What is the Purpose of WARBIS Helm?

[Fufuji]

The WARBIS Head Gear can be acquired at exactly the same gameplay stage as BS Helm. 

WARBIS Head Gear can: improve physical damage by 20% after 30 seconds. For characters without extra damage multipliers it boosts Dark Sword's damage from 68 to 81.6. However due to that physical damage multipliers overlaps each other, the damage boost will be much higher for Wolfgang and Wanda.

BS Helm can: improve BS Sword's damage from 68 to 76.8. 

When used against pre-planar mobs, the WARBIS Helm has a minor advantage over BS Helm. As for planar mobs, WARBIS Helm is no match for BS Helm.

So I wonder if the WARBIS Helm is part of "rebalancing" of damage system and different characters. Because it now seems to be an exclusive equipment for Wanda, Wolfgang and Warly against mobs without planar entity protection. 

[00petar00]

The purpose of it is to improve experience for console users. It is so ingrained in PC users to swap weapon and walking cane when kiting when console players have a really hard time doing this.

The speed buff is so important and console users will be able to fight shadow pieces without tanking, it is necessary for CC and other fights become much easier.

PC users can animation cancel and deal much more damage so this will be an option for those who don't want to do this.

[Fufuji]

17 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

The purpose of it is to improve experience for console users. It is so ingrained in PC users to swap weapon and walking cane when kiting when console players have a really hard time doing this.

The speed buff is so important and console users will be able to fight shadow pieces without tanking, it is necessary for CC and other fights become much easier.

PC users can animation cancel and deal much more damage so this will be an option for those who don't want to do this.

I see WARBIS armor is a very good design for console players. 

But for the animation canceling thing, you know not very much players can handle this. And since the last player attack speed change, animation canceling can only at most reduce atk interval by 1~2 frames(from 13~14frames to at least 12), which is not a significant difference, plus that many experienced players may lose hits every now and then.

I don't think PC players can have a advantage over console players by using animation cancel skills in general. Or is this what the devs said in the streaming?

[-Variant]

14 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Or is this what the devs said in the streaming?

It was mentioned during the Stream that the Warbis gear is mainly there for helping console players catch up. Though of course it does/can fill other purposes as well.

Item switching in of itself does do a lot for people who can consistently use it. People who can't can also use the armor for this purpose too, though.

[Brago-sama]

As a console player.... yeah thisll be nice but i fail to see how it will help us seeing as its aaaaaaall the way at the end of the game where people who made it there dont need help combat wise (and tbh unless theyre a mega baser, will be wrapping up thier playthru very shortly). I certainly wont be using it anymore then a Pc player.

Its still pretty nice tho

[00petar00]

23 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

But for the animation canceling thing, you know not very much players can handle this. And since the last player attack speed change, animation canceling can only at most reduce atk interval by 1~2 frames(from 13~14frames to at least 12), which is not a significant difference, plus that many experienced players may lose hits every now and then.

It is much faster, just look up on some youtube videos. This is even better for Wanda since her weapon has high damage but slower attack speed.

I don't know the exact numbers as I didn't bother to calculate but you are almost doubling the damage if you don't make mistakes.

There is nothing wrong with WARBIS as it is a late game item and they need to progressively make stronger gear to go with stronger enemies.

What do you expect? another armor with 95% or 90% damage resistance and some boring ability that isn't very useful? Do we need more of these? There is enough bland and boring armor in the game.

I want interesting unique gear with special abilities that are impactful and klei is taking a good direction with WARBIS.

What I want in the future with new armor is visual effects and empowering attacks for example an armor set that lets you freeze enemies after a number of hits, maybe fire armor set that will set enemies on fire but only overheat giants and deal damage over time or new type of shadow armor that could make enemies insane after a number of hits and shadow creatures would spawn to attack them.

There are limitless possibilities but we are limited by what players think is overpowered when you can literally kite every boss and not take any damage, players will always abuse the game mechanics to profit. 

[Baark0]

Just now, 00petar00 said:

The purpose of it is to improve experience for console users. It is so ingrained in PC users to swap weapon and walking cane when kiting when console players have a really hard time doing this.

The speed buff is so important and console users will be able to fight shadow pieces without tanking, it is necessary for CC and other fights become much easier.

PC users can animation cancel and deal much more damage so this will be an option for those who don't want to do this.

I  thought warbis was post rift content? Or can you get it before then?

[Fufuji]

2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

It is much faster, just look up on some youtube videos. This is even better for Wanda since her weapon has high damage but slower attack speed.

I don't know the exact numbers as I didn't bother to calculate but you are almost doubling the damage if you don't make mistakes.

