My idea for crab king

[nightmarefan]

ok so this is a very WIP thing-de-hookey but:
i think klei has a solution to make crab king great again (even though he never was in the first place) that answer is to somewhat base his fight around quacken's.
so basically: gems socketed, he tries to pinch ya every like 5-7 hits and after the first 1000-1500 health is gone he pushes the boat away, something that can't be countered, exept with an anchor that slows you down. (how far away he pushes the boat is determined by orange gems)
so you have to paddle back to him, watch out for freezing as his first attack as soon as you get close to him,then pinchers every 5-7 hits again, from now on every 1000-1500 health he pushes you away again but adds something everytime, like the second time adds the claws that will block your boat and when they do, he starts healing.(determined by red gems) repeat until dead.
all the other gems would work the same and i can't bother rn to look up what each and every one of them does frankly it's just a WIP i came up with on the spot thinking about quacken and the parallels between crab king
and i'm sure you could work the splashes fairly in there.
i think they should follow something like this or at least the quacken as a bassline anyways even if you think my idea is stupid.

i'm not saying this idea is THE solution but what i'm trying to point out is that this could be the direction to go to with the fight.
anyways lemme know what you fellers think about it and feel free to add/**** on some (or all lol) the things i proposed k bye cya.

[bloopah]

I feel a bit icky about your healing suggestion, but otherwise it's a good idea to make him better.

Also why heal with Red Gems? His healing is currently influenced by Green Gems.

[ADM]

I don't see how it would be better if CK was Malbatrossified with direct damage and pushing things, he’s uniquely good already but at best needs some easing for solo players.

[bloopah]

4 minutes ago, ADM said:

he’s uniquely good already

If he's already this, then why do people keep complaining about the boss being the worst one in the game?

[ADM]

3 minutes ago, bloopah said:

If he's already this, then why do people keep complaining about the boss being the worst one in the game?

Skill issue ? Like legitimately. I doubt much players even try to get good at beating this boss because it looks too hard and far in the game to practice correctly, just like beginners who don’t get what kitting is and get shredded to their first few Deerclops. So I used to be very confused by CK when the boss released but after understanding the fight fully I learned to love it.

[Cheggf]

20 minutes ago, bloopah said:

If he's already this, then why do people keep complaining about the boss being the worst one in the game?

People also complain about Bee Queen or Toadstool being the worst boss in the game, but if you question them on those it becomes clear they've never even tried the fights they're complaining about. I'm guessing they either assume it's going to be too hard or give a single underprepared half-hearted attempt then decide it's too hard. 

And even if someone did learn how to properly do the Crab King fight and still doesn't like it, that's not proof that it's bad or not unique. That's just proof that that person doesn't like it. 

[ADM]

Btw… I'm not saying that the state of the game for the ocean and boat side is ideal to deal with CK tho, all the good things that can help you practice vs big dangers are pointless against CK like reviving tools so the problem players are having is to figure out how to train against a boss that eliminates your boat and tp you with your inventory away when you loose, it’s the biggest investment in time to learn that boss and failure discourage more as it will take a while before retrying such a difficult battle.

There could be more seafaring modules to work with boat fights in general. I've modded a funny thing that I tested against CK lately which is a Vessel Saving Necklace, essentially a red amulet that slowly repairs and patch your boat and saves it from cracking when it’s too late, purely behaves like saving players but adapted for boats. 

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

People also complain about Bee Queen or Toadstool being the worst boss in the game, but if you question them on those it becomes clear they've never even tried the fights they're complaining about. I'm guessing they either assume it's going to be too hard or give a single underprepared half-hearted attempt then decide it's too hard. 

And even if someone did learn how to properly do the Crab King fight and still doesn't like it, that's not proof that it's bad or not unique. That's just proof that that person doesn't like it. 

So you're saying, if people dislike a boss, they are either just making stuff up without actually engaging with the content or just "doesn't like it", and thus makes them opinion subjective and worthless, and the boss is still good? That's...not a convincing argument.

[Pet Rock]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

People also complain about Bee Queen or Toadstool being the worst boss in the game, but if you question them on those it becomes clear they've never even tried the fights they're complaining about. I'm guessing they either assume it's going to be too hard or give a single underprepared half-hearted attempt then decide it's too hard. 

