I am just venting - DST is heading wrong way

[arubaro]

8 minutes ago, grm9 said:

the problem with hound waves wasn't that they were hard, but that they were overly frequent and annoying, since they aren't hard to deal with, you can either wait for them to synchronize their barks once in half a minute and do 1-2 hits which isn't skillful nor fun and very time-consuming or use catapults/minions for at least distraction to make them very easy to deal with and killing 8 hounds with brightshade staff is also utterly boring and doesn't require a brain, you just shoot and run, so it'd be mostly a need to spend some resources and some amount of time in X days doing something that anyone can do 

i didnt mentioned how often they came because i agree that was annoying

suuuuure, 8 hounds are as easier as 1 hound. Crowds arent difficult, for that splumonkeys arent feared by many players and multiple terrorbeaks never killed anyone... also you can always control where they will bark so you never have a hound wave during a dangerous moment

hard to add something difficult if even crowds are "ez omg kappa", better kill critters and destroy decorations to feel the challenge

i forgot how god like players are forumiters

[grm9]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

suuuuure, 8 hounds are as easier as 1 hound. Crowds arent difficult, for that splumonkeys arent feared by many players and multiple terrorbeaks never killed anyone... also you can always control where they will bark so you never have a hound wave during a dangerous moment

they only are because people are impatient and try to hit when all enemies that are close aren't synchronized/others aren't stuck in a taunt animation. About barking, i assume you've understood that by this i meant their taunt animation and not the warning for the hound wave start right?

6 minutes ago, arubaro said:

hard to add something difficult if even crowds are "ez omg kappa"

add enemies with complex mechanics instead of a crowd of enemies with one attack?

7 minutes ago, arubaro said:

better kill critters and destroy decorations to feel the challenge

i didn't say anything about this being fun or challenging though

[arubaro]

21 minutes ago, grm9 said:

add enemies with complex mechanics instead of a crowd of enemies with one attack?

they can add both

for example i like pirate monkeys when on land even when they only have 1 atack. They are fast and kite while also come in groups, or terrobeaks when they are 3 or more

21 minutes ago, grm9 said:

they only are because people are impatient and try to hit when all enemies that are close aren't synchronized/others aren't stuck in a taunt animation. About barking, i assume you've understood that by this i meant their taunt animation and not the warning for the hound wave start right?

what i meant is that they might spawn in a bad moment, you dont control in which day they come so you might be in a tricky situation. Well... more like they came because now they come 1 time every blood moon, before they were tireshome but now...

anyways, hounds are something from the past, BS staff trivializes them on the go. People who never fought them by their own can now simply spam the staff and never worried about being near beefs, crafting 5834737 annoying tooth traps, etc 

21 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i didn't say anything about this being fun or challenging though

wasnt really telling that you were implying that. Just mad at people that are okey with nerfs to things that trully challenge the player while asking for such st.pid noob killing mechanics

 

with dst they can add different things with a little of challgenge to the point of stacking multiple dangers at once like better weather hazzards, hard and complex enemies, status changes like poison, etc

they can also keep exploring on ranged atacks that can be dodge like new deerclops ice stake atack, moon birds spit, etc which requires more player input than just running in the opposite direction

status like poison, temporary reduced healing, setting the player on fire or freezing it (so wormwood and willow downside/perk matters), longer stunlock and more enemies creating sinkholes and throwing you on hit (why armored bearger throws you but regular bearger not?), higher damage from temperature (is dumb that you can ignore temperature damage), harder and interesting downsides on character rather than deleting them, acid rain adding wetness so the damage is still working even under umbralla until you dry, misma not being locked in an optional place to farm pure horror

there are room for much more

[ShadowbirdRH]

I haven't engaged with the latest content yet, largely because of brightshades. I don't megabase, but I do like to beautify my world once I've settled in and handled my immediate survival needs, and I decorate a lot with plants. Brightshades are just way too much of a nuisance. Since their introduction, not only do the lunar rifts do way too much damage to the world, but having to spend so much time dealing with brightshade infestations is a catastrophic downshift in the amount of time I spend actually enjoying the game, and I end up with pockets/chests overflowing with more leafy meat and brightshade loot than I know what to do with, and that's not nearly the only change that I feel strays from good, fun, balanced game design and the spirit of Don't Starve as I've come to know it having first purchased the base game on Wii U, and later on Steam and Switch. Lunar rifts wrecked my 7,500+ day world, and I'm not yet ready to unleash them on my (relatively) new 2,500+ day world, but I eventually do expect to be.

