thinking about walter ammo for an second

[edulopes]

i was thinking about planar defense stuff and all, and just had an tought, what about walter, all is slingshot ammo dont have planar ofensive status, thus making it worse than already were, shouldt walter have an new ammo type with planar damage so that the slingshot have some viability ?

[ShadowDuelist]

Yes, definitely.

But I still wouldn’t like if the new planar damage pellet is the only viable ammo for walter, hopefully they will “at least” make either his slingshot shoot faster or the old pellets deal more damage, so the slingshot feels useful throughout the whole game.
Ideally give him a RMB charged shot that deals AOE, that would be a huge improvement and it would be transversal to all the old pellets.

Another option is to give every shot of Walter the bouncing effect the new staff got, but just not as strong as the staff. let’s say each pellet you shoot bounces 3 times. That will give a bit more punch even if it remains slow.

As for planar damage they don’t even have to give him an expensive new pellet, maybe Walter can improve the slingshot itself so it automatically adds 5 planar damage to all the old pellets

[edulopes]

7 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Yes, definitely.

But I still wouldn’t like if the new planar damage pellet is the only viable ammo for walter, hopefully they will “at least” make either his slingshot shoot faster or the old pellets deal more damage, so the slingshot feels useful throughout the whole game.
Ideally give him a RMB charged shot that deals AOE, that would be a huge improvement and it would be transversal to all the old pellets.

Another option is to give every shot of Walter the bouncing effect the new staff got, but just not as strong as the staff. let’s say each pellet you shoot bounces 3 times. That will give a bit more punch even if it remains slow.

that is an great idea too, maybie better than mine, i mylself dont play walter that much, i am more of a maxwell player, but when i started to think about how bad of an state his slingshot is now and againts those flowers it looked even worse when my friend tried to kill them, and may be worse from what we have to come ( new mobs), this would be an great buff/ incentive to play walter now and in the future
 

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Yes, definitely.

But I still wouldn’t like if the new planar damage pellet is the only viable ammo for walter, hopefully they will “at least” make either his slingshot shoot faster or the old pellets deal more damage, so the slingshot feels useful throughout the whole game.
Ideally give him a RMB charged shot that deals AOE, that would be a huge improvement and it would be transversal to all the old pellets.

Another option is to give every shot of Walter the bouncing effect the new staff got, but just not as strong as the staff. let’s say each pellet you shoot bounces 3 times. That will give a bit more punch even if it remains slow.

As for planar damage they don’t even have to give him an expensive new pellet, maybe Walter can improve the slingshot itself so it automatically adds 5 planar damage to all the old pellets

Agreed here it'd be nice to be able to use slingshot without feeling like we're handicapping ourselves. It's still weird to me how much effort goes into mass producing ammo and juggling the extremely small ammo stack size only for it to end up as just a tool with niche applications.

[Mike23Ua]

Just let him load and launch Brightshade bombs from the slingshot.

[edulopes]

On 4/15/2023 at 6:00 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Just let him load and launch Brightshade bombs from the slingshot.

i think both

[Theukon-dos]

Planar damage as a whole heavily punishes any "unique" way of doing damage. Even ignoring how it ignores damage modifiers. 

 

>Beefalo are useless

>Wanda can't use her alarming clock

>Walter can't use his slingshot

>Wurt and Webber can't enemy spam, atleast not as effectively. 

And more that I'm probably forgetting.

[edulopes]

2 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Planar damage as a whole heavily punishes any "unique" way of doing damage. Even ignoring how it ignores damage modifiers. 

 

>Beefalo are useless

>Wanda can't use her alarming clock

>Walter can't use his slingshot

>Wurt and Webber can't enemy spam, atleast not as effectively. 

And more that I'm probably forgetting.

Dont forget that Maxwell cant figth well using the New Full set too

IS like pick yout Poison of using the Codex or not

 

[Psychic Chicken]

On 4/16/2023 at 10:24 PM, Theukon-dos said:

Planar damage as a whole heavily punishes any "unique" way of doing damage. Even ignoring how it ignores damage modifiers. 

 

>Beefalo are useless

>Wanda can't use her alarming clock

>Walter can't use his slingshot

>Wurt and Webber can't enemy spam, atleast not as effectively. 

And more that I'm probably forgetting.

How about a new late-game craft that lowers nearby enemy planar defense to allow all types of attacks to be more effective?

[Gashzer]

On 4/15/2023 at 9:27 PM, Mysterious box said:

Agreed here it'd be nice to be able to use slingshot without feeling like we're handicapping ourselves. It's still weird to me how much effort goes into mass producing ammo and juggling the extremely small ammo stack size only for it to end up as just a tool with niche applications.

