Buff followers to compensate for "Together" design.

[Cheggf]

31 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Crab king's healing literally needs at least 2 players to cnacel it, or you use weather pain.

The very same sentence you say it needs 2 players you admit it doesn't.

31 minutes ago, _zwb said:

You play with other people or waste time in resource drain, how fun!

The entire game is collecting resources and multiple players will inherently make everything easier in all aspects from gathering and exploring to fighting. You might just want to play a different game if you hate the base gameplay loop.

[_zwb]

10 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

multiple players will inherently make everything easier

But... I'm playing solo? Grinding for resources for a boss design for multiplayer is not fun if you're playing alone.

[Cheggf]

31 minutes ago, _zwb said:

But... I'm playing solo? Grinding for resources for a boss design for multiplayer is not fun if you're playing alone.

Literally the entire game is designed for multiplayer and literally everything will take longer if you're playing alone. If you hate the core gameplay loop of gathering resources and just want to get it over with because you hate the game, you should play a different game. If you just want top down fighting with no resource gathering Ravenswatch is pretty fun.

[chirsg]

On 6/16/2023 at 9:05 PM, Masked Koopa said:

-10 is added onto the minion's damage

i appreciate your pitch, but I'd say that I'd let minions keep the original damage and add a mutiny feature if you don't pay/feed your minions. 
Imagine an army of disgruntled pigmen with football helmets and dark swords all gunning to kill you.

On 6/17/2023 at 7:01 AM, _zwb said:

wickerbottom are cheater characters 

Wickerbottom is Console Commands: The Character.
For all the uncompromising monsters on the forums, they conveniently ignore how powerful wickerbottom is.
Like, seriously, it would not surprise me if Wickerbottom was a secret Klei developer.

She's actually the god of this game, yet people on the forums scream if someone complains about a boulder smashing a structure "This game is a SURVIVAL, TURN OFF THE DANGERRRRR IN THE WORLD SETTINGS"

I think wickerbottom is more or less the closest thing to cheating, like, ever.

I would gladly throw her under the bus just to properly control rifts.

Death as wickerbottom at this point is a skill.

It takes less effort to live as her than it does to die.

 

[Masked Koopa]

45 minutes ago, chirsg said:

i appreciate your pitch, but I'd say that I'd let minions keep the original damage and add a mutiny feature if you don't pay/feed your minions. 
Imagine an army of disgruntled pigmen with football helmets and dark swords all gunning to kill you.

The idea was moreso to make it consistent with how player damages work. Wilson deals 10 damage with his bare fist, so the spear's 34 damage is a +24 boost. The idea is that a pig wouldn't get +34 damage from a spear, but +24, the same as Wilson.

While I'm unsure about them attacking you over it, I certainly think that putting a lot of the focus on the feeding would balance out the higher grade nature of the minions. If a weapon-wielding minion is more expensive to keep fed, then you have more reason to invest enhancers into that one minion like armour and healing salves.

I think overall it would be good to better facilitate a minion-focused approach to combat that doesn't just involve spamming a gajillion minions. Ideally they are useful enough to where giving them high-grade gear isn't considered less useful than spamming additional minions, because the former is actually costly while the latter tends to be infinite use. I'm not even against minion spam existing, I just think that some bosses aren't combatible with that sort of thing, with crab king and FW having very cramped arenas, and toadstool having way too much AOE damage for minions to endure. IMO players should be able to treat pigs/merms as brand new wilson players - if you give them the exact gear they need, and tell them exactly what to do, they'll be able to be somewhat effective against threats that are designed to be taken on by players. The downside is you'll be responsible for providing them with all of their equipment, food, etc.

[Evelo]

On 6/16/2023 at 5:05 AM, gamehun20 said:

I wonder why they design a boss for multiple people in a game called "don't starve together" 

Yeah but you should still be able to have fun alone. Mainly since DST has the endlessness in mind but DS solo does not.

(Granted I have fun solo but not everyone does with the boss difficulty (AFW/CK) or huge HP pools. (TS/BQ))

[Mike23Ua]

19 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Literally the entire game is designed for multiplayer and literally everything will take longer if you're playing alone. If you hate the core gameplay loop of gathering resources and just want to get it over with because you hate the game, you should play a different game. If you just want top down fighting with no resource gathering Ravenswatch is pretty fun.

See here’s the thing- and I’m assuming this is the part everyone at Klei seems to forget or not care enough about to consider.

