Ryusuta Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 (Let me preface this by saying I'm well aware that this content series is a work in progress, and everything is subject to change. I am not claiming to have a crystal ball; simply speculating on the future and critiquing what we already have.) Having Wormwood not have a Shadow Path kinda tips the hand of this update series, doesn't it? Wormwood can't be shadow because he's from the moon and Maxwell can't be lunar because he is aligned with Charlie. (Even though Maxwell has a Moonbound skin and Wormwood has a Triumphant one, but that's beside the point.) I dunno about anyone else, but that feels honestly pretty disappointing. Kinda forces characters into a very predictable, uninteresting trajectory. The reason this bothers me is because the one thing that had been giving me hope and keeping me invested in this chapter was the promise that "Every Survivor will have a choice to make." Personally, I took it to mean that they'd all be choosing something somewhat substantive to flesh out potential directions for the character, but right now it seems like the "choice" is literally just choosing stuff on a skill tree with not particular bearing on anything. Is that really all that was meant by it? Man... I hate being so down on everything that's been happening this chapter, but I truly feel like there is nothing of interest to look forward to. Sorry, I just kinda felt the need to let that out. I really hope I'm wrong about this and future updates knock it out of the park. I guess time will tell. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelo Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 When they first introduced Wormwood's skill set in the beta, I was extremely happy he didn't have a shadow option I'll be honest. It felt more unique given his background. I feel the same way with Maxy. We know now that Willow worked with Maxwell (or at least Charlie) but she isn't allied with them like Maxwell is who given his refresh short very much wants to continue to have shadow powers. Wanda and Wicker will be really interesting because I could see her having both paths because she uses shadow but sees it as a "necessary evil" while Wicker scoffs at shadow magic in favor of lunar. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1655840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primalflower Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 its just one character friend i don't really think that anyone other than wormwood & maxwell are so particularly aligned in that way, the choice still exists for everyone else, I'm particularly excited to see winona have to choose between two baskets that both have eggs placed in by her Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1655851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimbo Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Yes maxwell is probably not getting lunar aligned and that can be for lore reasons cus he is already with charlie in his short, but its not really a big deal he is already good enough (but ye it can be saddening a lil) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1655854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeklo Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Ryusuta said: Man... I hate being so down on everything that's been happening this chapter, but I truly feel like there is nothing of interest to look forward to. I do admit the Skill Tree update trajectory doesn't have me quite enamored as I once was. The 'choice' was a bit underwhelming [for me]. I just hope that when the Shadow & Lunar sides meet, my excitement will return. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1655857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Guy000 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Honestly? Considering that Woodie isn't pure shadow aligned(because screw the curse), I'd say that only Maxwell and Wormwood will have pure alignments Even if Klei will decide to throw in more pure alignments, the only other possible candidates are Winona, Wickerbottom and Wanda, as they are the only ones that somewhat bothered by altar/shadow shenanigans(and even THEN, I'm sure they'll add some cool stuff to both branches. Wormwoods skill tree was a flop as a whole, or so I heard, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions purely from his example) I wouldn't be too concerned with that situation Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1655862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamboyant wolf Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Random Guy000 said: Winona, Wickerbottom and Wanda I doubt those characters won't have a choice when it comes to affinities(maybe Wanda, but hopefully not). Winona has connections to both Charlie (Shadow Queen) and Wagstaff (Cryptic Founder), so for her, it would make sense to choose either (plus, siding with Wagstaff could also possibly give her access to some Wagstaff tech™, which would be relevant to her kit) Wanda uses nightmare fuel to power her watches, but also is on the run from the shadows, and wishes she could utilize lunar magic instead. (now, the question is - can she choose to side with lunar? To that, I don't have an answer, but tbh considering we're siding with Wagstaff and not Alter itself - maybe?) Wickerbottom has books that use both lunar and shadow magic (lunar grimoire, sleepy time stories), she also took some inspiration from codex umbra (first Light book). (although, I'd say in canon she'd probably choose lunar side, but I think she could still choose the shadows, if what they provide suits her goals and ambitions). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1655888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Good_Fellow Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 I mean different characters always have different amounts of options. Wormwood and Maxwell having alignment exclusivity is no different than Wigfrid not having the option to eat non-meat or Wanda not having the same healing options as other characters imo. In fact, I kind of like that not every single character interacts with the alignment feature the same way. I do agree that this is not nearly as compelling as the developers made this choice sound though. I don't have many issues with skill trees from a gameplay perspective, but I definitely think it was a pretty uninventive way to incorporate alignment into the story. I'm holding out hope that future updates will flesh out alignment features more, but I would say right now the "choosing a side" feature feels incredibly mechanical and impersonal considering what it represents. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1655896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 4 hours ago, Random Guy000 said: Honestly? Considering that Woodie isn't pure shadow aligned(because screw the curse), I'd say that only Maxwell and Wormwood will have pure alignments Even if Klei will decide to throw in more pure alignments, the only other possible candidates are Winona, Wickerbottom and Wanda, as they are the only ones that somewhat bothered by altar/shadow shenanigans(and even THEN, I'm sure they'll add some cool stuff to both branches. Wormwoods skill tree was a flop as a whole, or so I heard, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions purely from his example) I wouldn't be too concerned with that situation As far as we know the curse isn't shadow based were creatures are exploited by the shadows and the moon but never supported by them. Both sides seem to aim to manipulate them rather than have them work for them. Does make me curious as to why the shadows and the moon are so set on locking up were creatures though. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1655900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblinball Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Tbh even if wormwood’s skill tree didn’t have a shadow alignment I think that’s fine because instead they managed to make his skill tree a literal tree and I think that’s cool and probably wouldn’t have worked as well with alignment perk shenanigans Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1655910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMatt Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 9 hours ago, Ryusuta said: (Even though Maxwell has a Moonbound skin and Wormwood has a Triumphant one, but that's beside the point.) Just to clarify isn't this because the skin sets are seen as "alternate history" to an extent? It has no underlying lore significance or effect because the skins are essentially just cosplay, right? 7 hours ago, Random Guy000 said: Considering that Woodie isn't pure shadow aligned(because screw the curse) But Wagstaff blocks Woodie's curse activating on full moons. If anything if he was locked in he'd be locked into lunar alignment given how much more significant the effect has on his character in a positive manner than shadow alignment, which actively encourages him to transform more. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1655924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohan Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 I also think itll probably just be ww and max with mono alignments which i think is fitting. (Not an endorsement of ww’s tree i mean just thematically ). small inconsequential nitpick but i hope Wickerbottom’s lunar alignment text wont make it sound like its wagstaff that gave her something since we’ve seen shes more than capable of exploring/studying this stuff on her own and drawing power from it. Wickerbottom is the only other survivor that i could see getting a mono lunar alignment (tbf i have not given the rest much thought ). Most of her quotes that come to mind referring to shadow stuff express distrust and wariness while lunar stuff fascinates her. And in terms of gameplay Wickerbottom synergizes soo well with lunar mechanics, probably the best out of all the survivors. I think if Sleepytime stories was introduced in today’s DST it could very well require moonshrooms instead of nfuel. (I wish someone would make that mod actually) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1655954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VexTheHex Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023  Maxwell is already tainted with the shadows and nightmare fuel, it's possible the Lunar side would reject him anyways. He fits well as the only Shadow aligned character.   Most characters honestly make more sense on Team Lunar currently. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1656042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatAndRun Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 I cannot wait to see all implications of skill trees for each character, honestly. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1656045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masked Koopa Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 39 minutes ago, VexTheHex said: Most characters honestly make more sense on Team Lunar currently. Side with the funny old man who asks you for help and has generally done nothing bad to you, or side with the lady who has been attacking you for years. (Difficult choice) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1656047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
somethin Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Masked Koopa said: Side with the funny old man who asks you for help and has generally done nothing bad to you, or side with the lady who has been attacking you for years. (Difficult choice) Stockholm syndrome is one helluva drug Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1656067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusuta Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 hours ago, Masked Koopa said: Side with the funny old man who asks you for help and has generally done nothing bad to you, or side with the lady who has been attacking you for years. (Difficult choice) Well said. And I truly do appreciate all the replies, everyone. I kinda started the thread as a bit of a vent, so it's been interesting to see the various different perspectives on this. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1656087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szczuku Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 hours ago, Masked Koopa said: Side with the funny old man who asks you for help and has generally done nothing bad to you, or side with the lady who has been attacking you for years. (Difficult choice) Counterpoint: Charlie is a goth gf Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1656091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Good_Fellow Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 9 hours ago, Masked Koopa said: Side with the funny old man who asks you for help and has generally done nothing bad to you, or side with the lady who has been attacking you for years. (Difficult choice) Except the concept of "enlightenment" scares me so much more than the concept of insanity. The devil you know, I guess Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1656125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masked Koopa Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 46 minutes ago, D_Good_Fellow said: Except the concept of "enlightenment" scares me so much more than the concept of insanity. The devil you know, I guess We're not siding with Alter though, just Wagstaff Don't Starve, who we know very well as we have played as him in the hit indie title Don't Starve for the personal computer. If anything he is acting against Alter's wishes. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1656132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Good_Fellow Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 26 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said: We're not siding with Alter though, just Wagstaff Don't Starve, who we know very well as we have played as him in the hit indie title Don't Starve for the personal computer. If anything he is acting against Alter's wishes. Far be it from me to question our good friend Wagstaff Don't Starve, but counterpoint: he gives me bad vibes. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150017-so-no-subversive-lunar-path-for-maxwell-then/#findComment-1656142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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