Wigfrid's shield is op

[Mysterious box]

Just now, arubaro said:

then would be better to simply kite and not lose durability...

Well if your good enough to kite or near perfectly kite why are you using the shield in the first place?

[SapoLover]

Few are the situations in which blocking is better than kiting. Only scenario that comes to my mind is bishops and rooks from the ruins that are very difficult and slow to kite. Shield is good, but certainly not op.

Spoiler

No walls, no panflute. I had fun trying this, shield makes the Enraged Dragonfly timing not so difficult.

[arubaro]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Well if your good enough to kite or near perfectly kite why are you using the shield in the first place?

fun? a word that is hated in this forum by many thinking everything is op and non challenging but annoying stuff is needed when they didnt even have beat the entire content

[Mysterious box]

Just now, arubaro said:

fun? a word that is hated in this forum by many thinking everything is op and non challenging but annoying stuff is needed when they didnt even beated the entire content

It's really tiring how lazy the fun defense is does everything have to be so blatantly unbalanced for anything to be fun? Does the game become unbearable if anything at all has a cost? If so c_supergodemode() and c_freecrafting() are waiting for you if you play on pc have all the fun you want.

[kevindaze]

Why people keep thinking shield is op??? Not only it can only hit 150 times and got lower damage than hambat, but also it lose durability while getting hit. Not to mention that it's expensive af .Even I got 200 gold in first autumn, I won't even consider farming it just for dfly fight, since I can just use marble suit to face tank it. Jeez, just go play Wigfrid and you know shield is not that good

[arubaro]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It's really tiring how lazy the fun defense is does everything have to be so blatantly unbalanced for anything to be fun? Does the game become unbearable if anything at all has a cost? If so c_supergodemode() and c_freecrafting() are waiting for you if you play on pc have all the fun you want.

you might think that is fun, you might even want to use them to defeat all bosses for once 

as you said, why would someone use the shield if they know kitting? if it has even higher cost why i would bother? isnt op, you might think is op for whatever reason without even testing it

i dont see myself wasting that much whool and gold to have a mediocre weapon and a unnecessary block skill. I might craft it for some fights to make things different

rather than a higher cost they can make it more skill dependent or to prize skil like making the damage boost applied if you timed well, but increasing the durability lost makes no sense

is like willow's kame, i wont have always +40 embers just to kill everything with it. I might try to have >10 embers so i can use few spells like the fire ball and, in case of hound wave, despatch them quickly. Is the funny thing, people complain about stuff they dont know so they end up complaining about the wrong things. To keep with willow's moon fire, people complain about it killing spiders or having a 750 damage (less than dark sword) against bosses when the truth is that is only useful to deal with hounds and worms... complain about that spell making that threads easy but not about dealing grindy mediocre dps against a treeguard...

same goes for the shield. People complaining about a speed runner defeating DF at a higher cost and using walls but, if they even fought DF, they should know that wigfrid kills her without wasting food with a hambat and using less resources because has cheap helmets (which last longer with the new skill tree perks). The shield is fun because rewards using it well, that is all, is wigfrid's item, she wont be less dumb for not having it

why not suggesting ways of making the game harder? why not creating posts to complain about how wigfrid's downside is being treat?? no, that requires thinking and knowing about the game. Better complaining about a niche expensive item being fun, a spell dealing single target mediocre damage instead of looking to nerf cost or aoe damage, complain about hail not damaging mobs instead of suggesting how to make it more challenging... and a HUGE etc

are always the same dumb arguments arround here... people fearing the game becoming trivial instead of suggesting ways of making it more fun and challenging. And always you can see how the same users that complain for the same silly things are players who need more experience and for that they think certain stuff is challenging when is not or certain stuff is op when isnt even worth the time expend on it

when i was a noob i though wortox was op and you can see how other noobs think the same

is always the same trent. I really hope klei could deliver a real hard rift mode, not the easy stuff we are getting so these part of the community suffers playing the game, if they even could reach rift content by their own which i doubt, and see them asking for nerfs

6 minutes ago, kevindaze said:

Jeez, just go play Wigfrid and you know shield is not that good

you are asking alot

[grm9]

51 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

While I don't think it's op I also agree with people saying it shouldn't be free either simply make each hit take around 30% of the durability that would be lost from getting hit when guarding. For example say you blocked a hit that did 100 damage with my suggestion the shield would only take 30 damage to it's durability

what's the point of nerfing something that allows you to learn less but requires you to play as a specific character, spend skill points, get more materials and makes the fight take more time in comparison to strats that you can do independently of the character you're playing as? I bet if gunpowder was added today, people would use c_give("gunpowder", 80) and ask klei to nerf it because no skill required, very quick fights and the material gathering part isn't a thing because it either wasn't mentioned in the video that they watched or they never tested it when playing without console commands                                                        

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, arubaro said:

you might think is op for whatever reason without even testing it

So your going to just ignore me saying I don't think the shield is op or the fact I've been sending bug reports for this beta I've supposedly not tested? I guess it's easier to try to discredit what people are saying by assuming whatever makes your point sound better no?

