justice for woodie (don't close this one please?)

[Dextops]

My other thread got closed and i think it was because i guess i didn't elaborate enough. These nerfs were completely unnecessary and i don't really see the point in investing in the weremoose mastery anymore when i can just fight in my regular form instead, just really sucks that woodie seemed to be in a good spot and got nerfed for reasons i don't know.

[PapaHepatitis]

I can do more DPS as woodie with a ham bat I'm pretty sure, so theres literally no point in going into moose form now since his gimmick was he cant use items but does alot of damage, now he pretty much does neither

[DementiaHaver8]

I understand the treeguard idol change a LITTLE, but the other nerfs aren't deserved

[Ironkid]

I honestly cant believe that someone played weremoose and thought "wow this is OP."

Considering that you cant use items or your inventory, is a very, very big downside. Other than fighting a lot of bees, for whatever reason, base human Woodie, is Woodie's real combat form. Only turn into moose if you want to deal less damage or get rid of a lot of your hunger stat in a short amount of time.

[MadMatt]

Atleast I don't have to worry about wasting a perk point on the Weremoose mastery until I open rifts. I guess. 

Silver lining folks!

[Ironkid]

I did wish for a reason to do beaver mastery, i guess nerfing moose answered that wish.

[Mysterious box]

Honestly I just completely hate this patch based on what I've seen other than the idol change none of the nerfs were deserved and just makes me ask once more what about characters like Maxwell?

[Dextops]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Honestly I just completely hate this patch based on what I've seen other than the idol change none of the nerfs were deserved and just makes me ask once more what about characters like Maxwell?

it's sad because i like the wormwood changes they're pretty neat (except for a few things) but the woodie changes were really unnecessary 

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Dextops said:

it's sad because i like the wormwood changes they're pretty neat (except for a few things) but the woodie changes were really unnecessary 

I'll have to check those out alongside the butchered lumberjack later i guess.

[W0l0l0]

Would be cool if moose could get additional damage resistance when charging. That way you could still charge to absorb damage more effectively as a pseudo kite.

[MadMatt]

Honestly i'd be behind the idea of nerfing the DPS if there was any other utility. Maybe stun resistance when standing still to encourage tanking? It'd also make the AoE a useful factor since your counter to slam wouldn't get reset while you get stunlocked.

[Mysterious box]

Another thing I feel isn't getting enough attention is the hp regen nerf on a form that already can't heal freely I'm no Woodie main I'll admit but this just seems overly cruel.

[PapaHepatitis]

its funny aswell because some people think that weremoose was made for tanking, which too some extent he kind of is, but the DPS buff made him more than that aswell, hes now capable of doing damage as well as taking hits

[Arcwell]

While I don't think the weremoose nerf is nearly as bad as people are making it out to be, I'm not really sure why it happened in the first place.

4 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

Honestly i'd be behind the idea of nerfing the DPS if there was any other utility. Maybe stun resistance when standing still to encourage tanking? It'd also make the AoE a useful factor since your counter to slam wouldn't get reset while you get stunlocked.

I'd support that. Getting hitstunned out of the combo makes it very unviable for use on certain fights, namely Bee Queen. Coupled with the now halved health regen, I'd say the risk of tanking more than deserves protection from hitstuns ruining combos.

[PapaHepatitis]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Another thing I feel isn't getting enough attention is the hp regen nerf on a form that already can't heal freely I'm no Woodie main I'll admit but this just seems overly cruel.

This nerf is very easy to circumvent with something like jelly beans, or just using healing foods intermittently throughout say a boss fight inbetween idol uses, however the damage nerf is the truly cruel part of the nerf

[-Variant]

I think it's alright. I feel like the reaction is pretty kneejerk.

He was nigh able to facetank Bearger beforehand, the current health regen still keeps him aloft in battle but it also opens up room for having other means of healing to get back to that super strong state. Wortox teamwork and jellybeans come to mind!
You're still absurdly strong and if you're getting your dodges in here and there you can make decent recoveries. I quite like the change, makes you think a bit more.

[chirsg]

It's the clickbait propaganda that made it so this was nerfed.

The "Muh 900 damage WEREMOOSE OMG OP" really got to the devs, didn't they?

Like, let's break it down. Those humongous figures were applied against treeguards with the double damage perk, and not just that, they were used in tandem with warly's spice, and let's face it, literally no one actually mains warly. 

You have to BEG another player to go warly when they're on character select. 

That 136 damage are figures that wolfgang gets pretty early on in the game if you applied yourself and don't even get me started on wanda. 