I don't know if I speak for anyone else but I definitely have tried all the above fights and invalidating people's criticism because you assume they haven't tried beating the bosses is a bit ignorant.

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

And even if someone did learn how to properly do the Crab King fight and still doesn't like it, that's not proof that it's bad or not unique. That's just proof that that person doesn't like it. 

Obviously, but if a lot of people dislike a boss it is usually a sign that that boss is bad/needs adjustments. 

[Cheggf]

9 hours ago, Pet Rock said:

I don't know if I speak for anyone else but I definitely have tried all the above fights and invalidating people's criticism because you assume they haven't tried beating the bosses is a bit ignorant.

You are the most recent example of who I was thinking of as I wrote that. You said that tanking isn't intended (and bad for some reason). You said that picking a different character, using NPCs to help you, making VGCF, placing structures like catapults or houndius shootius, wearing bramble armor, and placing walls are all exploits which no one could ever figure out on their own. You say that if you fight Bee Queen you can only hit her once every 30 seconds, an enormous exaggeration clearly showing you haven't actually fought her. 

To say that I'm the ignorant one after making all of those claims is a bit silly.

[Popian]

11 hours ago, _zwb said:

So you're saying, if people dislike a boss, they are either just making stuff up without actually engaging with the content or just "doesn't like it", and thus makes them opinion subjective and worthless, and the boss is still good? That's...not a convincing argument.

A solution to dealing with Crab King head on without brute forcing was only shared 3 days ago, I think most peoples' impressions on it still do not take that into account. Paired with bees to handle the healing and deal extra dps it's not as expensive to prep for as one would have originally thought.

[Kelloggs Dogfry]

Yeah I rarely would ever call it a skill issue, but I mean, it kind of seems to be a recurring thing in this game that people talk about these bosses while not understanding much about them. Like, CK really does have a very simple workaround if you REALLY don’t want to fight him. Maybe it’s a bad take, but I also just think there’s a particularly vocal group of people on the forums who don’t like him, and I don’t think that’s representative of everyone who plays this game. I’d imagine a lot of people fall under the, they don’t know he exists, or are indifferent umbrella. 
 

I struggle with the ideas to fix CK, because I think he’s designed incredibly well as a multiplayer co-op boss, which I love and wish there were more mechanically driven team bosses. This lends itself to being the problem where it is harder for an individual player to handle it and, in conjunction with being really punishing, leads to very immediate negative reactions from some members here. Perhaps down the line Klei can come up with a solution that allows this to be slightly more approachable, so that they continue to come up with bosses that encourage teamwork, but not at the detriment to being very difficult to an average solo player.
 

Perhaps with CK, I think the claws can be problematic when solo unless you have various workarounds, but it definitely seems there is a consensus about his healing being an issue. I think there needing to be a threshold for how many hits it takes to cancel it, and the fact that it can scale up with gems, is a very odd choice. That honestly would probably be the simplest thing they could look at to reduce frustration, and I don’t think it would affect the multiplayer experience at all. At least personally speaking I never notice the two hits being a problem when I play with one other. 

[Pet Rock]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

You are the most recent example of who I was thinking of as I wrote that. You said that tanking isn't intended (and bad for some reason). You said that picking a different character, using NPCs to help you, making VGCF, placing structures like catapults or houndius shootius, wearing bramble armor, and placing walls are all exploits which no one could ever figure out on their own. You say that if you fight Bee Queen you can only hit her once every 30 seconds, an enormous exaggeration clearly showing you haven't actually fought her. 

To say that I'm the ignorant one after making all of those claims is a bit silly.

My points stands.

Anyway, I already explained why I find tanking bad in the other thread and many methods you mention still involve it. Without tanking bee queens attack window is incredibly small (even with cobblestone + walking cane + magi luminescence). In the same thread I also did say that I found followers to be a legitimate method and I don't believe I commented on catapults.

One exaggeration that isn't even far-fetched does not mean that I haven't fought bee queen, but if you are going to keep assuming such I don't see the point in arguing.

[ZRY25010]

The King crab's fault tolerance is too low, and it can defeat other bosses with enough armor and food, but the King crab must prevent the ship from breaking down, and once the ship is broken, it is over, and maneuvering the ship in battle is almost impossible.