 

10 minutes ago, arubaro said:

as you said, why would someone use the shield if they know kitting? if it has even higher cost why i would bother?

Because it's safer?

 

11 minutes ago, arubaro said:

rather than a higher cost they can make it more skill dependent or to prize skil like making the damage boost applied if you timed well, but increasing the durability lost makes no sense

It makes no sense to make a shield take reduced damage to it's durability while it completely protects your hp when you block?

12 minutes ago, arubaro said:

i dont see myself wasting that much whool and gold to have a mediocre weapon and a unnecessary block skill. I might craft it for some fights to make things different

Man I didn't realize gold and wool were such expensive and rare resources and that tentacle spikes were such horrible weapons.

14 minutes ago, arubaro said:

same goes for the shield. People complaining about a speed runner defeating DF

See people keep bringing up the speed runner part but I'll have to once again say are you saying it takes a speed runner level of skill to use the shield?

The shield doesn't suddenly become worthless because it doesn't make blocking completely free that's just horrible logic.

12 minutes ago, grm9 said:

what's the point of nerfing something that allows you to learn less but requires you to play as a specific character, spend skill points, get more materials and spend more time on the fight in comparison to strats that you can do independently of the character you're playing as?

S-a-f-e-t-y
 

15 minutes ago, grm9 said:

I bet if gunpowder was added today, people would use c_give("gunpowder", 80) and ask klei to nerf it because no skill required, very quick fights and the material gathering part isn't a thing because it either wasn't mentioned in the video that they watched or they never tested it without console commands 

Interesting is the implication that gold and beefalo wool take as long as gunpowder to collect? I must be better than I thought!

[grm9]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

S-a-f-e-t-y

i've already told you how it's compensated

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Interesting is the implication that gold and beefalo wool take as long as gunpowder to collect? I must be better than I thought!

nah, that's more about getting 100 embers to kill AG using shadow fire spam (assuming that all shadow fire lines hit AG, otherwise much more), getting enough shields for dfly still requires more materials than a single battle helm and a ham bat that you can keep using after the fight so it's just inferior and some people still keep saying that it has "no cost" even though you need to attack using the shield or otherwise you won't be able to block the next attack in time, so you need to spend durability anyway, meaning that you still need to get materials for enough shields 

[arubaro]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So your going to just ignore me saying I don't think the shield is op or the fact I've been sending bug reports for this beta I've supposedly not tested? I guess it's easier to try to discredit what people are saying by assuming whatever makes your point sound better no?

 

Because it's safer?

 

It makes no sense to make a shield take reduced damage to it's durability while it completely protects your hp when you block?

Man I didn't realize gold and wool were such expensive and rare resources and that tentacle spikes were such horrible weapons.

See people keep bringing up the speed runner part but I'll have to once again say are you saying it takes a speed runner level of skill to use the shield?

The shield doesn't suddenly become worthless because it doesn't make blocking completely free that's just horrible logic.

S-a-f-e-t-y
 

Interesting is the implication that gold and beefalo wool take as long as gunpowder to collect? I must be better than I thought!

you dont need safety as wigfrid and less when it cost more than few helmets. Isnt an expensive tool but you already need to waste time doing stuff that, even an unskilled player, wont need because wigfrid is absurd

you neither need speed run skill level to count to 6 behind a stone wall

[black hole]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

So your implying that the way the speed runner used the shield required a high level of skill? In what way please explain?

While I don't think it's op I also agree with people saying it shouldn't be free either simply make each hit take around 30% of the durability that would be lost from getting hit when guarding. For example say you blocked a hit that did 100 damage with my suggestion the shield would only take 30 damage to it's durability.

In that case, I'd better use a kite, because that way the durability loss of the helmet due to mistakes is much less than that of the shield. Additionally, the helmet is only half the price of the shield, has higher durability, and allows for the use of a better weapon in hand.

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

you dont need safety as wigfrid and less when it cost more than few helmets. Isnt an expensive tool but you already need to waste time doing stuff that, even an unskilled player, wont need because wigfrid is absurd

you neither need speed run skill level to count to 6 behind a stone wall

If that's the case why do unskilled Wigfrids die to bosses like dragonfly? I think your underestimating how hard kiting is for the average player.

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i've already told you how it's compensated

No you listed it's unlock requirements and explained how a weapon that deals less damage makes a fight take longer those aren't compensations if they were I'd ask for Walter's slingshot to start dealing 100 damage per shot while firing a bit faster.

