hot takes Your Dont Starve Together Hot Takes

[RozeMeteor]

9 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

Oh, we were using Dry Racks, it's just that it was the middle of spring, so it was taking forever for stuff to turn into Small Jerky! (I should have probably gotten more meat to get actual Jerky instead of Small Jerky though. I put like, 5 Pig Houses near our base and I basically never killed them for Meat.)

I should try fishing at some point, I never did any fishing whatsoever, and definitely no cave fishing... Sur'n'turf does sound like a great meal for sure, I'll try to remember the recipe! It's a lot of heal and a lot of sanity!

*looks it up a bit* Well, Eel is in the Ruins, which I never went to, so it's something I'll probably have to leave for later, but I like the idea of using 1 Monster Meat + 3 Freshwater Fishes to make it. Sounds like a solid way of getting some extra HP-recovering food. I'll definitely keep this one in mind!

Oh, Fishsticks also sounds nice. It's essentially a Pieroggi that doesn't require vegetables. I can certainly appreciate something like that, since neither me nor my friends know how to farm, so our main source of vegetables are stuff like blue mushrooms from caves, which are a bit annoying to get. I like this recipe too!

And I certainly should try WX-78 at one point, since the thingy with circuits sounds fun to play with... For now I'm still experimenting with Wigfrid, and then I think I'll try Willow next, since I wanna play with her Skill Tree... WX-78 is probably the next one on the list though, since it sounds quite interesting to play with too!

There are a lot of characters to experiment with though... But well, that's part of the fun, I guess~

there are ponds where you can find toadstool around the caves those have eels on, sometimes they spawn close to the sinkholes

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

On 5/15/2024 at 5:16 PM, grm9 said:

i did? it's fine for people to stack damage to kill a boss, nerfing getting celestial portal, making volt goat jellies, swapping to wolfgang and waiting for spring would make about as much sense as nerfing gunpowder

they still could since some people seem to still think that warly is good

I mean, he is "good" as a switch character, more damage is more damage, specially in long playthroughs, speeding up the 20 cc kills you are doing for mushlights by 3x is really worthwhile, specially with wicker and wolf or Wanda (I agree he's kinda bad alone though)

[GetNerfedOn]

4 minutes ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

I mean, he is "good" as a switch character, more damage is more damage, specially in long playthroughs, speeding up the 20 cc kills you are doing for mushlights by 3x is really worthwhile, specially with wicker and wolf or Wanda (I agree he's kinda bad alone though)

He's not just kinda bad alone he IS very bad alone. Being severely limited in diet forces a radical, unwelcome change from normal gameplay.

From observation, suggestions i have seen exacerbate or fail to amend how bad Warly remains to be as a standalone character. 

There has to be some benefit to syaing as him and I hope Winona's current direction with the skilltree translates to Warly's potential new kit. 

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

2 hours ago, GetNerfedOn said:

He's not just kinda bad alone he IS very bad alone. Being severely limited in diet forces a radical, unwelcome change from normal gameplay.

From observation, suggestions i have seen exacerbate or fail to amend how bad Warly remains to be as a standalone character. 

There has to be some benefit to syaing as him and I hope Winona's current direction with the skilltree translates to Warly's potential new kit. 

I mean, his hunger management is no different than most other characters, meaty stew spam it is, hp is easily gotten from many sources, like the ones wormwood can use, tents, bat bat, ext, and sanity managment adds a fun challenge, I'm not saying doing the most damage in game as solo and multiplayer in certain circumstances is that good, but with how easily his downsides are ignored, I see it as a win, but I agree that he needs a skill tree to get people who aren't as experienced in the game to be able to also enjoy him

 

[Frosty_Mentos]

Klei never exactly had a firm idea of where they want to continue off this game, thus resulting in a lot of halfbaked content with their really short update spans making both the ideas scattered and much unfulfilled. Their model was so flawed it likely could have been their detriment if noone was interested anymore in the game. The times they put a lot of time and silence into new updates and events (forge, gorge, long intermission breaks(also pandemic happened so that wasn't fun for anyone ever)) were the times when they had something cooking big and flushed out more than ever and it was very brilliant on what they did.