If it were left to me, my fix for brightshades would be two-fold. First, impermanence. Have brigthshades rot after 2-5 days, possibly rotting or withering its host along with it, and yielding no loot save for rot. Second, some kind of way to protect specific areas from infestation, like possibly nearby Dreadstone Walls could absorb/eliminate the rift wraiths that spawn brightshades, or applying Pure Horror to a lightning rod would generate a field that said wraiths wouldn't be able to enter, or a new item from the Shadow Plinth to provide a similar function. Another possibility could be incubation time, that there would be some amount of time, maybe around half a day, or maybe overnight, for brightshades to reach maturity, and could be destroyed prior to that and would only yield leafy meat. This would shift the massive tedium brightshades bring to the world to a challenge of hunting them down for their loot before they can expire. In contrast, the ink blights were handled better, but still need some kind of player agency to prevent them from spawning in particularly undesirable/sensitive areas. The ease at which they can destroy nearby irreplaceable banana trees just screams thoughtless/careless game design. In another topic, I've suggested Pearl be able to teach players to make Fissure Plugs, as seen on her island, to facilitate that purpose. Another possible solution would be to add the Cave Banana Trees to the resources restored upon defeating the Ancient Fuelweaver.

[DJ850]

On 10/23/2023 at 2:24 AM, Theukon-dos said:

Wait they said that? Pity then, that they ended up deviating from that after refreshing the characters that could have used the power creep.

Yes they did, I remember it from an old stream, roughly within winona or willow rework periods, They Did say those words, or practically those words. And look how far it's gone. Likely from Tencent and all I assume.

[Vampyre77]

How come hounds, cave bats antlion, wildfires, formerly earthquakes, Bearger, and deerclops aren't problems for your base but brightshades, acid rain, and hail are?

[Valase]

2 hours ago, Vampyre77 said:

How come hounds, cave bats antlion, wildfires, formerly earthquakes, Bearger, and deerclops aren't problems for your base but brightshades, acid rain, and hail are?

Hounds, Bearger and Deerclops have sound warnings(albeit Bearger's sound is rather low), Antlion spawns in a set location every year and can be easily dispatched(the people that struggle with that are not the same that have brighshades in their world) and bats can be ignored with two bunny houses. Wildfires:  they can go to the caves, they can stick around the oasis sandstorm for protection and only go out at dusk/night and later(in the game years) they usually have the giant trees canopy. 

People complain about Bshades because they attack their decor plants or plants that were placed before defeating CC (usually placed near main areas of the base).

Lunar hail used to damage anything that was not lunar, but got removed until the Team can have a way to it not obliterate everything in its path. Now is just pretty.

Acid rain is there, I guess, and it stops the wetness from caves (that bothers the Warly abusers community).

People complain that those later three are needless and should be removed. I think that it is just an L take from them. As they add more things to a (somewhat) repetitive late game. 

And before someone comes with the good and old "Uh-h Actuchually, they are repetitive too, your point is invalidated." please, don't bother.

[Yuuko]

On 10/23/2023 at 1:56 PM, Mike23Ua said:

As just an example.. Cave Sinkholes and bats spawning out of them werent in the game when it first released, that was something that was added later.

Had that content been added to the game in TODAYS generation of gamers: I guarantee you Bats would not flock out of those holes and potentially invade your base..

Because that’s sadly just what DST has turned into now, a game which caters to the casual masses in ALL THE WRONG WAYS!!

Remember when every post from Mike was about how bad bats were, and that Winona's spotlight *needed* to be a hard-counter to them removing their challenge?

Yeah, I remember...

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Remember when every post from Mike was about how bad bats were, and that Winona's spotlight *needed* to be a hard-counter to them removing their challenge?

Yeah, I remember...

First of all, bats naturally flee bright lights, second of all- It would’ve made Winona’s completely useless spotlight mildly useful, and finally- That suggestion wasn’t to help ME it was so that I can build a structure to keep noobs who join my worlds from dying.

Do you honestly think I can magically manage to have platinumed (Aka get every achievement) in Both DS AND DST if I did not know how to deal with a handful of low health bats? Lol…

[arubaro]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:56 PM, Mike23Ua said:

I beg you guys to go onto YouTube and watch every single Klei offical trailer for both Dont Starve, and Don’t Starve Together- It’ll be a lot to watch.. yes, but you’ll get to see what Don’t Starve Started as, as well as what all was actually added to it over time in Patches & updates that drastically changed it.

As just an example.. Cave Sinkholes and bats spawning out of them werent in the game when it first released, that was something that was added later.

Had that content been added to the game in TODAYS generation of gamers: I guarantee you Bats would not flock out of those holes and potentially invade your base..

Because that’s sadly just what DST has turned into now, a game which caters to the casual masses in ALL THE WRONG WAYS!!