Dunno the niche applications you use the slingshot for can be massively convenient... eg. Fought the nightmare werepig for the first time as Walter last night and i can say his slingshot makes the fight very easy compared to other characters. You can aggro the werepig to charge swipe anytime he lurks. Speeds the fight up massively when combined with Walters immunity to insanity auras.

Walter is by far the best character for killing nightmare werepig.

Others characters need to tech up to atleast icestaffs for the same results and this takes time out of your ruins rush. Last night i killed dragonfly then ancient guardian then nightmare werepig and finally shadow chesspieces by day 22.

Walter is absolutely op. Gonna kill klaus and maybe even ancient fuelweaver before winter ends on this new world. Dont even think its physically possible to do all these bosses as fast as walter with any other character except maybbeeeee wigfrid or wx.

[edulopes]

14 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Walter is absolutely op.

well i dont see that,

My opnion but he is now the worst caracter of the game (excluding wes), maybie tied to woodie and willow, 
but that nigthmare werepig thing is cool i didnt know that.

i really think that he needs some love, and in my eyes this "late game ammo" will only make he better in other ways that you described, maybie bouncing like the staff,maybie dealing planar damage, maybie both ( but the idea of bouncing is crazy good/fun, because it makes him better to dealing with hordes like an ranged unity)

but i am sure that walter isnt OP

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Dunno the niche applications you use the slingshot for can be massively convenient... eg. Fought the nightmare werepig for the first time as Walter last night and i can say his slingshot makes the fight very easy compared to other characters. You can aggro the werepig to charge swipe anytime he lurks. Speeds the fight up massively when combined with Walters immunity to insanity auras.

Walter is by far the best character for killing nightmare werepig.

Others characters need to tech up to atleast icestaffs for the same results and this takes time out of your ruins rush. Last night i killed dragonfly then ancient guardian then nightmare werepig and finally shadow chesspieces by day 22.

Walter is absolutely op. Gonna kill klaus and maybe even ancient fuelweaver before winter ends on this new world. Dont even think its physically possible to do all these bosses as fast as walter with any other character except maybbeeeee wigfrid or wx.

I mean I get what you're saying with him but that's like saying the weremoose is op since you can defeat him with idols I feel like that's less Walter Shining and more a Showmanship of well-designed boss fights.

As for the rest was cheese methods involved? Because if they were I don't think that's a good representation of it's usefulness just design oversights.

 

1 hour ago, edulopes said:

well i dont see that,

My opnion but he is now the worst caracter of the game (excluding wes), maybie tied to woodie and willow, 
but that nigthmare werepig thing is cool i didnt know that.

i really think that he needs some love, and in my eyes this "late game ammo" will only make he better in other ways that you described, maybie bouncing like the staff,maybie dealing planar damage, maybie both ( but the idea of bouncing is crazy good/fun, because it makes him better to dealing with hordes like an ranged unity)

but i am sure that walter isnt OP

I wouldn't say he's the worst the rest of his kit is pretty decent aside fromtye slingshot.

[Gashzer]

2 hours ago, edulopes said:

well i dont see that,

My opnion but he is now the worst caracter of the game (excluding wes), maybie tied to woodie and willow, 
but that nigthmare werepig thing is cool i didnt know that.

i really think that he needs some love, and in my eyes this "late game ammo" will only make he better in other ways that you described, maybie bouncing like the staff,maybie dealing planar damage, maybie both ( but the idea of bouncing is crazy good/fun, because it makes him better to dealing with hordes like an ranged unity)

but i am sure that walter isnt OP

Worst character in the game??? No way! Walter is one of the best of not the best character for veteran players.

The holy trinity of stats is:  inventory space, speed and damage output.

Walter has two out of the three holy trinity stats, inventory space and speed both provided by woby.

The thing is, you only spend 10% of your time in DST fighting stuff, the rest of the time you are moving and collecting things. So damage output is actually the least useful of the holy trinity posing as the best stat.

People complain about Walters downside being one of the worst but its one of the few downsides completely negated by player skill and it only realllllly effects Walter during some boss fights.

Walter does not have any damage penality so the fact that the slingshot has low dps isnt much of a concern, just fight bosses like normal and use the slingshot as a support tool to melee combat.

Examples; hold 60 freeze rounds to freeze bishops in ruins while you kill rooks or crab king, gold rounds to finish off melee-weaked mushgnomes, draw aggro of bosses like nightmare werepig, use slingshot with bunnymen followers until they die to save your armour and hp/sanity then engage boss with melee after.

