Wigfrid's shield is op

[chirsg]

11 minutes ago, Lardee said:

I actually agree with the OP to an extent.  Kiting Dragonfly is not easy. The window is tight and it takes practice to get the timing right.  It takes way less skill to block Dragonfly's hits with the shield vs kiting it the traditional way. 

The problem is that if what Arcwell said holds true, this tactic can only be used against 4 bosses.  The rest of them just hit too fast or have minions that you have to deal with.  So overall, I don't see an issue with the way the shield is.

16 gold, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt.

[Catuna_]

its funny that this is the character of which im able to afk dragonfly with by putting my pet rock on my attack key... it's cheaper on the gold too...

 

[Antynomity]

The snurtle shell is already a very underused and underpowered item due to it being a bodyslot item, losing a ton of durability if blocking any attack of any boss due to how much damage they do and because of how damn inconvenient it is to farm. The shield which is a hand slot item, not only outclasses the shell, but also the shield of terror just because it doesnt even take damage when blocking, like where tf did any sort of balancing go?

34 minutes ago, chirsg said:

16 gold, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt.

Snurtle shells:

4 hours ago, somethin said:

It has been... 10 years? of Dfly existing in DST. She's not a a very hard boss, just annoyingly tanky with simple kiting patterns. Why are we using Dfly as measurement of difficulty at this point...

DST didn't even exist for 10 years, I wish the wilting dragonfly from uncomp mode was added so people experienced the true 'annoyance' of their base getting burnt down by a fiery fly

[chirsg]

snurtle shells don't have a cooldown, don't have a limit on defense and come with a camouflage perk where enemies leave you alone when you're hidden for long enough. 

 

2 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

The snurtle shell is already a very underused and underpowered item due to it being a bodyslot item, losing a ton of durability if blocking any attack of any boss due to how much damage they do and because of how damn inconvenient it is to farm. The shield which is a hand slot item, not only outclasses the shell, but also the shield of terror just because it doesnt even take damage when blocking, like where tf did any sort of balancing go?

Snurtle shells:

false equivalency. 

 

If you want the rond nerfed, say it should be nerfed.

 

It's an overvalued item anyway. No skin off my back if it does get nerfed. I'm just amazed at the anti Wigfrid brigade. 

[Antynomity]

Just now, chirsg said:

snurtle shells don't have a cooldown, don't have a limit on defense and come with a camouflage perk where enemies leave you alone when you're hidden for long enough. 

 

false equivalency. 

 

If you want the rond nerfed, say it should be nerfed.

 

It's an overvalued item anyway. No skin off my back if it does get nerfed. I'm just amazed at the anti Wigfrid brigade. 

Good luck farming snurtle shells to have enough for the Dfly fight compared to rushing ruins, getting a mountain of gold and never running out of Ronds. More time and resource EfFiCiEnT than the former.

[chirsg]

1 minute ago, Antynomity said:

Good luck farming snurtle shells to have enough for the Dfly fight compared to rushing ruins, getting a mountain of gold and never running out of Ronds. More time and resource EfFiCiEnT than the former.

I will just use a hambat and battle helm, tyvm. 

[grm9]

9 hours ago, goatt said:

That “not working” version would be about as op as Wurt’s merm army.
 

3 Rönd shields is way more op than Wurt’s merms if 3 is enough to kill dragonfly without high skill.

Sorry, I fail to see your point. “Still need multiple”, but how many, 4? That’s one night worth of beef shaving and 1 trip of PK.

The cost is trivia compared to other methods (like recent willow power), Especially since we can calculate the supposed “fair” cost, which is probably 10 times or 20 times more expensive, as farming shells are extremely timing consuming and labor intensive.

why do you even need shells if you can kite, ham bat costs 2 catcoons, 0.5 of a pig house and two twigs and you can do the fight much faster using it 

10 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

...

 

This is unrealistic and highly unreasonable.

 

 

10 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

flute still uses durability and kiting requires more skill.

shields also lose durability and you can use one football/battle helm to tank the 4 hits that happen after dfly flies back to you to spend as many flute uses as someone using a shield, is it that bad that one specific character has a niche item that allows you to kill two specific bosses using more resources and more slowly in comparison to most other common knowledge strats with it's only advantage being that you don't need to learn to count up to 6 

[Jakepeng99]

13 minutes ago, grm9 said:

shields also lose durability

Only when you attack with it. Only 4 for dragon fly as example vs needing a hambat, healing and alot of armour.

