Why aren't there any characters that want to be on the ocean?

[Theukon-dos]

39 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Here I made you guys a TL:DR of WHY DSTs Ocean Content SUCKS regardless of how much Klei has added to it over the past 4 Years.

Current way content is Generated.

How It would be Generated if it was designed in Shipwrecked Style.

I feel like Shipwrecked-Style Generation is a bit too far in the other direction. Though being able to cut through center of the map on a ship would go a long way in making the ocean easier to traverse. Perhaps they could add a land bridge system, so boats could cross under where players could walk. Or they could bring back Shipwrecked's fog wall; so going too one edge of the map spits you back out on the other edge.

[abrocator]

I agree that the Ocean is very optional.

Except if I’m playing Wurt. Maybe I’m too much of a crockpot user, but I couldn’t imagine playing late-game wurt without Figatoni. (I like to do crop farming but only occassionally.)

[Starlogy]

On 4/10/2023 at 11:55 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Because Klei won’t Add Walani that’s Why.. 

Walani is not going to fix the ocean dude.

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, Starlogy said:

Walani is not going to fix the ocean dude.

The thread isn’t asking how to fix the ocean, the thread is asking why there isn’t an Ocean Based character, My answer was because Walani isn’t in the game (she’s a character designed entirely around the ocean..) 

My OTHER two posts are an Off-Topic Mini-Rant about why DSTs Ocean sucks.

Im sorry if this caused you or anyone else confusion, because I’m not saying adding Walani will instantly make the ocean better, Hell No.. it would still suck, the two off-topic posts about WHY it sucks would fix the ocean.. but Won’t be fixed by just adding Walani.

[Lupinangel]

I agree we need 1 ocean theme character. Woodlegs would solve everything and be such a fun together character if you took down his insanity Aura on land and gave him a maxwell sanity aura on the water. Totally agree and he could start with a boat cannons and sail which would make him my fav of all time.

9 hours ago, Starlogy said:

Walani is not going to fix the ocean dude.

Disagree Walani Lunar rush could be amazing and we would have our first Swashbuckler. With a small refresh it could make ocean play much more fun have a wes buff to reduce weapon usage maybe up damage and leave her as is hopefully she keeps her surf board but I wouldn't mind her having a small boat either

[bloopah]

8 hours ago, Lupinangel said:

Walani Lunar rush

grass rafts exist and they don't need a singular character with mediocre health to be crafted

[maxwell_winters]

9 hours ago, Lupinangel said:

Disagree Walani Lunar rush could be amazing

Woodie can already do that. And grass boats exist. The main perk of Walani is outclassed by a scienceless craft made with grass and twigs. Truly, a character with great potential in DST.

[Lupinangel]

 

39 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Woodie can already do that. And grass boats exist. The main perk of Walani is outclassed by a scienceless craft made with grass and twigs. Truly, a character with great potential in DST.

Woodie can do that but potentially not as fast and a character that could use glass cutters more effectively leads to cool speed running opportunities. Plus Walani takes half the sanity drain leaving more wiggle room for opportunitistic boss rushes. Plus Woodie needs monster meat and must craft idols. 2 idles plus sanity and food regeneration after transformations could make walani a better option as well as she could have a combat focus style for boat combat. Walani could even have scouting ability for the main boat with her surfboard able to get ocean goods better than all the party. Imagine if she could fish and trawl on her surfboard.... I love woody yes but the goose does not an aquatic character make nd I'd like to think this forum is about a good character for a Ocean content character

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

Woodie can already do that. And grass boats exist. The main perk of Walani is outclassed by a scienceless craft made with grass and twigs. Truly, a character with great potential in DST.

Ugh.. for the last and FINAL Time here’s What Walani’s Perk would actually DO In DST.. I would know, because I play as her in HAMLET outside of her intended DLC.

Walani’s Surfboard is a Infinite Durability, Placeable, Boat Kit, That AFTER Being used to sail across the small ponds in Hamlet, Can pick up her Surfboard Again for Redeployment Later.

AKA: Significantly less Waste of Grass, Logs & Twigs.

And as Someone who has Spent a lot of time playing Both DS (+ It’s DLCs) and DST- I can say for an absolute FACT that Boating in DST feels like a step backwards from boating in Shipwrecked.

If we could’ve somehow kept the boats that look like boats… but moved to the newer way they steer and operate, rather than having these flat moving platforms with little room on board to dodge enemy mob attacks, that spring leaks at the slightest little bump, MAYBE Boats in DST would’ve been more Fun.

But as it stands right NOW Boats in DST can be summed up in two ways- 1 is a massive waste of Grass & Twigs, the other.. is a massive Time Sink of gathering a bunch of logs, grass, Stone, Silk, etc etc only to lose all those resources when your boat Mets its watery demise.