Now as a Walter main and seemingly one of the few people who can see Walter for the true S-tier character that he is. I would love a new slingshot round. But Walter 1000000% doesnt need any slingshot or any buffs at all. However it would be fun if he gets a new slingshot or ive mentioned before, a giant slingshot requiring walter to be mounted on woby to fire with its own special AoE rounds.

[Mysterious box]

37 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Examples; hold 60 freeze rounds to freeze bishops in ruins while you kill rooks or crab king, gold rounds to finish off melee-weaked mushgnomes, draw aggro of bosses like nightmare werepig, use slingshot with bunnymen followers until they die to save your armour and hp/sanity then engage boss with melee after.

I generally find it just all around safer to use a normal ice staff especially if your goal is to avoid mistakes it's stack size is better but it's performance is worse but this isn't to say I don't use freeze rounds when I do play Walter or anything. And while using it to draw aggro seems great you can do the same with a ice staff or boomerang making it niche at best. The using followers as meat shields to attack also sounds nice on paper but your often just better off fighting alongside followers even if you risk taking damage since odds are they'll pull all the aggro anyway.

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I generally find it just all around safer to use a normal ice staff especially if your goal is to avoid mistakes it's stack size is better but it's performance is worse but this isn't to say I don't use freeze rounds when I do play Walter or anything. And while using it to draw aggro seems great you can do the same with a ice staff or boomerang making it niche at best. The using followers as meat shields to attack also sounds nice on paper but your often just better off fighting alongside followers even if you risk taking damage since odds are they'll pull all the aggro anyway.

I think the freeze rounds are more reliable to use (i like the slower rate of fire for freezing things) but yeah they arnt as efficient as ice staffs.

True you can achieve the same with boomerrang and icestaff but i never carry them around as unless im playing a character that needs magic tech like maxwell or wanda, i wont prototype magic for a long time.

There is something about needing charcoal/silk/board (such a weird combo of items) for boomerrang that annoys me anytime i go to make one. Requiring you to burn a single tree then kill a couple spiders then chop another tree.. too many different involved actions for 1 of each resource. Gah thinking about it is annoying me haha

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean I get what you're saying with him but that's like saying the weremoose is op since you can defeat him with idols I feel like that's less Walter Shining and more a Showmanship of well-designed boss fights.

As for the rest was cheese methods involved? Because if they were I don't think that's a good representation of it's usefulness just design oversights.

I like weremoose tho, its sooo cheap for what it does and more importantly woodies transformations are fun and goofy to use, not op but very fun!

I killed dfly with log suits and pinecone hat with some trail mix and cooked cactus(used wall cheese tbh). Dfly is probably the hardest boss fight just because you have no good equipment during the first few days. Ancient guardian with crown/hambat/mag. Nightware werepig with slingshot/thulecite club/mag. And shadow chesspieces with cobblestone/lazy explorer/mag/hambat. 

Gonna use rock lobsters to kill ancient fuelweaver cause rock pellets be secretly op

 

[Guille6785]

10 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Walter is absolutely op. Gonna kill klaus and maybe even ancient fuelweaver before winter ends on this new world. Dont even think its physically possible to do all these bosses as fast as walter with any other character except maybbeeeee wigfrid or wx.

I can kill every raid boss except cc before winter ends as wes

[Dextops]

4 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I can kill every raid boss except cc before winter ends as wes

Stop being such a mega snob, you efficiency nut. This is utterly irrelevant you crazy speed runner 

[Gashzer]

8 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I can kill every raid boss except cc before winter ends as wes

Just imagine what you could do with Walter tho.... you would ascend to speedrunner godhood!

[flamboyant wolf]

5 hours ago, edulopes said:

well i dont see that,

My opnion but he is now the worst caracter of the game (excluding wes), maybie tied to woodie and willow, 
but that nigthmare werepig thing is cool i didnt know that.

i really think that he needs some love, and in my eyes this "late game ammo" will only make he better in other ways that you described, maybie bouncing like the staff,maybie dealing planar damage, maybie both ( but the idea of bouncing is crazy good/fun, because it makes him better to dealing with hordes like an ranged unity)

but i am sure that walter isnt OP

he'a certainly not op, but he's not the worst either, just needs some tweaking here and there.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

There is something about needing charcoal/silk/board (such a weird combo of items) for boomerrang that annoys me anytime i go to make one. Requiring you to burn a single tree then kill a couple spiders then chop another tree.. too many different involved actions for 1 of each resource. Gah thinking about it is annoying me haha

Ironically this is my issue with thulecite rounds and to a lesser extent marble rounds.(yes I know bearger is a thing but still) Investing time and resources into the slingshot just feels like a waste in it's current state in most scenarios but I do it not because it's very useful but because it's fun and really the weremoose and slingshot share that same spot for me fun with mostly lackluster performance.

