justice for woodie (don't close this one please?)

[Mysterious box]

10 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I will reluctantly say it's fair. I'm pretty much a Woodie main, failing that, Woodie partial. 
The regen nerf... and it pains me to say it... Was warranted. 

I don't know I have to try it out for myself I guess to make a final opinion on it but before the patch it never felt like it was overly generous for a boss fight.

[Memetan]

To be honest, I'm more concerned about the health regen nerf, since one thing that I hated about Weremoose was his relaying in other characters to heal. Also, to make the slam attack we have to make 3 consecutive hits (2 normal hits, one slam), so tanking is important. I just want my beta Weremoose back.

[Dragonboooorn]

wait, did Klei nerfed Woodie cuz he wooshed treeguards butt in some video? 

I swear to God, Im having more troubles fighting with pigman than with treeguard. Its a joke boss fight wise

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Memetan said:

To be honest, I'm more concerned about the health regen nerf, since one thing that I hated about Weremoose was his relaying in other characters to heal. Also, to make the slam attack we have to make 3 consecutive hits (2 normal hits, one slam), so tanking is important. I just want my beta Weremoose back.

The other thing that bugs me about this is you need to pay 4 skill points for this your paying 4 skill points for a optional combat sidegrade without a clear advantage over fighting in your human state aside from not needing to worry about durability. I already had a issue that we're paying for a balance patch to make our base skill useful but now on top of that it's been made less effective overall in combat.

[chirsg]

The damage nerf makes it so you kill dragonfly maggots in 7 hits instead of 6 hits pre nerf. 
So old was 1,2 Slam, 4, 5 Slam. 
New is 1, 2, Slam, 4, 5, Slam, 7.

They hate him so much. They gave us something beautiful just to take it away. 

9 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

wait, did Klei nerfed Woodie cuz he wooshed treeguards butt in some video? 

 

Basically. I blame beard777. I never hated him before. I am absolutely livid and I hope he gets demonetized. 

[Dragonboooorn]

6 minutes ago, chirsg said:

The damage nerf makes it so you kill dragonfly maggots in 7 hits instead of 6 hits pre nerf. 
So old was 1,2 Slam, 4, 5 Slam. 
New is 1, 2, Slam, 4, 5, Slam, 7.

They hate him so much. They gave us something beautiful just to take it away. 

Basically. I blame beard777. I never hated him before. I am absolutely livid and I hope he gets demonetized. 

beard777 is a DST parasite and is literally DST wikipedia in video format.

Guy is surreal and makes video about literally anything

[chirsg]

32 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

beard777 is a DST parasite and is literally DST wikipedia in video format.

Guy is surreal and makes video about literally anything

I literally blame him for the moose nerf. Look at what he did. 

[Dragonboooorn]

3 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I literally blame him for the moose nerf. Look at what he did. 

woodie can kill easiest mob in the game 20 seconds faster pls nerf

[NNOUS]

man think how cheap is goose and how many damage he can dish out comparing to a stack of dark swards. you just cant let it out damage the most op weapon.

let along the free armor form the goose.

[Dextops]

3 minutes ago, NNOUS said:

man think how cheap is goose and how many damage he can dish out comparing to a stack of dark swards. you just cant let it out damage the most op weapon.

let along the free armor form the goose.

Except you’re probably just better off staying in human form which was the biggest problem with woodie beforehand and the fact that weremoose comes with more risk.

[Theukon-dos]

I understand why Klei felt the need to nerf Weremoose. But I think in doing so showed a large flaw in relying on skill trees to buff underwhelming characters. 

Previously, Weremoose's problem was that it was effective enough, but didn't scale past the early game. His damage was relatively low, and all the armor in the world didn't mean anything if Weremoose couldn't heal off the damage it took. Meaning that it was quickly outclassed within the first few days once the player got a hambat and log suit. This problem of not scaling applies to Woodie as a whole obviously, but for now we'll just focus on the Weremoose. 

However, with the addition of skill trees, Klei... didn't actually fix this issue. Instead of giving Woodie a way to scale into the end-game. They just buffed his early-game to end-game levels. This certainly worked to make Weremoose, y'know. Good. But because Weremoose can now replace a weapon; armor; light source; and healing; All for the extremely low price of 3 monster meat and some grass, it means that Woodie can fight a lot of things in this game with basically 0 prep time. 

I actually don't think that is issue in the current game. While yes, Woodie is strong enough to fight raid bosses day 1, there aren't actually that many options for him to choose from. For all it's power, Weremoose is still unable to use items, limiting its effectiveness against any boss that needs more than were-necessities. Toadstool is out of the question because of the spore caps. Dragonfly is doable. Bee Queen is... apparently possible by using the charge attack to hit-and-run her for half an hour, though I don't know if it's still as such with the regen nerfs. And the Twins are definitely possible, but have fun having to summon them 5 nights in a row. 

All that being said, even if it's not an issue now, it is something that could very, very easily become an issue later. If Klei where to, say: Rework Bee Queen to not be a spammy peice of tosh and instead be a somewhat skill-based fight or add a new, relatively easy raid boss during the coming early-game reworks. Then suddenly having the strength to fight raid bosses with 0 prep time means that Woodie is going to be getting some of the strongest items in the game by the time other players are just getting a science machine up and running. 

This is an oddly specific example, I do admit. But I use it because the Uncompromising Mode mod conveniently does both these things and gives us a glimpse into a future where Klei does similar. And, uh. Yeah it's not a pretty sight. For the bosses that is, it's an absolutely beautiful picture for all the Woodie mains out there. 

If you can't or don't want to watch the whole thing, Bee Queen fight starts at 11:20 about half-way through Day 2, and ends at 20:35, just over half-way through Day 3. He then finds and starts the fight against Hooded Widow; a modded boss roughly between Deerclops and Klaus in terms of difficulty; at 29:27, and she is killed by 31:17.

Now again, this is 100% a modded scenario, and not something that Woodie can do right now. But it is indicative of what Woodie could do if not kept in check. After all, the only things UM did in this case was add one boss and make another one not suck ass. 

As said before, I do think that this is a failing in the addition of skill trees. Sense they're buffing characters directly and are available right from the word "go", it means that Klei has to walk to very precarious line of "making Moose strong enough to be relevant in the mid-late game" and "not making Moose so overwhelming that it dominates the early game". But if this extra strength was instead tied too, say, upgraded idols, then there's be no such issue, sense getting this strength would take a good bit more prep work. 

 

Am I just looking for excuses to complain about skill trees? Yes, obviously. Am I still right? also yes. Could Klei integrate upgraded idols into skill trees anyways? Hate to say it, but yes again.

[Mysterious box]

48 minutes ago, NNOUS said:

man think how cheap is goose and how many damage he can dish out comparing to a stack of dark swards. you just cant let it out damage the most op weapon.

let along the free armor form the goose.

The dark sword is a extremely available weapon that can be unlocked in the first few days that places zero restrictions on the player's actions vs the Moose that places a restriction on healing, a restriction on items that would allow you to move faster, makes a window of vulnerability where you can take damage without armor, doesn't allow you to pick up drops, and doesn't allow you to engage with boss mechanics beyond punching.    

[IAmAFurrz]

Time to drop playing woodie all together bc klei decided having fun was too much to ask for