27 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I will just use a hambat and battle helm, tyvm. 

If you can afford battle helms, you can afford shields. 

33 minutes ago, chirsg said:

false equivalency. 

They are used for the same thing, little use them for the camoflage aspect. We are comparing their boss tanking abilities.

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

16 gold, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt.

No offence, but these comparisons show tons of hypocrisy. They cost the same as battle helms, but replace stone with 4 wool. The shields are not only infinite durability helms, but also a strong enough weapon.

[grm9]

5 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Only when you attack with it. Only 4 for dragon fly as example vs needing a hambat, healing and alot of armour

wigfrid heals herself and it's just one battle helm if you at least try to kite 

[somethin]

45 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

I wish the wilting dragonfly from uncomp mode was added so people experienced the true 'annoyance' of their base getting burnt down by a fiery fly

The og dragonfly in solo already did that every summer. I don't need an over bloat mod with weird mechanics to do that job

[chirsg]

17 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

No offence, but these comparisons show tons of hypocrisy. They cost the same as battle helms, but replace stone with 4 wool. The shields are not only infinite durability helms, but also a strong enough weapon.

how much do battle ronds cost?

[Antynomity]

16 minutes ago, somethin said:

The og dragonfly in solo already did that every summer. I don't need an over bloat mod with weird mechanics to do that job

Yes... You do... And when you get those mechanics... You'll thank me for the eternal happiness they will grant you. Also that mechanic isn't even weird but go off lmao.

[shaurun]

7 hours ago, Well-met said:

it's odd that it doesn't lose durability on block.

it's also odd that its damage isn't axe damage.

You are looking for it to be useless 

If it would have damage like an axe, nobody would want to fight with it. Switching weapons might me one of usage options but there's a cooldown not allowing to use shield block immediately adter you put it on. And this coolwon won't be removed since if it would, we'd have 2 shields swap spam. So shield should have some damage do we viable. 

As for durability loss, shield is intended to be a shield. So game encourages player to block with it (no durability loss) and disencorages from fighting with it (since there's durability loss),

[grm9]

16 minutes ago, shaurun said:

And this coolwon won't be removed since if it would, we'd have 2 shields swap spam

add cd to all shields in inventory after a block instead of adding it after equipping one 

[shaurun]

23 minutes ago, grm9 said:

add cd to all shields in inventory after a block instead of adding it after equipping one 

Yep that's nice idea for cooldown mechanic change. But still many players find it difficult to change equipment during battle. Plus shield would take another item slot. Which means if it's damage would be too low, a lot of people will simply refuse using shield. And you should also keep in mind that in order to block the incoming attack you should be time-perfect.

[Picklesaurus]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Only when you attack with it. Only 4 for dragon fly as example vs needing a hambat, healing and alot of armour.

If you can afford battle helms, you can afford shields. 

No offence, but these comparisons show tons of hypocrisy. They cost the same as battle helms, but replace stone with 4 wool. The shields are not only infinite durability helms, but also a strong enough weapon.

 

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

how much do battle ronds cost?

I'm far from a really good player and even I don't see why I would craft 4 Battle ronds  instead of crafting one hambat and two Battle helmets like I did in the video and the second Battle helmet was just for safety since I ended up not using it. Even if you make mistakes like I did Wig doesn't need healing for this fight if you are using walls.

I'm a bit lost on this thread, can someone explain to me why the shield is really good? It seems like a fun item, but I don't see myself using it, it deals less damage and is more expensive considering Wig's other options that have been in the game since forever.