If Klei wants to cater to casuals- Do it with content that will actually be FUN for Casuals- Like pretty furniture from the SawHorse.

you should leaen what 'casual' means. Your suggestions is precisely what a casual game would add and, as shosuko pointed you were the only one complaining about bats for months

playing short sessions, which isnt a wrong thing, and wanting everything to be accessible in those short sessions is what a casual player is. Games like rogelikes and multiplayer modes like GTAV's, multiplayer games like Fortnite or LoL are casual gamemodes/games

stop attacking people because they want a fun game instead of a casual session that ends based on RNG destruction without counter play 

[Hungry French]

On 10/7/2023 at 1:58 PM, allmeitysk said:

Playtime: 4,400 hours

Purchased: 3 years ago. 

Type of player: Addicted megabase

For almost 4000 hours in the game, I really enjoyed every minute of it. Some patches were great, other not so, but I have to say this new Lunar content is absolutely annoying and not fun to play. It seems like, as if Klei just wanted to punish those players that get as far as very late game of enbling rifts. Once you get there, game stop being rewarding to player, it becomes nuisance. Instead of you enjoying what you have achieved, making your life maybe easier killing some early bosses such as Dragonfly, beequeen or others - game keeps throwing at you these not-so "survival" mechanics as if it is real challange. 

 

Brightshades 

It mind blowing to me that you still have not recognized that brightshade mechanics are annoyance rather than challange. You punishing players that got this far in the game. I am sorry Klei, but if player gets to this very late game, I am sure they are not using berry bushes as food supply? And really, have you tried getting to day 500+? Every 15-20 days we get new lunar portal which spawns, I dont even know how many of those brightshades - 20? My world is literally taken over by brightshades. Is this what you really intended? Me being nanny and keep cleaning my world every 20 days of the brightshades? You made farming content fun and rewarding just by killing it with never ending storm of brightshades. Wow, so much for challange...

Klei, I am sure you have game statistics, please hire some Analytical mind to tell you want to do. 

Why cant you give us replicas of berry bushes? Why cant you reduce the amount of brightshades that spawn per portal? Why cant you comeup with different idea? You know whats more funny? I can farm purebrilliance which is supposed to be this rare/special meterial in more peace than I can walk through my base full of brightshades or farming.

Why cant these brightshades infect purebrilliance? You want purebrilliance? Well you gotta kill its host first. The later you come visit this portal, more purebrilliance there will be, but also more brightshades you have to kill first for it. This will be better challange then them screwing everything up in my bases. 

 

Wanda

What can I say?  You killed her. She absolutely no-go for this late game content, she is pathethicly weak and not worth picking in the world anymore. 

 

New possesed bosses.

Kudos to you, fights are great. Once you know these 2 mechanics basically you need for all 3 of them, you can beat them easily. I would welcome something more challanging. Give those bosses 3-4 mechanics, we have to watch their body expressions to figure out what kind of attack its about to do etc. I dont know, maybe I am just too good at this game, but deerclops is literally dodge ice spike and firestaff him just to stunhim and beat him to death - repeat until killed. I dont really perceive this as challange. 

 

The new bearger food bin

Damn, cant say a bad word about this. This is item worth fighting for and having in late game reward. 

 

Sawhouse or whatever its called

In reallity, i expected more. Its damn late game, why we still dont have a means to craft 10 cut stone or boards at once?? This would be such a great machine to allow us to do this. What are we afraid of? Its damn super late game, I fought hard to get there, I deserve to be treated like a king if I survived. You just keep implementing these cleaning-up mechanics or "chores" but dont give us a SINGLE thing that allows us to do things faster to have time for your chores you throwing at me. 

 

Area structures

Just stop implementing structures that make certain areas safe, cool, hot or whatever. No I do not plan to keep building them every 10 tiles, so that the zone is safe of something. 

 

Hail rain

Well just another annoyance without any challange - asking player to dodge or use umrella. At least these things dont damage builds but they do damage mobs. Lunar frog rain, I dont know, its bugged or something but havnt seen one at all   but I guess you know what I want to say. "CHALLANGE" just like regular frog rain  

 

I mean, I wanna and go play your game now, so I will stop ranting. There would be a lot more to say. Still trying to find a bits of fun in your game and having hopes that maybe this patch you come to right track. 

 

For every good idea you comeup with 3 others that just ruin game experience of those dedicated late game sandbox players. 

Once players start disabling certain content, once players start using mods to adjust YOUR content. You have failed as game creator. 