There is nothing wrong with WARBIS as it is a late game item and they need to progressively make stronger gear to go with stronger enemies.

What do you expect? another armor with 95% or 90% damage resistance and some boring ability that isn't very useful? Do we need more of these?

I want interesting unique gear with special abilities that are impactful and klei is taking a good direction with WARBIS.

What I want in the future with new armor is visual effects and empowering attacks for example an armor set that lets you freeze enemies after a number of hits or fire armor set that will set enemies on fire but only overheat giants and deal damage over time, new type of shadow armor that could make enemies insane after a number of hits and shadow creatures would spawn to attack them.

There are limitless possibilities but we are limited by what players think is overpowered when you can literally kite every boss and not take any damage, players will always abuse the game mechanics to profit.

The attack speed constantly alters, fastest 13 frames (0.433s) per attack and this will usually shift to 14 or even 15 frames, no matter whether there is network lag. For a single player server, it is usually 13~14 frames. Animation cancelling improves it to at most 12 frames, that is a 7.7%~15.3% boost. For Wanda, beefalos and Weremoose(these are 15frames) it is also 12 frames at most, so there will be a 20% or more improvement. The improvement is far from "double" actually.

What I am expecting is that it should make more difference on characters like Wilson who have no damage multipliers, to distinguish itself from BS helm. Like, more damage buff, or flat physical damage or something.

I'm very sorry for not expressing myself clearly. Currently I think the most (probably only) unique feature of WARBIS Helm is that it can buff pigmen and other minions. It should probably have a buff.

22 minutes ago, -Variant said:

It was mentioned during the Stream that the Warbis gear is mainly there for helping console players catch up. Though of course it does/can fill other purposes as well.

Item switching in of itself does do a lot for people who can consistently use it. People who can't can also use the armor for this purpose too, though.

I'm very sorry for not expressing myself clearly. Currently I think the most (probably only) unique feature of WARBIS Helm is that it can buff pigmen and other minions. It should probably have a buff.

What I am expecting is that it should make more difference on characters like Wilson who have no damage multipliers, to distinguish itself from BS helm. Like, more damage buff, or flat physical damage or something.

The armor does well for console players I think.

[Jakepeng99]

It should grant planar damage to planar weapons, it is so hard to get, yet is useless against the enemys at the stage you get it from, and is useless with the weapons from that stage too

[chirsg]

Even Wigfrid with enlightened crown outdamages warbis helm. it's a bit sad

 

[arubaro]

7 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Even Wigfrid with enlightened crown outdamages warbis helm. it's a bit sad

 

you the crown doesn't give armor

i like that it doesn't overshadow anything. You equip it when you wanna fight with extra damage but still getting armor so you can equip cloths, mag or whatever in the body slot

 

rpg progression in sandbox games limits gameplay 

[Wonz]

6 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The purpose of it is to improve experience for console users

So silly they need to wait until they pretty much completed the game while PC player can do that right away. 95% of their experience won't be improved by that I guess

[Shuckster]

While I have always played on PC, like the degenerate I am, I use controller myself. It's from a bygone era where I played on my couch and it was more comfortable, and I don't really feel like "relearning" the game rn (maybe one day lol.)

I will say that if this is really the reason this item exists, I'd have to say it's an incredibly "odd" bandage fix that doesn't even really fix the issue. Even if we choose to ignore the fact that this set of armor is tied to a post-CC/higher difficulty mode meaning that most players won't ever even see it on most worlds, and if we also ignore that it also still works for normal mouse & keyboard players meaning they still can't catch up to the DPS when they can just use the same thing. Why are we tying "improving the console/controller" experience behind gear in the first place instead of just somehow making the controls on controller better instead? Especially since there's a good chance that the WARBIS stuff is likely to eventually be overshadowed by something else better eventually (arguably not even that great even now), It's such a bizarre and baffling thing to do, especially since there are other issues associated with controller that also probably need attention that're way worse than having ackward/borderline impossible attack canceling. Not being able to attack cancel isn't nearly as bad as say, having a harder time targeting with spells/projectiles where often you have to be near the object eliminating the fact it's supposed to be long range, or having no direct control over casting Starcaller/AoE spells or teleportation locations, as in you can only do it a set distance in the direction you're facing and can't adjust distance. Sometimes things block your targeting in ways that it almost literally becomes impossible to interact with or pick up stuff that I would have no problem doing on m&k vs. controller. 

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, Shuckster said:

having no direct control over casting Starcaller/AoE spells or teleportation locations, as in you can only do it a set distance in the direction you're facing and can't adjust distance. 

Wortox is really fun and its cool using his soul hop to kite bosses on pc. When using a controller Wortox is crippled by bad controls and feels like a different character.