[grm9]

11 minutes ago, shaurun said:

Yep that's nice idea for cooldown mechanic change. But still many players find it difficult to change equipment during battle. Plus shield would take another item slot. Which means if it's damage would be too low, a lot of people will simply refuse using shield. And you should also keep in mind that in order to block the incoming attack you should be time-perfect

i didn't mean implementing this as a compensation for the nerf that someone else suggested, i meant making the cd work that way without changing anything else 

[shaurun]

13 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i didn't mean implementing this as a compensation for the nerf that someone else suggested, i meant making the cd work that way without changing anything else 

Idea for cd fix is really good. You know, I surprise sometimes how a complex issue in my head turns into easy-peasy by someone else)

[Mysterious box]

29 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

 

I'm far from a really good player and even I don't see why I would craft 4 Battle ronds  instead of crafting one hambat and two Battle helmets like I did in the video and the second Battle helmet was just for safety since I ended up not using it. Even if you make mistakes like I did Wig doesn't need healing for this fight if you are using walls.

I'm a bit lost on this thread, can someone explain to me why the shield is really good? It seems like a fun item, but I don't see myself using it, it deals less damage and is more expensive considering Wig's other options that have been in the game since forever.

So the shield isn't really that good because you performed a near perfect kite of dfly a boss the average player struggles to kite properly? I fail to see how one justifies the other in any way.

[arubaro]

44 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

can someone explain to me why the shield is really good?

because someone is watching videos of experience players instead of playing the game and die in ridiculous ways

[Picklesaurus]

44 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So the shield isn't really that good because you performed a near perfect kite of dfly a boss the average player struggles to kite properly? 

I don't find the shield really good no, I find it somewhere between good and just okay. Also it is not near perfect kite, look at 4:45 and you'll see me being hit like a truck is driving over me and I got hit other times in the video which isn't the point because even if I got hit double of what I did, it would just take a second Battle helmet... compared to 4 Battle ronds on a speedrunner that is much much better than me and everybody in the thread outside of guille.

44 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I fail to see how one justifies the other in any way.

I fail to see how a more expensive approach to the fight that can be executed by an averange player that is less skillfull in kiting and using a combat character is OP like the thread suggests.

[black hole]

12 hours ago, goatt said:

不知道为什么。当我的论点是关于成本时，这个线程下的每个人似乎都在争论效用和功能。

使用 Rönd 的油箱成本为 0。这就是为什么它是op。

If you ever try to block more than two shadow creatures with a shield, you wouldn't consider the shield "OP". The shield can only perfectly block a very small number of bosses, such as the Dragonfly. Unfortunately, some people still insist on calling the shield "OP", but the fact is, the shield has very little effect on many small creatures, and it's very easy to make blocking mistakes. There are not many bosses that are suitable for shield use, and it is not difficult to fight them by positioning yourself properly. Moreover, by positioning yourself well, you can use a stronger weapon instead of the low damage shield.

[kevindaze]

Nah if u really play wigfrid u'll know it's not that good. Wasting 16 gold + 12 beefalo wool just for fighting dfly, when u can just face tank it with 4 battle helmets+2thulecite armor or 2 marble suit using hambat. And it only work on certain bosses like t3 rook and dfly which it complete lose it purpose after u got bone armor. It's not op believe me, I never go for it in my wigfrid run.

If you doubt it, go play wigfrid yourself and you'll find it out.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Picklesaurus said:

I don't find the shield really good no, I find it somewhere between good and just okay. Also it is not near perfect kite, look at 4:45 and you'll see me being hit like a truck is driving over me and I got hit other times in the video which isn't the point because even if I got hit double of what I did, it would just take a second Battle helmet... compared to 4 Battle ronds on a speedrunner that is much much better than me and everybody in the thread outside of guille.

So your implying that the way the speed runner used the shield required a high level of skill? In what way please explain?

1 hour ago, Picklesaurus said:

I fail to see how a more expensive approach to the fight that can be executed by an averange player that is less skillfull in kiting and using a combat character is OP like the thread suggests.

While I don't think it's op I also agree with people saying it shouldn't be free either simply make each hit take around 30% of the durability that would be lost from getting hit when guarding. For example say you blocked a hit that did 100 damage with my suggestion the shield would only take 30 damage to it's durability.

[arubaro]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

So your implying that the way the speed runner used the shield required a high level of skill? In what way please explain?

While I don't think it's op I also agree with people saying it shouldn't be free either simply make each hit take around 30% of the durability that would be lost from getting hit when guarding. For example say you blocked a hit that did 100 damage with my suggestion the shield would only take 30 damage to it's durability.

then would be better to simply kite and not lose durability...