I did not buy DST expecting to play a game that “Requires” Other players, and I did not expect them to Design a ton of content around the thought that you’d HAVE 4-6 players.. all I ever wanted when I bought DST was Dont Starve, but with friends!

In fact due to how horribly “forced” multiplayer feels for DST (Aka bosses with endlessly spawning minions or a literal “Smite Ganking” of Mobs on a Wooden Boat Platform like Cookie Cutters, Pirate Monkeys, Sea Striders) 

I would much prefer they just add 2-3 player coop to Solo DS, and if they did I’d completely stop playing DST.

It’s not fun, nor is it challenging to tackle Multiplayer Focused Content in Solo.

At least not for me it isn’t.

And lately it’s been getting WORSE because they’re starting to lock the type of Content I actually ENJOY (such as new weather hazards or new mobs) behind needing to Fight these multiplayer focused bosses- Thank god they had the heart to allow the newer content to be toggled On in World Gen Settings.

Cause I don’t think I’ll ever have enough friends playing DST at any given time to tackle mission objectives & bosses the “Intended Way”

Im serious: If Klei just Remasters DS on Xbox Series X/S and adds as little as 2 player online Co-op, I’d completely stop playing DST.

I don’t NEED nor do I WANT to Cooperate with 4-5 Strangers.

[_zwb]

7 hours ago, chirsg said:

Wickerbottom is Console Commands: The Character.
For all the uncompromising monsters on the forums, they conveniently ignore how powerful wickerbottom is.
Like, seriously, it would not surprise me if Wickerbottom was a secret Klei developer.

She's actually the god of this game, yet people on the forums scream if someone complains about a boulder smashing a structure "This game is a SURVIVAL, TURN OFF THE DANGERRRRR IN THE WORLD SETTINGS"

I think wickerbottom is more or less the closest thing to cheating, like, ever.

I would gladly throw her under the bus just to properly control rifts.

Death as wickerbottom at this point is a skill.

It takes less effort to live as her than it does to die.

 

Wait a second, I didn't say playing her is cheating did I?

On 6/17/2023 at 8:06 AM, Cheggf said:

Literally the entire game is designed for multiplayer

Yet more than half of the servers have only 1 player. That's a problematic design isn't it?

[Masked Koopa]

Ya'll I don't want to be too much of a stickler, but the point of this thread was pitching whether or not AI could replace players in the "together" designed aspects of the game, not debating whether or not they should or do exist. Not saying that isn't a worthwhile discussion, but it probably belongs in its own thread.

[Cheggf]

10 hours ago, _zwb said:

Yet more than half of the servers have only 1 player. That's a problematic design isn't it?

No. I play single player just fine, and they do too. We like DST, you don't. That's the core issue here. The gameplay loop is gathering things to accomplish goals, then repeating that. You hate the first half, you think the first half is boring, you think the first half is "problematic design". Again, I recommend something like Ravenswatch if you just want to fight things without preparation. This clearly isn't the game for you. Other games have better combat systems, other games don't have the preparation that you think is terrible, other games have more enemies and variety. If you just want to fight this is not the game.

[Mike23Ua]

10 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

Ya'll I don't want to be too much of a stickler, but the point of this thread was pitching whether or not AI could replace players in the "together" designed aspects of the game, not debating whether or not they should or do exist. Not saying that isn't a worthwhile discussion, but it probably belongs in its own thread.

Well, the games mobs are stupid, like really really dumb.. and 500 Pigmen equipped with Brightshade Helms and Brightshade Swords (yes I know they can’t hold weapons.. this is just a What if scenario) aren’t going to be nowhere NEAR as effective as 3 Wolfgang’s and 2 Wendy’s.

I feel like that if DST was intended to ONLY be a multiplayer/group focused game, that Klei should’ve designed it so that NPC’s will be available on your Team when playing alone.

for example- Left 4 Dead is a game that heavily encouraged TeamWork, but yet.. you could play Alone with Bots filling in your team mates.

So if Klei is designing game content around the idea that I’ll have a Wolfgang and Wendy on my team, then they need to put in the extra effort to make them available as Bot teammates.

If they’re Designing Multiplayer Centric Boats around the intention that I’ll have other players on board to raise sails, drop anchors, help fight the swarms of Mobs that invade- ETC then they need to go the extra step and allow us to have other survivors as BoTs to help do these tasks.

Because Pigmen, Merms, Rocklobsters, Bunnymen Etc… just aren’t going to cut the dice.