Thus we got so many new concepts like Planar damage, boss reworks, character skill trees, etc. that are going somewhere or nowhere yet and we can't be sure about it which is causing people to panic due to information depravation on where any of this is going and Klei isn't exactly good at conveying thoughts when it comes to them needing to keep a secret and spoilers on the content they release.

[arubaro]

4 hours ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

I mean, he is "good" as a switch character, more damage is more damage, specially in long playthroughs, speeding up the 20 cc kills you are doing for mushlights by 3x is really worthwhile, specially with wicker and wolf or Wanda (I agree he's kinda bad alone though)

 

4 hours ago, GetNerfedOn said:

He's not just kinda bad alone he IS very bad alone. Being severely limited in diet forces a radical, unwelcome change from normal gameplay.

From observation, suggestions i have seen exacerbate or fail to amend how bad Warly remains to be as a standalone character. 

There has to be some benefit to syaing as him and I hope Winona's current direction with the skilltree translates to Warly's potential new kit. 

He is fun which is important. He dienside that "forces a radical welcome change from normal gameplay " is what makes him appealing for a lot of people

If you want to play without his downside or wanna a character with more power with less effort there is a good variety of characters

Some people dont want to play with """good""" characters but enjoy making an effort while playing a survival game instead of mindless play with staff like wolfgang or wigfrid 

[GetNerfedOn]

4 hours ago, mmmmmmmmmmm said:

I mean, his hunger management is no different than most other characters, meaty stew spam it is, hp is easily gotten from many sources, like the ones wormwood can use, tents, bat bat, ext, and sanity managment adds a fun challenge, I'm not saying doing the most damage in game as solo and multiplayer in certain circumstances is that good, but with how easily his downsides are ignored, I see it as a win, but I agree that he needs a skill tree to get people who aren't as experienced in the game to be able to also enjoy him

I'd argue that you don't ignore Warly's downsides per se and just learn to play around them. The early game is most critical as you scramble to setup whatever main source of food and healing you'll be relying on and get a mass amount of that - and even then you still have to plan your meals around your food timer.

Apart from that, being locked out of many good sources of food like Jerky, Raw Honey, Butterfly Wings, cooked Potatoes, Tomatoes and Eggplants, and mainstay sanity options such as Green Caps and Cacti is a change most characters won't have to struggle with.

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

He is fun which is important. He dienside that "forces a radical welcome change from normal gameplay " is what makes him appealing for a lot of people

If you want to play without his downside or wanna a character with more power with less effort there is a good variety of characters

Some people dont want to play with """good""" characters but enjoy making an effort while playing a survival game instead of mindless play with staff like wolfgang or wigfrid 

I won't contest that Warly's fun to play - I've had the most fun getting back into DST playing as Warly in years, this year.

But the bottom line is that there's no benefit to staying as Warly and dealing with his unique, complicated gameplay as opposed to just spicing foods and swapping to another character with less challenging gameplay. There has to be more reward to the fun gameplay loop that Warly provides than just spices, and some of that can be achieved by making spices have functionality exclusive to Warly alone.  

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, GetNerfedOn said:

I'd argue that you don't ignore Warly's downsides per se and just learn to play around them. The early game is most critical as you scramble to setup whatever main source of food and healing you'll be relying on and get a mass amount of that - and even then you still have to plan your meals around your food timer.