Now if you allow me, I will go and disable Lunar portals so I can finally use berrybushes and decoration and stop this brightshade annoyance madness. I was never type of "cheese" player. But damn, your content made me to plant dragonfruit around lava ponds just so I can have a bit of peace my in 1700 days where I just want to chill and base in downtime.

 

And yes, some of us play your game this way too. They just enjoy building & coming up with the ideas. This is my current solor 1700 megabase. I dont think you can find any berry bush plant in my oasis base, just for the damn sake I have peace there when walking around. You just killed one of the nicest decors in the game

 

Pssst: Look closely on this map and count for me how many brightshades you see randomly in the world   CHALLANGE!

Don't you like the fact that Together is trying to somehow resemble real survival? And not on the Mega base and boss rush simulator ?

Despite the fact that Klei abandoned survival during the beta version of DST. 

The maximum we got was Rifts, Varglets and nothing else. And 1000 changes, so that survival would be as comfortable and relaxing as possible.

[grm9]

34 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

a structure to keep noobs who join my worlds from dying.

that structure is called two bunnyman houses with fences around them 

34 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It would’ve made Winona’s completely useless spotlight mildly useful

nah it'd still be obsolete in comparison to two bunnyman houses with fences around them

34 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Do you honestly think I can magically manage to have platinumed (Aka get every achievement) in Both DS AND DST if I did not know how to deal with a handful of low health bats? Lol…

wasn't DST platinum just "survive one in-game year and kill every boss that was ported from DS and RoG"

[arubaro]

42 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

First of all, bats naturally flee bright lights

i was born in a town with many bats, they were 90% of the time near bright lights because they lure insects...

cartoons arent a good source of knowledge 

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

That suggestion wasn’t to help ME it was so that I can build a structure to keep noobs who join my worlds from dying.

 

Regardless the request was 100% a request to control / contain the influx of invasive mechanics.

Bats are an invasive mechanic that makes it more frustrating to build and play around them.  Whether for you, or the people you bring into your worlds - the point of your suggestion was wanting a way to mitigate this harassment.

Now there are ways to deal with bats, but those are not satisfactory for many as players often insist on leaving many sinkholes closed around their base and others use mods that close sinkholes back up.  We could definitely use more ways to deal with bats.  Your suggestion using Winona's light imo isn't a great one because it locks a mechanic people want generally behind a single character who is already derided as a "pick and swap."  I think a better mechanic, or lower spawn rate, or some other change would probably be better - but you're not wrong to suggest something for this problem.

Just as people aren't wrong for suggesting portals avoid their bases - since they are literally an unstoppable force of destruction - or suggest other changes like having them become stoppable, etc.  Its not because these players can't handle the portals, they're farming up all the materials just like you are.  Just having a whole screen if your construction be uprooted in an instant with nothing to stop it well...  that doesn't really make people keep playing the game.  These mechanics are invasive and naturally we want something that can combat such an intrusive mechanic.  Leaving things like this unchecked *will* cause people who drop the game.

Klei has already done some things to lessen the harassments of the portals like making them try really hard to not spawn on top of a base.  This was done so that they could maintain zero counter play to the portals arriving.  Sure you could build signs literally all across your world, but I don't think you understand just what an undertaking that is if you think that is a real answer lol  DST is like 99% monetized around being an endlessly replayable game.  Anything that makes us turn the game off should be avoided.

[JustAFlower]

Wrong way ? Nah, it's fine. I just want more quality of life updates, cooking refresh, world generation, boss reworks, all characters getting a skill tree... but even if Klei is still going with rift end game content, I'm okay really. I can't be the only one, right ?

[Hungry French]

3 minutes ago, JustAFlower said:

Wrong way ? Nah, it's fine. I just want more quality of life updates, cooking refresh, world generation, boss reworks, all characters getting a skill tree... but even if Klei is still going with rift end game content, I'm okay really. I can't be the only one, right ?

So it doesn 't matter to you what Klei will do ?

[JustAFlower]

2 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

So it doesn 't matter to you what Klei will do ?

Why SHOULD I care ?

[Hungry French]

Just now, JustAFlower said:

Why SHOULD I care ?

Do you care about the game ?

[JustAFlower]

1 minute ago, Hungry French said:

Do you care about the game ?

I care about the intentions, hopes and dreams of the creators.

[Mike23Ua]

17 minutes ago, JustAFlower said:

I care about the intentions, hopes and dreams of the creators.

Sometimes (in rare cases) the intentions, hopes & dreams of a game, movie or Tv shows creators do not actually align with those of their fanbase.

Many things are often changed to accommodate for that, such as but not just limited to: Harry Potter Franchise, and WWE match winners.