 

13 minutes ago, grm9 said:

, getting enough shields for dfly still requires more materials than a single battle helm and a ham bat

Cool didn't realize the average Wigfrid player can easily beat dfly with just 1 battle helm and a ham bat surely we're not overestimating the average player at all here.

 

15 minutes ago, grm9 said:

so it's just inferior and some people still keep saying that it has "no cost" even though you need to attack using the shield or otherwise you won't be able to block the next attack in time, so you need to spend durability anyway, meaning that you still need to get materials for enough shields 

It's a weapon so it uses durability to attack and shields are cheap to make I fail to see the problem here.

6 minutes ago, black hole said:

In that case, I'd better use a kite, because that way the durability loss of the helmet due to mistakes is much less than that of the shield. Additionally, the helmet is only half the price of the shield, has higher durability, and allows for the use of a better weapon in hand.

I feel like the entire point is being missed here the shield shouldn't be better than kiting only safer.

[arubaro]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If that's the case why do unskilled Wigfrids die to bosses like dragonfly? I think your underestimating how hard kiting is for the average player

and i think you overestimate how good these noobs will block her atacks

so basically this is about noobs defeating a single boss in less tries?? any experience player would use this item for other thing than fun

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

No you listed it's unlock requirements and explained how a weapon that deals less damage makes a fight take longer those aren't compensations if they were I'd ask for Walter's slingshot to start dealing 100 damage per shot while firing a bit faster

they are, it was always like that, you could spend more resources and learn less or vice-versa 

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Cool didn't realize the average Wigfrid player can easily beat dfly with just 1 battle helm and a ham bat surely we're not overestimating the average player at all here

what prevents them from learning?

[arubaro]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

what prevents them from learning?

apparently they can only learn how to block a single boss but not counting to 6

[Antynomity]

19 minutes ago, arubaro said:

apparently they can only learn how to block a single boss but not counting to 6

It's incredible to me how much the balance of this game is disregarded nowadays, just because something fun or 'bad in my eyes' doesnt mean it is balanced in comparison to items of similar nature.

[black hole]

22 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

它是一种武器，所以它使用耐久度进行攻击，而盾牌很便宜，我在这里看不到问题。

我觉得这里错过了整个要点：盾牌不应该比风筝更好，只是更安全。

It's very cheap, but the helmet is even cheaper than it, and the ham bat is also cheaper than it. There's a difference between cheap and really cheap. Moreover, the kite already has better defense than the shield. Haven't you noticed that the kite can carry more powerful weapons? Isn't higher DPS and faster boss fights a reflection of the kite being better than the shield? Do we have to reach a point where players who know how to use the kite don't need the shield at all in order to say that the kite is better than the shield?

[arubaro]

16 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

 

which item of similar nature there are? why is unbalanced when deals less damage than other weapons and is unique to a unbalanced character so it serves 0 purpose? i dont see an scenario where i would wanto to change my skill tree to use this item instead of kitting normally 

the game's difficulty wont drop because this item. Every character is getting flat stat boost from skill trees, we should ask for challenging stuff not ask for cutting options 

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, black hole said:

It's very cheap, but the helmet is even cheaper than it, and the ham bat is also cheaper than it.

Yep but I don't remember them having a block function.

 

1 minute ago, black hole said:

There's a difference between cheap and really cheap.

Not really.

2 minutes ago, black hole said:

Moreover, the kite already has better defense than the shield.

As it should as it requires more effort on the player's part.

3 minutes ago, black hole said:

Haven't you noticed that the kite can carry more powerful weapons? Isn't higher DPS and faster boss fights a reflection of the kite being better than the shield?

Have you noticed in many games a tank can't hit harder than a dps or evasion dps character ever wonder why that is?

5 minutes ago, black hole said:

Do we have to reach a point where players who know how to use the kite don't need the shield at all in order to say that the kite is better than the shield?

I mean I don't see what's stopping people from using the shield just because it'll have durability on guards is the free nature really that important?

36 minutes ago, arubaro said:

and i think you overestimate how good these noobs will block her atacks

so basically this is about noobs defeating a single boss in less tries?? any experience player would use this item for other thing than fun

I feel like at this point your not even trying to make a good argument.

 

38 minutes ago, grm9 said:

what prevents them from learning?

You tell me better yet why not just go on a bunch of servers and ask if everyone's beaten all the bosses then ask them why haven't they and are they stupid or something? Rather if you guys are so good that the shield is worthless why do you care so much? You guys clearly don't need it right? 