I want an NPC Wigfrid on my team I can give resources to craft helms and spears too and she’s actually smart enough to craft me a Helm and Spear.

I know that at the very least the PS5 & Series X is capable of this kind of smarter A.I.

But- it stands the chance of running into the same problems L4D had- Bots being too smart, knowing perfect Dodge/kiting, one shooting mobs you don’t even notice, etc.

Even still if I’m supposed to be lead to believe all these characters were pulled into the same “Realm” to work together, I’d like to see the option to have them as bot team mates.

And for players who don’t want Bot Survivor teammates, there’s still the option to play Solo. (But hopefully with major tweaks and tuning to make the game more fair for Solo..)

 

[Zhollow]

4 hours ago, Cheggf said:

No. I play single player just fine, and they do too. We like DST, you don't. That's the core issue here. The gameplay loop is gathering things to accomplish goals, then repeating that. You hate the first half, you think the first half is boring, you think the first half is "problematic design". Again, I recommend something like Ravenswatch if you just want to fight things without preparation. This clearly isn't the game for you. Other games have better combat systems, other games don't have the preparation that you think is terrible, other games have more enemies and variety. If you just want to fight this is not the game.

I don't get your point... Sorry for the intrusion, but don't you agree there should be a option for someone to balance Mobs/Boss health with the player amount on the server? Like, you could turn it off/on If you wanted. More options don't really affect the game for everyone.

 

And well, i think "stupid" followers are fine.

[Masked Koopa]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Well, the games mobs are stupid, like really really dumb.. and 500 Pigmen equipped with Brightshade Helms and Brightshade Swords (yes I know they can’t hold weapons.. this is just a What if scenario) aren’t going to be nowhere NEAR as effective as 3 Wolfgang’s and 2 Wendy’s.

If they’re Designing Multiplayer Centric Boats around the intention that I’ll have other players on board to raise sails, drop anchors, help fight the swarms of Mobs that invade- ETC then they need to go the extra step and allow us to have other survivors as BoTs to help do these tasks.

Because Pigmen, Merms, Rocklobsters, Bunnymen Etc… just aren’t going to cut the dice.

I want an NPC Wigfrid on my team I can give resources to craft helms and spears too and she’s actually smart enough to craft me a Helm and Spear.

I feel as though you're severely overestimating the level of challenge the game actually has. Most of the game can be played without significant issues simply by playing with a single friend. Having 3 Wolfgangs and 2 Wendies is complete overkill in every scenario. I don't see how Pigmen and the others could not serve as a replacement for extra players, even if it's only to some degree. You really wanna tell me there'd be no utility in them lowering the anchor and dropping the sails the moment you stop steering, and vice versa if you start steering? No use in them killing woven shadows instead of trying to kill FW in vain? It feels like you're convinced that because these followers currently don't meet the requirements you're setting, they cannot alleiviate the game's issues in any way.

[Copyafriend]

8 hours ago, Cheggf said:

No. I play single player just fine, and they do too. We like DST, you don't. That's the core issue here. The gameplay loop is gathering things to accomplish goals, then repeating that. You hate the first half, you think the first half is boring, you think the first half is "problematic design". Again, I recommend something like Ravenswatch if you just want to fight things without preparation. This clearly isn't the game for you. Other games have better combat systems, other games don't have the preparation that you think is terrible, other games have more enemies and variety. If you just want to fight this is not the game

Man, thats all just your opinion, quit stating it as a facr

i understand klei is allowed to balance it around multiplayer, and theres nothing inherently wrong with them doing so, but a solo player is still allowed to want a fair experience for them. Which solo is not fair. I didnt say it was unbeatable, but needing season specific boss loot to fight the spongiest boss in the game is obviously unfun. You are allowed to enjoy killing moose goose and her mosslings five times a year, but personally its just a chore i need to go handle if i’m gonna fight crabking and cancel his healing or toadstool for his unique light source. 

he likes the game just fine, he likes the gameplay loop just fine. disliking having to farm one specific resource or disliking a boss being extremely multiplayer centric doesnt make him bad and doesn’t make him “dislike the game” (honestly my guy saying that is just rude asf, he’s allowed to complain even if you think its dumb) 

its not an mmo, people who are going to be competent enough to fight a raid boss arent going to randomly join often. Its multiplayer but honestly ive played with a second player less than thirty times and my fiance loves the game. 
 

multiplayer capable doesn’t necessarily mean that it should be multiplayer FOCUSED. I personally have no strong opinions except for where you’re strongly asserting that you’re correct and the other person just doesnt like the game.