No Man’s Sky when it originally released was a TERRIBLE Game that did not live up to ANY of its promises or fan expectations of what they thought the game was going to be, but despite that and a HORRIBLE launch reception: The developers choose not to give up on this project & they would make it meet or exceed fan expectations.. and many patches and free updates later- No Mans Sky is now one of the best space exploration games to ever exist (yes it even beats out that overly hyped recently released mess known as Starfield)

However: I choose to remain ever optimistic- And While Starfield May be quite bad now, that most certainly does NOT mean that like No Man’s Sky & Cyberpunk- It too can not have its redemption story.

I felt that I needed to express this, because sometimes what aligns with Klei’s Hopes, Dreams & Aspirations for their projects, may not fully line up with what fans expect or even want out of it.

And for me in particular: the one thing that brought me into the franchise in the first place was the promise of getting to “explore randomly generated worlds full of things that hate me and want me to die.”

However: DST has significantly LESS “Random Generation” than its single player counter part, and I want to call Klei out on that in HOPES that they’ll eventually fix it & deliver what I Expect & want to see from the franchise.

[JustAFlower]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Sometimes (in rare cases) the intentions, hopes & dreams of a game, movie or Tv shows creators do not actually align with those of their fanbase.

Many things are often changed to accommodate for that, such as but not just limited to: Harry Potter Franchise.

No Man’s Sky when it originally released was a TERRIBLE Game that did not live up to ANY of its promises or fam expectations of what they thought the game was going to be, but despite that and a HORRIBLE launch reception: The developers choose not to give up on this project & they would make it meet or exceed fan expectations.. and many patches and free updates later- No Mans Sky is now one of the best space exploration games to ever exist (yes it even beats out that overly hyped recently released mess known as Starfield)

However: I choose to remain ever optimistic- And While Starfield May be quite bad now, that most certainly does NOT mean that like No Man’s Sky & Cyberpunk- It too can not have its redemption story.

I felt that I needed to express this, because sometimes what aligns with Klei’s Hopes, Dreams & Aspirations for their projects, may not fully line up with what fans expect or even want out of it.

And for me in particular: the one thing that brought me into the franchise in the first place was the promise of getting to “explore randomly generated worlds full of things that hate me and want me to die.”

However: DST has significantly LESS “Random Generation” than its single player counter part, and I want to call Klei out on that in HOPES that they’ll eventually fix it & deliver what I Expect & want to see from the franchise.

Do you remember the three pictures of the roadmap 2023 ? There is an image with survivors in front of what seems to be a small mountain. Hint for future world generations ? Maybe. Waiting is key, development takes time and forcing it results in fnaf security breach. So, I'm waiting.

Klei right now is working on two games, small projects and they still didn't finish that quality of life update for consoles. So, we, wait. 

[_zwb]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

However: DST has significantly LESS “Random Generation” than its single player counter part

Could you give some examples? From what I can see they are equally random.

[Maxil20]

Just now, _zwb said:

Could you give some examples? From what I can see they are equally random.

From my experience, the main changes are a consistent mandrake forest (IIRC DS only has a chance to generate a mandrake forest, and it’s consistent in DST), the second oasis desert (DS technically has one, but it’s again random, spawns catcoons in the center of the grass field, and lacks any of the DST exclusive content) and glommer’s statue always has a pan flute compared to the 75% chance for one in DS.

[Hungry French]

21 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

From my experience, the main changes are a consistent mandrake forest (IIRC DS only has a chance to generate a mandrake forest, and it’s consistent in DST), the second oasis desert (DS technically has one, but it’s again random, spawns catcoons in the center of the grass field, and lacks any of the DST exclusive content) and glommer’s statue always has a pan flute compared to the 75% chance for one in DS.

Also Walrus Camp and beefalos are not 100% a thing in DS generation.
There are a lot more generation traps in DS.

The lack of mandrakes on the map is probably the only reason to use sleep darts. In DST, even the seasonal boss gives mandrakes...

57 minutes ago, JustAFlower said:

I care about the intentions, hopes and dreams of the creators.

Do they care about your intentions, hopes and dreams?

[_zwb]

30 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

the main changes are a consistent mandrake forest, the second oasis dessert

DST still got 10 biomes that aren't guaranteed, not a big deal on randomness but ok.

33 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

glommer’s statue always has a pan flute compared to the 75% chance for one in DS.

Right, in DS a lot of things are not guaranteed, like deerclops might not spawn on day 30, yes the game gets more random but that also means you can go through an entire year without seeing any giants from """Reign of Gaints""".

If this is the randomness Mike wants I'd rather have less randomness.

11 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Also Walrus Camp and beefalos are not 100% a thing in DS generation.

This is false.