Apart from that, being locked out of many good sources of food like Jerky, Raw Honey, Butterfly Wings, cooked Potatoes, Tomatoes and Eggplants, and mainstay sanity options such as Green Caps and Cacti is a change most characters won't have to struggle with

you don't need sanity food for anything except FW and maybe daywalker, you can just keep eating meaty stews infinitely and things that you've mentioned were never good except maybe honey since bee hives are quick to kill, biggest disadvantage is having to waste some time to get meat during early game instead of berries or carrots and that's it

[GetNerfedOn]

29 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you don't need sanity food for anything except FW and maybe daywalker, you can just keep eating meaty stews infinitely and things that you've mentioned were never good except maybe honey since bee hives are quick to kill, biggest disadvantage is having to waste some time to get meat during early game instead of berries or carrots and that's it

While I don't need sanity food, I'm certainly not skilled enough to want sanity food. and while i cannot claim to speak for them, I am sure that players who do not yet know how to optimize their gameplay as experts do and consider Sanity a serious threat can say the same.

Hence, while theoretically and optimally you don't need sanity food for anything except FW and maybe Daywalker, in practice access to sanity control is valued by most characters - being unable to rely on reliable sanity gain or decrease options is inconvenient, whether if you want to farm nightmares in a pinch or get out of insanity while fighting a boss to avoid getting swarmed.

However, I will concede that a Tam, Bedroll or Tent are adequate alternatives should you have enough hunger. Also, I've said this as a running gag on other places but bringing 5 taffy, 5 pumpkin cookies, 5 salsa, 5 mashed potato, 5 souffle, 5 ice cream, 5 jelly salad, 5 banana shake, and 5 daquiri among all the other things you have to bring to fight AFW *is hilarious. (And i've done it LMAO)

Further, I don't quite see what's not good about farmed food amassing tons of 20 hp heals per harvest, with further refinement into alternate sanity gains (and given you're playing warly you'll be getting some farmed food anyway as you work for spices), or a long lasting Jerky that can provide for all three stats, or for instance. Things aren't "never good" just because they aren't meta. I will only concede that they aren't the most effective options, but they are useful nonetheless.

Further, here's something I saw on discord about meaty stew:

While stew is effective, as the poster implies you'd run out of hunger prior to the food memory reset, necessitating consumption of other dishes to still bring out the maximum value of your stews. (Edit: Granted, I will cede that in the interim, you can substitute with other meta options like Bacon and Eggs and Meatballs and Honey Ham. but I would rather much still enjoy exploring the other dishes available than just the meta meat dishes.)

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, GetNerfedOn said:

Further, here's something I saw on discord about meaty stew:

While stew is effective, as the poster implies you'd run out of hunger prior to the food memory reset, necessitating consumption of other dishes to still bring out the maximum value of your stews

you can just wait until you'll get to 0 hunger and eat a meaty stew, then eat another after you reach 115 hunger and get to full hunger, that only wastes 5% of the amount of hunger that you'd get from 2 meaty stews if you wouldn't have ate the 2nd before the thing would've got reset

7 minutes ago, GetNerfedOn said:

While I don't need sanity food, I'm certainly not skilled enough to want sanity food. and while i cannot claim to speak for them, I am sure that players who do not yet know how to optimize their gameplay as experts do and consider Sanity a serious threat can say the same.

Hence, while theoretically and optimally you don't need sanity food for anything except FW and maybe Daywalker, in practice access to sanity control is valued by most characters - being unable to rely on reliable sanity gain or decrease options is inconvenient, whether if you want to farm nightmares in a pinch or get out of insanity while fighting a boss to avoid getting swarmed.

However, I will concede that a Tam, Bedroll or Tent are adequate alternatives should you have enough hunger

the point was that you can use shanter, enlightened crown and bone helm

8 minutes ago, GetNerfedOn said:

Also, I've said this as a running gag on other places but bringing 5 taffy, 5 pumpkin cookies, 5 salsa, 5 mashed potato, 5 souffle, 5 ice cream, 5 jelly salad, 5 banana shake, and 5 daquiri among all the other things you have to bring to fight AFW

idk how is this related

9 minutes ago, GetNerfedOn said:

Further, I don't quite see what's not good about farmed food amassing tons of 20 hp heals per harvest, with further refinement into alternate sanity gains (and given you're playing warly you'll be getting some farmed food anyway as you work for spices), or a long lasting Jerky that can provide for all three stats, or for instance. Things aren't "never good" just because they aren't meta. I will only concede that they aren't the most effective options, but they are useful nonetheless

not worth the time since you just get food passively from doing stuff and getting it on the way from berry bushes, spiders etc. and you get jellybeans and beefalo for hp and shanter and cactii for sanity, warly's spices are also not worth it except honey since even if you do farming, you could've got a lot of healing instead of garlic and 20% more damage from pepper isn't worth the time

[arubaro]

3 hours ago, GetNerfedOn said:

I'd argue that you don't ignore Warly's downsides per se and just learn to play around them. The early game is most critical as you scramble to setup whatever main source of food and healing you'll be relying on and get a mass amount of that - and even then you still have to plan your meals around your food timer.

Apart from that, being locked out of many good sources of food like Jerky, Raw Honey, Butterfly Wings, cooked Potatoes, Tomatoes and Eggplants, and mainstay sanity options such as Green Caps and Cacti is a change most characters won't have to struggle with.

I won't contest that Warly's fun to play - I've had the most fun getting back into DST playing as Warly in years, this year.

But the bottom line is that there's no benefit to staying as Warly and dealing with his unique, complicated gameplay as opposed to just spicing foods and swapping to another character with less challenging gameplay. There has to be more reward to the fun gameplay loop that Warly provides than just spices, and some of that can be achieved by making spices have functionality exclusive to Warly alone.  

Sometimes the reward is the downside... 

But i would love a making spice and thermal dish last longer on him

[Sesekriri]

Wendy is an incredibly boring character that I am never excited to have on the team. All she brings to the table is a sanity station worse than cactus, and the ability to easily farm hoards of medium mobs, which many other characters can do in more interesting ways (webber, wurt, winona). 

At least Wolfgang is unique in the sense he can work quickly and farm bosses better than anyone. 

On 10/28/2023 at 11:11 PM, b l a n k said:

I dislike the celestial portal, and the fact you can swap your character

coldest take out there

[Popian]

9 hours ago, GetNerfedOn said:

there's no benefit to staying as Warly and dealing with his unique, complicated gameplay as opposed to just spicing foods and swapping to another character with less challenging gameplay

There is the benefit of having more convenient access to his dishes and not having to worry about running out. There's a lot of value to be gained when sharing his food, except others tend to be more hesitant about consuming single-use buffs in everyday situations.

[Gotheran]

Hot takes? Alright, The dlc characters are pay to win with how over tuned thier abilities are without equivalent drawbacks to make playing them nuanced.

The current trajectory for the game is too action/combat focused

some of the updates like reap what you sow and character refreshes should be ported back to solo for better version parity so dst isnt the automatic default for people to reccommend because its "newer" or keeps recieving updates and to smooth out what klei obviously saw room for improvement on with the original mechanics

Summer needs an overhaul

Balance for solo or smaller groups is needed

Where's Wellington?

[Wormboi]

monster characters have the best skins

I think the way that boats work in DST is fine

 

[NPCMaxwell]

Charlie is too nice. Put Maxwell back on the thrown

(not a  suggestion at all! But that's what I always feel like since the new reign update.

Charlie fits the style of the DST gameplay and added lore more.

But I miss Maxwell's play-pretend of the sinister shadow king in control in contrast to his miserable appearance when you find his lair.)