[HowlVoid]

What about just straight upgrading his slingshot?

What if he could craft one similar to the new staff, using the new mob materials, and hits could ricochet. 

As a start, that upgrades his kit across the board. Especially those with special effects.

Alternatively, a new slingshot that adds additional planar dmg to the pellets based on (%) their base dmg. Or however much Klei decides; could be flat amount (+2,+5,+8 etc). No need to mess with the current system which I think is good with the material to dmg incentive that currently exists. 

It gives Walter some late game structure by recycling the old structure.

[firoborn]

not that walter related but need to say this, i dont love the anti beefalo route the new contet is taking both the boss that was added during the wilson rework and all of this new content dont add anything that help beefalo tamers and in the case off the planar stuff straight up make beefalos unviable, glad i play on pc at least i can remove planar stuff with mods

[edulopes]

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

What about just straight upgrading his slingshot?

What if he could craft one similar to the new staff, using the new mob materials, and hits could ricochet. 

As a start, that upgrades his kit across the board. Especially those with special effects.

Alternatively, a new slingshot that adds additional planar dmg to the pellets based on (%) their base dmg. Or however much Klei decides; could be flat amount (+2,+5,+8 etc). No need to mess with the current system which I think is good with the material to dmg incentive that currently exists. 

It gives Walter some late game structure by recycling the old structure.

 another good idea in my eyes

[Theukon-dos]

8 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Worst character in the game??? No way! Walter is one of the best of not the best character for veteran players.

Says the bloke who also claimed Willow is one of the best characters.

8 hours ago, Gashzer said:

The holy trinity of stats is:  inventory space, speed and damage output.

Walter has two out of the three holy trinity stats, inventory space and speed both provided by woby.

Inventory space is pretty good, I'll admit. Though Woby is very outclassed the moment you get a walking cane or a beefalo.

8 hours ago, Gashzer said:

The thing is, you only spend 10% of your time in DST fighting stuff, the rest of the time you are moving and collecting things. So damage output is actually the least useful of the holy trinity posing as the best stat.

If that was the case, then how come Wolfgang and Wanda are so valued for that high DPS? Fighting is absolutely something you do more than 10% of the time. And even if it was, that 10% is often the most valuable time you have due to being the most dangerous and costing the most resources. 

8 hours ago, Gashzer said:

People complain about Walters downside being one of the worst but its one of the few downsides completely negated by player skill and it only realllllly effects Walter during some boss fights.

Actually, Walter's downside is really manageable! 

8 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Walter does not have any damage penality so the fact that the slingshot has low dps isnt much of a concern, just fight bosses like normal and use the slingshot as a support tool to melee combat.

I don't think the Problem with Walter's slingshot has ever been the DPS in all honesty. The problem is that it's expensive as hell to use. For reference, Walter's best round are the Marbles. But at 51 damage per shot and 10 shots/craft, you need a whopping 10 marble chunks too match the total damage of a single spear. That is a lot of materials needed for a below-average DPS that only keeps you slightly safer compared to just learning the kiting patterns. 

8 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Examples; hold 60 freeze rounds to freeze bishops in ruins while you kill rooks or crab king, gold rounds to finish off melee-weaked mushgnomes, draw aggro of bosses like nightmare werepig, use slingshot with bunnymen followers until they die to save your armour and hp/sanity then engage boss with melee after.

Eh? None of those sound particularly useful or broad in scope. You're not wrong in saying that Walter could use these things, but all of them are done just as well by other tools in the game or are extremely niche. 

8 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Now as a Walter main and seemingly one of the few people who can see Walter for the true S-tier character that he is.

No he's not. You're just biased and refuse to learn the game beyond your current scope. 

8 hours ago, Gashzer said:

I would love a new slingshot round. But Walter 1000000% doesnt need any slingshot or any buffs at all. However it would be fun if he gets a new slingshot or ive mentioned before, a giant slingshot requiring walter to be mounted on woby to fire with its own special AoE rounds.

The giant slingshot sounds fun as hell I'll admit. But no, I'd say Walter pretty heavily needs a buff. None of his perks are fleshed out enough to carry him as a character, 'nor do they play together well enough to do so either. It's why @Scrimbles made Walter commit Mitosis so that his explorer perks and slingshot perks both had the room they needed to expand out and breath. 

[Guille6785]

27 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

If that was the case, then how come Wolfgang and Wanda are so valued for that high DPS?

because the majority of the community cannot seamlessly kill raid bosses with any character