[viberr]

I mean, Crab king just isn't very enjoyable to a vast majority players (mostly because people don't have friends and end up soloing him)

and I personally like Malbatross(unpopular opinion, I know) so turning crab king similar to Malbatross would be neat imo, but I can definitely see why others would be against it

50 minutes ago, Kelloggs Dogfry said:

Maybe it’s a bad take, but I also just think there’s a particularly vocal group of people on the forums who don’t like him,

I don't mean to be an opinion giver, but don't you think it's the other way round? I mean, I remember almost everyone hating crab king when I used to be in the forums, and I highly doubt that's changed much( or maybe it has and I'm just a little goof) 

 

53 minutes ago, Kelloggs Dogfry said:

I’d imagine a lot of people fall under the, they don’t know he exists, or are indifferent umbrella. 
 

if you can find me one person who says crab kings "just okay", I'll give you one of my kidneys, cuz I've never heard anyone say that

but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if 40% of players who play DST don't know him and that might be an understatement

[Theukon-dos]

Imma be real, I feel like if 90% of players say a boss is bad, while the other 10% are just checking it up to a "skill issue", then I'm more inclined to side with the majority. And yes obviously these numbers are am exaggeration. But you get my point, yes?

 

Anyways, you want to know what really annoys me about the Crab King fight? How come bumpers don't help against the claws? Cannons? Sure, fine. Whatever. Not like there aren't easier ways you cheese the unfaithful bloke anyways. But bumpers? You'd think that the object specifically designed to protect the edge of your boat would help against the boss that attacks by grabbing onto the edge of your boat. But no, he just smashes them instantly because reasons. 

 

Spoiler

Insert reference towards UM's Crab King rework here.

 

 

 

[Kelloggs Dogfry]

14 hours ago, viberr said:

 

I don't mean to be an opinion giver…

 

if you can find me one person who says crab kings "just okay", I'll give you one of my kidneys, cuz I've never heard anyone say that

Opinions are always valid and you should always feel like you can give them, that’s what discussion is about!

But anyways, I don’t know how often I see someone say outright/verbatim that “he’s ok”, but I kind of chalk people in that category if they like some aspects about him and dislike others. I personally have him down as one of my favorites, but I also still can see pain points, again the healing needing multiple hits is so weird. 
 

14 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Anyways, you want to know what really annoys me about the Crab King fight? How come bumpers don't help against the claws? Cannons? Sure, fine. Whatever. Not like there aren't easier ways you cheese the unfaithful bloke anyways. But bumpers? You'd think that the object specifically designed to protect the edge of your boat would help against the boss that attacks by grabbing onto the edge of your boat. But no, he just smashes them instantly because reasons. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Insert reference towards UM's Crab King rework here.

I haven’t played in a long time, definitely before they added all the boat upgrades, but that is pretty sad to hear. You would think bumpers and cannons would be helpful, considering he is literally THE boss that is supposed to feel like a naval fight. Aside from maybe the healing, I think they should look into cannons and bumpers being useful additions to fight him.

[ADM]

14 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Anyways, you want to know what really annoys me about the Crab King fight? How come bumpers don't help against the claws? Cannons? Sure, fine. Whatever. Not like there aren't easier ways you cheese the unfaithful bloke anyways. But bumpers? You'd think that the object specifically designed to protect the edge of your boat would help against the boss that attacks by grabbing onto the edge of your boat. But no, he just smashes them instantly because reasons. 

I will always acknowledge the problems / bugs there is with the fight which I actually want to see addressed but the posts around here lately just want to turn the fight for something less unique which I wouldn't enjoy.

So I stand by what I say that the majority of the problem is lack of seafaring content to deal with CK: you fight with the bare minimum and if there was just more to combat him in its current state + receive just the minor tweaks it needs I wouldn't see how it could be bad for CK enjoyers like myself.

It's just like standard boss fight, DST doesn't just have a Spear and a Log Suit but yet we've got only one boat type (Grass Boat is bugged with claws so don't use it) and you heal your boats super slowly with something barely as good as Dragonpies, list could go on but I can also get why we don't get more if everything had to be solved just because of CK, yet we all hope sea content continues so at one point this will expand right ?