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

dst is a really good game (contovertial ik)

the devs are doing a great job (really offensive to a lot of people, I am aware)

the game is going in a great direction (I promise this is not rage bait)

skill trees are good ideas (please don't kill me for such a harsh and different oppinion)

Klei  is the best indie and now non-indie game company out there, specially if compared to the guano piles most other companies are compared to it (I know, its a really specific and offensive oppinion)

[arubaro]

On 6/4/2024 at 3:37 AM, Gotheran said:

Alright, The dlc characters are pay to win with how over tuned thier abilities are without equivalent drawbacks to make playing them nuanced

Any dlc character beats most of the free ones. Also you can get them by playing few hours and some luck 

On 6/4/2024 at 3:37 AM, Gotheran said:

The current trajectory for the game is too action/combat focused

Agree. Atleast they try to add new weather effects, sadly arent good ones and arent enough to feel like we have new weather

I wish they focused on weather and small mobs instead of adding the 147472th boss...

On 6/4/2024 at 3:37 AM, Gotheran said:

some of the updates like reap what you sow and character refreshes should be ported back to solo for better version parity so dst isnt the automatic default for people to reccommend because its "newer" or keeps recieving updates and to smooth out what klei obviously saw room for improvement on with the original mechanics

Nothing stops you from recommending both games since ds has a lot of content by adding dlcs for less than 5e...

Is like saying that risk of rain should be 3d because risk of rain2 is 3d...

Also RWYS farms would be overtuned on DS because there arent big challenges there to consume that much healing and sanity. In ds we have many big bosses and multiplayer so one or 2 players can focus on feeding and fill every stat bar of every player but in ds...you only need a couple of fruits to survive many days and fights

 

On 6/4/2024 at 3:37 AM, Gotheran said:

Balance for solo or smaller groups is needed

The game is balanced for arround 3 players... for solo you have, in default, maaaany resources that you can exploit. No need to rebalancing anything. At most the game needs less starting resources because is so easy to survive solo

For fights just use that much resources in your advance...

 

On 6/4/2024 at 3:37 AM, Gotheran said:

Summer needs an overhaul

Agree. I wish they keep adding rewards for being in the surface in summer and a damn ocarine to call the rain for CK so we have a reason to fight him again...

On 6/4/2024 at 3:37 AM, Gotheran said:

Where's Wellington?

I think klei had the idea of adding fantastical characters like a skeleton, a vampire, a witch or a demon but ended adding just the demon (wortox)redesigned into a furro because there are too much degenerate people in the fan base. Now they only add regular humans for a more 'realistic' lore

[Mysterious box]

On 6/3/2024 at 9:37 PM, Gotheran said:

Hot takes? Alright, The dlc characters are pay to win with how over tuned thier abilities are without equivalent drawbacks to make playing them nuanced.

Do you mean the singleplayer don't starve ones? I'd argue the main cast has more or less powercrept the dlc characters hard with Wortox being the weakest of the bunch until his skill tree probably fixes him.

[Gotheran]

29 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Any dlc character beats most of the free ones. Also you can get them by playing few hours and some luck

"a few hours" How do you base that logic? I don't believe the characters can drop from the same lootbox system cosmetics come from and in order to "earn" them via unravelling you're looking at minimum 9 months of unravelling every drop you get to afford one.

 

29 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Nothing stops you from recommending both games since ds has a lot of content by adding dlcs for less than 5e...

Is like saying that risk of rain should be 3d because risk of rain2 is 3d...

I myself often do try to recommend DS over DST, but i know a lot of people do the opposite because of the perpetual updates DST gets which is a strange fallacy I've noticed among game recomendations. But that's a whole hour long video essay I don't have the paitence to resarch, record or edit. And the existing overlap between DS and DST further hurts that unlike something like Risk of Rain where both games are different experiences DS and DST are built on the same foundation but DST gets a bunch of distinct changes that feel like they have no reason not to be present in both games, ontop of that Don't Starve has drastically lower performance requirements so budget users looking to make the most of their limited cpu might miss out on the little things that have little reason to not be in both games, aside from Klei simply not finanically benefiting from it.