[Zillvr]

Friendly warning to everyone, keep posts polite and on topic. Discuss your points civilly and if you can't, move on. Live and let live. Different players, play games differently and that should be fine.

[Zhollow]

10 minutes ago, Zillvr said:

Friendly warning to everyone, keep posts polite and on topic. Discuss your points civilly and if you can't, move on. Live and let live. Different players, play games differently and that should be fine.

Agreed.

[Masked Koopa]

On 6/19/2023 at 9:27 AM, Zhollow said:

I don't get your point... Sorry for the intrusion, but don't you agree there should be a option for someone to balance Mobs/Boss health with the player amount on the server? Like, you could turn it off/on If you wanted. More options don't really affect the game for everyone.

 

And well, i think "stupid" followers are fine.

The point of making followers less stupid (not smart, mind you, just less stupid) is to create an option for a solo player to fight these bosses in a way that more closely matches what klei had in mind when making the boss, instead of trying to scale HP or change the attack patterns to attempt balance more akin to singleplayer. It feels like a more elegant solution, since it maintains the idea of playing "together", even when alone.

[dois raios]

On 6/16/2023 at 8:49 AM, Gashzer said:

Woodie has a unique interaction with werepigs. 15 football helmetted pigs during a long winter full moon can kill bee queen... you lose out in the royal jelly cause the werepigs eat it but its good for the blueprint and crown.

Could you explain this in more details if you dont mind, I dont think I understood how it would work

[bloopah]

5 minutes ago, dois raios said:

Could you explain this in more details if you dont mind, I dont think I understood how it would work

I guess he means that a group of Werepigs can easily kill Bee Queen, with Woodie having the perk that he wont get targeted by them due to being in his Were-form as well. But if we're talking about character-specific ways of killing Bee Queen, then Wickerbottom's Tentacles are still a better solution. You don't need to craft 15 Football Helmets for Pigs (only for yourself if you're clumsy) and you don't have to wait until a full moon to fight her. Tentacles also don't scatter when she yells in her last two phases.

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, dois raios said:

Could you explain this in more details if you dont mind, I dont think I understood how it would work

Like bloopah said, woodie in any of his wereforms is considered neutral to werepigs. During the first winter full moon, 15 werepigs with atleast 5-6 of them armoured with woodie also transforming into a weremoose just before the pigs do, can kill bee queen. The werepigs instantly target bee queen.

If a werepig dies however the rest of the werepigs rush to eat his remains and get open to free hits from the bee queen and her bees. So its important to clear the battle field of consumables and to armour them up. 

Its fun watching them absolutely devour her. 

[Evelo]

On 6/16/2023 at 1:58 PM, Gashzer said:

Using followers isnt cheese tho.

Cheese == exploit.

Followers arnt exploits. Otherwise wurt, webber and wickerbottom are cheater characters 

He is right you know, despite disagreeing with you frequently.

Now my question is. Is using Killer Bees on Crabking Cheese or a feature? Hmmm.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Evelo said:

Now my question is. Is using Killer Bees on Crabking Cheese or a feature? Hmmm.

It’s a big brain move is what I’ll be classifying it as.

[Yuuko]

18 minutes ago, Evelo said:

He is right you know, despite disagreeing with you frequently.

Now my question is. Is using Killer Bees on Crabking Cheese or a feature? Hmmm.

What about bee mines?  Pretty much the same thing, but literally a constructable item in game, no mods, doing the exact same thing.

Killer bees is just getting the same result with a different method, how is this cheese?  tbh the way they designed CK's health and regen is absurd.  As it is now, I don't feel bad no matter what method is employed to counter this.  Using a weather pain is no more or less intended then bee mines, or capturing killer bees.

[Popian]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

Now my question is. Is using Killer Bees on Crabking Cheese or a feature? Hmmm.

It's a nice callback to Pearl and her bee box.

[DinsdaleP]

On 6/16/2023 at 10:03 PM, Creatorofswamps said:

On 6/16/2023 at 1:49 PM, Gashzer said:

Toadstool wrecks followers but thats ok, followers shouldnt help with all bosses.

* the merm guards giggle from around the corner*

has there been a change with them? to the best of my knowledge, boomshrooms and his stomp can absolutely shred them.