I hope Klei fix targetting for console and controller users.

[Mike23Ua]

11 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

The purpose of it is to improve experience for console users. It is so ingrained in PC users to swap weapon and walking cane when kiting when console players have a really hard time doing this.

The speed buff is so important and console users will be able to fight shadow pieces without tanking, it is necessary for CC and other fights become much easier.

PC users can animation cancel and deal much more damage so this will be an option for those who don't want to do this.

The problem with this is that to even unlock this content you have to kill AFW & CC so the armor would really only be useful (even to us console players) on Post Rift content..

Unless you turn Rifts on in World Gen settings ahead of their Intended way of opening.

[Spino43]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The problem with this is that to even unlock this content you have to kill AFW & CC so the armor would really only be useful (even to us console players) on Post Rift content..

Unless you turn Rifts on in World Gen settings ahead of their Intended way of opening.

For once I agree with you. For an armor supposed to aid console players, you have to go through a lot of problems to get it.

[Shuckster]

3 hours ago, Spino43 said:

For once I agree with you. For an armor supposed to aid console players, you have to go through a lot of problems to get it.

I should have mentioned that even if you could get to a point where you're competent enough to get this armor, you've probably already mastered fighting and probably don't need the crutch anymore. I also forgot to to mention how this armor is useless in most day to day scenarios otuside bosses specifically, again making it less of a useful tool to use as compensation to controller/console players.

Just work with controller users to figure out some better controls or something instead of this wierd attempt to level the playing field that actually does nothing to really help. 

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Shuckster said:

I should have mentioned that even if you could get to a point where you're competent enough to get this armor, you've probably already mastered fighting and probably don't need the crutch anymore. I also forgot to to mention how this armor is useless in most day to day scenarios otuside bosses specifically, again making it less of a useful tool to use as compensation to controller/console players.

Just work with controller users to figure out some better controls or something instead of this wierd attempt to level the playing field that actually does nothing to really help. 

I suggested something a long time ago that would’ve massively improved the QoL for Console Players, but it seems Klei wanted to add some weird In-game Armor that’s locked behind literally beating most of the game instead.

I’m not entirely sure WHAT the point in Warbis armor actually is, but if it’s to help console controller players specifically.. then due to how late it’s unlocked in the game I already hate it.

My suggestion, however on the other hand would’ve allowed console gamers to quickly switch between two dedicated “Hand-Slot” Items by doing something as simple as Tapping Y on an Xbox Controller- Which Currently it’s only use is to “Inspect” things in the world, which could be changed to “Hold” the Y button.

The little “Hand” Icon in the top far left corner and the 3rd to last right hand corner are your two dedicated hand slots in my Suggestion, So: The TL:DR in the currently depicted image- Tapping Y would switch between my Darksword and My Pickaxe.

I was hopeful this would be covered in a QOL update but instead it appears we get some extremely late game in-game armor instead.. sometimes Klei’s Development decisions are quite baffling to me.

But I’m going to trust that they know what’s best for their game. 

[Gashzer]

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The problem with this is that to even unlock this content you have to kill AFW & CC so the armor would really only be useful (even to us console players) on Post Rift content..

Unless you turn Rifts on in World Gen settings ahead of their Intended way of opening.

Well i assume the Warbis armour is to make refighting raid bosses like ancient fuelweaver, CC, shadow chess pieces, bee queen and dfly alot easier. So i wouldnt say its only useful for post rift content. Its more akin to unlocking cheat armour for pre rift content.

One buff i would suggest for it tho is that the targetting happens faster. It currently takes too long to hit max level of power with the armour.

[Brago-sama]

Would Warbis even work for fuelweaver with so many targets during the fight and having to switch to them.

I could see myself using it for CC tho, always need more shards, although its in competition with the crown and im pretty sure it has higher dps, + CC and his sanity aura keeping you topped off

[Gashzer]

2 hours ago, Brago-sama said:

Would Warbis even work for fuelweaver with so many targets during the fight and having to switch to them.

I could see myself using it for CC tho, always need more shards, although its in competition with the crown and im pretty sure it has higher dps, + CC and his sanity aura keeping you topped off

Well brightshade staff means you only need to target fuelweaver. But brightshade helm and sword is very competitive with the warbis atm atleast for fuelweaver and shadow chess pieces.

Ah the crown runs out of uses unless you have sanity food to keep it going during a boss fight. Warbis has a relaxed reliable damage boost.

The great thing about the warbis helm is that it allows the thulecite club to remain competitive in power (or exceed power with 10% speed boost and tentacle damage) with the brightshade sword against non-planar, non-shadow bosses.