29 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Also RWYS farms would be overtuned on DS because there arent big challenges there to consume that much healing and sanity. In ds we have many big bosses and multiplayer so one or 2 players can focus on feeding and fill every stat bar of every player but in ds...you only need a couple of fruits to survive many days and fights

I get that it over produces compared to DS's farming system but thats not the point, its that its a much more interesting and fun system and is far cheaper to get into and do at scale compared to slowly farming a ton of beefalo poop and stones to setup. Most of the required materials already exist in solo, the only things that would need to be added are the things specifically added by rwys like the digamajig, garden hoes, watering can, new crops and crock recipes, etc. There have already been content backports with bundling wrap and beefalo taming.

Quote

The game is balanced for arround 3 players... for solo you have, in default, maaaany resources that you can exploit. No need to rebalancing anything. At most the game needs less starting resources because is so easy to survive solo

For fights just use that much resources in your advance...

Not everyone has the luxury to have folks to play with, playing solo its a pain to deal with the often doubled health pools of most minor mobs and bosses let alone the 10x health D-fly and all the DST specific bosses have, cutting their numbers down saves time, and (player) sanity. I can only imagine some of these bosses being outright impossible due to their health pool size and health regen if you can't keep the pressure up for an average solo player.

[grm9]

1 hour ago, Gotheran said:

let alone the 10x health D-fly

you can count it as an entirely different thing, DST dfly isn't permanently enraged when fighting and spawns lavaes

1 hour ago, Gotheran said:

Not everyone has the luxury to have folks to play with, playing solo its a pain to deal with the often doubled health pools of most minor mobs and bosses let alone the 10x health D-fly and all the DST specific bosses have, cutting their numbers down saves time, and (player) sanity. I can only imagine some of these bosses being outright impossible due to their health pool size and health regen if you can't keep the pressure up for an average solo player

you're pretty much just asking for easy difficulty, ask for that directly

On 6/4/2024 at 3:37 AM, Gotheran said:

The dlc characters are pay to win with how over tuned thier abilities are without equivalent drawbacks to make playing them nuanced

you can't win without a goal and free characters are better for most goals except wanda maybe being good for megabasing at the point when nothing matters, you got clocks set up for all places that you go to after multiple years or with a lot of luck and you teleport only not to feel bored when walking and wormwood spending less time on planting and making plants happy

1 hour ago, Gotheran said:

in order to "earn" them via unravelling you're looking at minimum 9 months of unravelling every drop you get to afford one

did you mean maximum? you only need 1 day if you'd get only elegant stuff 

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Gotheran said:

Not everyone has the luxury to have folks to play with, playing solo its a pain to deal with the often doubled health pools of most minor mobs and bosses let alone the 10x health D-fly and all the DST specific bosses have, cutting their numbers down saves time, and (player) sanity. I can only imagine some of these bosses being outright impossible due to their health pool size and health regen if you can't keep the pressure up for an average solo player.

You have, atleast, x6 resources when playing solo

There arent boss impossible for solo

I dont even mention what you said about DF because makes no sense to compare her to the ds version 

[Clopsy627]

The scrap shoulder spike helmet thing should at least be repairable with scrap sorry did not know what it was actually called

 

[ChintzyGnat]

The difficulty of the game is perfectly fine and people only say it needs a change because they are already too experienced. Veterans will never struggle, new people will always struggle.

[Gotheran]

1 hour ago, ChintzyGnat said:

The difficulty of the game is perfectly fine and people only say it needs a change because they are already too experienced. Veterans will never struggle, new people will always struggle.

People are always confusing difficulty with challenge and balance with brevity, scaling enemy health to fit the current player count isnt about making things more or less difficult or challenging its rebalancing things so the overall experience remains consistent whether you're alone or grouped with friends, Increased health pools is fine when you have 3 or so people working together but for a solo player it just means such engagements take minimum three times as long and equally more time in prep. And the availability of resources is no different than the solo game for the most part, while DST added features to increase availability and renewability to some things its a minor offset to account for griefing or accidental losses, dont starve has always leaned into resource abundance with the dividing line between survival and thriving being how you exploit said resources, not their relative abundance