Perspective: Wanda, Wolfgang and Maxwell can stun dragonfly and obtain an additional scale SOLO. Max moose Woodie could not achieve this even with his 136 damage slam.

His DPS was modest. The 136 damage is simply a treat. 

Influencers should uninstall game, honestly. Their "information" is the absolute opposite of information and they do not provide context behind the "damage figures" which they deem as OP.

 

Just now, -Variant said:

I think it's alright. I feel like the reaction is pretty kneejerk.

He was nigh able to facetank Bearger beforehand, the current health regen still keeps him aloft in battle but it also opens up room for having other means of healing to get back to that super strong state. Wortox teamwork and jellybeans come to mind!
You're still absurdly strong and if you're getting your dodges in here and there you can make decent recoveries. I quite like the change, makes you think a bit more.

No. Let us have nice things. Please read my points. Bearger is an irrelevant boss. There's more value in using a hambat and never getting hit vs tnakingLMAO.

Also, bearger is an asset and a pet. Rephrase your counterpoints.

[MadMatt]

1 minute ago, -Variant said:

I quite like the change, makes you think a bit more.

No it doesn't? It just makes this high cost ability worse than something you can do without a cost. 

If you're referring to the HP regen then that's fine, but the slam nerf was uncalled for and unhelpful considering how bad it felt even before the nerf. The Weremoose always still had difficulty with bosses with gimmicks and now he has an even harder time with them for no discernible reason other than making the slam damage equal to 2 Weremoose hits.

[chirsg]

Dedicated Woodie mains have done the math. It's not a fair change. It isn't knee jerk. Don't invalidate honest concerns with your phrasing. 

 

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, PapaHepatitis said:

This nerf is very easy to circumvent with something like jelly beans, or just using healing foods intermittently throughout say a boss fight inbetween idol uses, however the damage nerf is the truly cruel part of the nerf

Yeah you can gloss over by using jelly beans or you could just fight as a human and be safer all around while dealing more damage the biggest crime in all this for me is when I look at Woodie vs Maxwell a character who comes out of the portal superior to him without using skill points and will get a skill tree in the future that widens that gap.

You shouldn't need a outside source to make a form that's already supposed to be made for combat better his regeneration was the reward for proper kitting that reward being if you did well you were allowed to make more mistakes in high risk battles. If I need a boss drop to make an already risky form worthwhile why am I even using the form.

[chirsg]

18 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Another thing I feel isn't getting enough attention is the hp regen nerf on a form that already can't heal freely I'm no Woodie main I'll admit but this just seems overly cruel.

I will reluctantly say it's fair. I'm pretty much a Woodie main, failing that, Woodie partial. 
The regen nerf... and it pains me to say it... Was warranted. 

[Lardee]

I'ma test it out today, but my opinion right now is that the reduced health regeneration was a little necessary. The 3 HP every 5 seconds coupled with all his new movement options and his extended Weretimer let you make an enormous amount of avoidable mistakes and still win fights.  The only fight that I think the reduced regen really affects is the Bee Queen one, the others can be supplemented with better kiting/charge canceling skill.

[-Variant]

4 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

If you're referring to the HP regen then that's fine

Alas, I was.

The slam is whatever to me, it could be stronger, it does two punches worth of damage in an AOE so that'll still AOE shot spiders which is all I need.
I'm 50/50, no strong feelings on the slam.

[chirsg]

1 minute ago, Lardee said:

I'ma test it out today, but my opinion right now is that the reduced health regeneration was a little necessary. The 3 HP every 5 seconds coupled with all his new movement options and his extended Weretimer let you make an enormous amount of avoidable mistakes and still win fights.  The only fight that I think the reduced regen really affects is the Bee Queen one, the others can be supplemented with better kiting/charge canceling skill.

Even with the HP regen nerf, I think there will still be ways to creatively manage the fight, assuming we get the old slam back. 

The figures you stated when smashing the grumbles factor in more than HP regen. Breakpoints are often more important than allowing a few more hits. Ironically, with this principal, Wigfrid gets hit a lot less than other characters during hound waves by virtue of her breakpoints.  

[MadMatt]

1 minute ago, -Variant said:

it does two punches worth of damage in an AOE so that'll still AOE shot spiders which is all I need.

But that AoE is tiny, gets interrupted by any hits, and if you move an inch it also resets. The AoE is virtually useless for any situation it's really useful in as it currently stands which is why the damage nerf really feels like a slap in the face when the slam should've gotten a buff in some regard to make it's other aspect useful.