And for me personally, having a character with a Infinite Durability, Redeployable Boat Kit would be a Massive Enjoyment, it would Allow me to explore the ocean and find out where things spawn in my world WITHOUT needing to become a Goose as Woodie and worry about gathering Monster Meat and then entering Full on Starvation Status upon exiting Wereform- Not to mention there’s also the chance you could “Goose” out to explore the Ocean and end up in a situation where your too far out at Sea to make it back to any sort of landfall before your Ben 10 Omnitrix decides it’s time to revert you back to Woodie right over an Open Sea.

Comparing Walani, to Woodie is Laughable. Comparing the Waste of Twigs/Grass from Grass Rafts to Walani’s Superior Surfboard is insanity..

Disclaimer: Again Adding Walani to DST will not INSTANTLY fix the Ocean, that’s more of a problem with the way Klei designed the ocean in DST & has nothing at all to do with Walani, Walani would simply allow a player to Explore what’s out on the Ocean without wasting Grass, Silk, Twigs, Logs, Boat Patches, Rocks, or having to deal with Woodies Downsides.

Now should Klei opt to add an infinite Durability raft that can be picked up and redeployed then there would be no use in adding Walani.. but until that role gets filled- I’d prefer having the Chill Surfer Gal just for the cute Skins I could apply to her.

[maxwell_winters]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Comparing the Waste of Twigs/Grass from Grass Rafts to Walani’s Superior Surfboard is insanity..

We have characters with speed bonuses, damage modifiers, powerful followers, teleportation, gathering perks and boss farm powers. How can that compete with "using fewer twigs and grass"? They're literally 2 most abundant resources in the game. Why should I care about preserving them?

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

We have characters with speed bonuses, damage modifiers, powerful followers, teleportation, gathering perks and boss farm powers. How can that compete with "using fewer twigs and grass"? They're literally 2 most abundant resources in the game. Why should I care about preserving them?

I don’t know about You or how you play the game- But… from my experience playing with friends, Grass & Twigs are a resource that every player needs, (some more than others..) Let’s use the newest rework Wilson as an Example: if someone specs out his Torch Skill Tree he will need Grass and Twigs often to make use of that perk. Sure I could Waste grass on a temporary boat to leap across a small gap of water, but I’d like to think that grass would be put to better use in creating ropes for things like Spears, Football Helms, straw hats, Telltale Hearts (for reviving your friends that die a lot) & lanterns or Any other craftable requiring Grass.

The sheer amount of Wood, Twigs, Grass, Silk, Ropes, Rocks, Cutstone, Etc.. that Walani would save me is enough to Warrant her inclusion into the game for me.

Not to mention I also tend to play on servers with world Gen settings altered, so I MAY need to use that grass for things like Endothermic Firepits when my summers are infinite.

Im also pretty sure there’s several characters who’s craftables require it- Wurts Royal Tapestry comes to mind.

In this situation: Walani would save resources, while covering gathering things out at sea.

Ops Question is why isn’t there an Ocean Based character in DST, and this should reasonably show why Walani would be a good contender for that role.

[abrocator]

11 hours ago, Lupinangel said:

I agree we need 1 ocean theme character. Woodlegs would solve everything and be such a fun together character if you took down his insanity Aura on land and gave him a maxwell sanity aura on the water. Totally agree and he could start with a boat cannons and sail which would make him my fav of all time.

No sanity drain on land? Or just less?

His new downside could be that he gets scurvy if he goes two days without eating a fruit.

[Lupinangel]

27 minutes ago, abrocator said:

No sanity drain on land? Or just less?

His new downside could be that he gets scurvy if he goes two days without eating a fruit.

I love that idea. I was thinking less sanity drain but that would be very cool a character where eating fruit would actually matter.

[Theukon-dos]

13 hours ago, Lupinangel said:

I agree we need 1 ocean theme character. Woodlegs would solve everything and be such a fun together character if you took down his insanity Aura on land and gave him a maxwell sanity aura on the water. Totally agree and he could start with a boat cannons and sail which would make him my fav of all time.

Woodlegs I agree would be a great fit for DST to fill the niche of "Ocean Character". Unfortunately, adding him would probably make people demand another Hamlet character to balance things out. 

 

Though honestly? I'd double down on Woodleg's downside instead of lightening it. Make him loose more sanity on land. Because remember, Ocean bases are just a thing that DST allows you to make, especially compared to Shipwrecked.