[arubaro]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

i feel like at this point your not even trying to make a good argument

im not the one who assumes that a noob player can use effectively the shield(and organise their time to get whool which you can only amass at night without wasting tons of time) but cant count to 6 to kite with a character that doesn't even need to kite with the right equipment 

also your complains completely seems to be focused on noobs being able to use a niche item to defeat the easiest raid boss

[grm9]

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

ask if everyone's beaten all the bosses

not all, two, all other bosses attack too often to block all of their attack using the shield and kiting shadow rook doesn't require a brain, so it's one boss that almost everyone who survived at least until winter on their own have killed    

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Rather if you guys are so good that the shield is worthless why do you care so much

because it's possible that klei will remove the shield cd on equip and instead make it shared between all shields in inventory and possibly slightly decrease it's cd so it's useful for anything other than dfly (obviously not all bosses but idk, at least FW melee attacks maybe) so it'll actually be slightly better than kiting if you can swap weapons in time to parry, attack using a better weapon and repeat, which would be fine because it's restricted to a single character that has to spend skill points to get the shield and kiting isn't harder        

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, arubaro said:

im not the one who assumes that a noob player can use effectively the shield

I'm not assuming they can but your not gonna tell me it's harder for them to grasp than kiting no? Also I wasn't focusing on noobs but the average player but way to try to change facts again. 

 

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

organise their time to get whool which you can only amass at night without wasting tons of time) but cant count to 6 to kite with a character that doesn't even need to kite with the right equipment 

There is no possible way your trying to compare shaving a beefalo with kiting a raid boss while arguing in good faith no I refuse to believe it just stop I mean it seriously this is just hilarious at this point.

5 minutes ago, arubaro said:

also your complains completely seems to be focused on noobs being able to use a niche item to defeat the easiest raid boss

average player = noob I guess does everyone who plays dst just play for afew hours and never again on average? I'd assume Klei would go broke if that were the case. Also there are plenty of easier bosses than dfly

Just now, grm9 said:

not all, two, all other bosses attack too often to block all of their attack using the shield and kiting shadow rook doesn't require a brain, so it's one boss 

So because you can't block every single attack at all times the shield is invalid in any other fight?

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because it's possible that klei will remove the shield cd on equip and instead make it shared between all shields in inventory and possibly slightly decrease it's cd so it's useful for anything other than dfly (obviously not bosses but idk, at least FW melee attacks maybe) so it'll actually be slightly better than kiting if you can swap weapons in time to parry, attack using a better weapon and repeat, which would be fine because it's restricted to a single character that has to spend skill points to get the shield and kiting isn't harder 

Have you ever thought of...now this might sound crazy...kiting in between the times your block is on cooldown?

[black hole]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

没有。

The helmet costs two gold, the shield costs four gold. Is there no difference, or do you think everyone starts the game with unlimited gold to use?

 

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

你有没有注意到，在许多游戏中，坦克的打击力度不比dps或闪避dps角色重，有没有想过为什么会这样？

我的意思是，我看不出是什么阻止人们使用盾牌，仅仅因为它在防护装置上有耐久性，自由的性质真的那么重要吗？

The strength of tanks is naturally not as strong as DPS. Since many games are like this, you should think about why. It's because tanks are just optional, and kiting can also replace them. But what can replace DPS? Anyway, Wigfrid cannot match the DPS of Wolfgang, which is why DPS is more important than tanks. Moreover, the reason for preventing people from using shields is very simple. You try to use a shield to block more than two shadow creatures and you will know. Don't keep talking about the Df. "Don't Starve" is not a game that requires us to fight the Df. If you want to express an opinion, then you better experience the complete starting process of Wigfrid and then speak. Otherwise, you're just purely theorizing.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Have you ever thought of...now this might sound crazy...kiting in between the times your block is on cooldown?

that would mean you need to keep using the shield the entire time because otherwise it'll be on cooldown when you equip it to block an attack 

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So because you can't block every single attack at all times the shield is invalid in any other fight?

why would you use it if it has less damage than a ham bat and you need to keep it equipped at all times to block 

[arubaro]

29 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

There is no possible way your trying to compare shaving a beefalo with kiting a raid boss while arguing in good faith no I refuse to believe it just stop I mean it seriously this is just hilarious at this point.

im comparing getting few gold and rocks to getting gold and rocks. For noobs organising their time is hard, they waste a lot of time. Not saying this is something deal breaker but people tent to asume some stuff is as cheaper as other

for a experience player there isn't much difference between both even when i dont see myself going to herd to shave them to make such niche item. Like there is no difference between using this item or doing the fight faster with a dark sword and counting to 6 or 7... i dont understand the complains

because is niche, isn't like the shield works on every scenario

is ridiculous to have this discussion but lately the forum only have ridiculous discussions 

and yes, players who has problems killing DF are noobs. Average player in mobas are noobs like the average player in this game are noobs, nothing wrong with that