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t know about You or how you play the game- But… from my experience playing with friends, Grass & Twigs are a resource that every player needs, (some more than others..) Let’s use the newest rework Wilson as an Example: if someone specs out his Torch Skill Tree he will need Grass and Twigs often to make use of that perk. Sure I could Waste grass on a temporary boat to leap across a small gap of water, but I’d like to think that grass would be put to better use in creating ropes for things like Spears, Football Helms, straw hats, Telltale Hearts (for reviving your friends that die a lot) & lanterns or Any other craftable requiring Grass.

Just relocate grass and twig producers to base I notice a large amount of players tend to either not do this or only use about 10 to 20 when they have 8 or more players at base when you bring a reasonable amount to base there's always more than people can handle

 

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The sheer amount of Wood, Twigs, Grass, Silk, Ropes, Rocks, Cutstone, Etc.. that Walani would save me is enough to Warrant her inclusion into the game for me

Woodie would still be the better choice even if she could start surfing day one as there are plenty of ways to recover stats lost by transforming and if you were farming spiders you're already getting resources to do so.

[Lupinangel]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Just relocate grass and twig producers to base I notice a large amount of players tend to either not do this or only use about 10 to 20 when they have 8 or more players at base when you bring a reasonable amount to base there's always more than people can handle

 

Woodie would still be the better choice even if she could start surfing day one as there are plenty of ways to recover stats lost by transforming and if you were farming spiders you're already getting resources to do so.

I dont think you understand were talking about ocean characters and ocean resource characters. Of course every character can get the materials for a boat,  every character can get grass and resources especially woody but that doesnt make woody a good ocean character you could waste a whole idol and have to roll back just from missing the island. Besides your inferring you have multiple characters I'm talking about how walani could literally live on the water solo maybe even start without needing to make a think-tank like wickerbottoms science knowledge.

Saying woody is better in an ocean character page is kind of redundant no?Were talking about making good ocean characters. I have a day 400 woody run but I never really cared to rush lunar with the goose its fine but it really doesn't benefit him much id rather go moose and clear ruins or beehives

[Mysterious box]

30 minutes ago, Lupinangel said:

Besides your inferring you have multiple characters I

What i was quoting was inferring there were multiple characters involved.

 

30 minutes ago, Lupinangel said:

I'm talking about how walani could literally live on the water solo maybe even start without needing to make a think-tank like wickerbottoms science knowledge.

Grass rafts don't need science either or are you saying you'll just sit on her surf board not doing anything instead of building a boat that's still better suited to long term boat travel?

 

30 minutes ago, Lupinangel said:

I dont think you understand were talking about ocean characters and ocean resource characters.

I'm not saying ocean characters are a bad idea I'm saying Walani is a bad ocean characrer.

30 minutes ago, Lupinangel said:

I'm talking about how walani could literally live on the water solo maybe even start without needing to make a think-tank like wickerbottoms science knowledge.

Explain the benefit of staying on a surf board than a boat long term aside from squeeze through tight spaces.

Woodlegs would simply be the better pick.

[Dextops]

I am a certified walani hater

[Mike23Ua]

39 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Explain the benefit of staying on a surf board than a boat long term aside from squeeze through tight spaces.

This severely limits it down, that’s like saying explain what the purpose of Webber is Without Spiders.

Do you see the Logic behind that? Walani’s Surfboard isn’t meant to be used Long-Term, it’s for things like sailing across Hamlets ponds, picking up, sailing across a different pond, without leaving behind Wooden Rafts, Grass Debris, or building docks over water tiles.

You could Use the surfboard to sort of Wortox “Soul Hop” across river streams, or you can use it to navigate areas like a Seastack infested body of water, and unless Woodlegs gets an Indestructible, Redeployable Boat, He won’t just replace Walani’s Role.

Walani would fill the role of fast Instant Access to Ocean Content, Woodlegs on the other hand would be better suited for something like Haggling with Pirates, or better Boat Canons for at sea Naval Combat (assuming there WAS Any in DST..)

Both Woodlegs & Walani would fill the role of an Ocean Based Character, But they would fill those roles in Different ways.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This severely limits it down, that’s like saying explain what the purpose of Webber is Without Spiders.

Do you see the Logic behind that? Walani’s Surfboard isn’t meant to be used Long-Term, it’s for things like sailing across Hamlets ponds, picking up, sailing across a different pond, without leaving behind Wooden Rafts, Grass Debris, or building docks over water tiles.

You could Use the surfboard to sort of Wortox “Soul Hop” across river streams, or you can use it to navigate areas like a Seastack infested body of water, and unless Woodlegs gets an Indestructible, Redeployable Boat, He won’t just replace Walani’s Role.

Walani would fill the role of fast Instant Access to Ocean Content, Woodlegs on the other hand would be better suited for something like Haggling with Pirates, or better Boat Canons for at sea Naval Combat (assuming there WAS Any in DST..)

Both Woodlegs & Walani would fill the role of an Ocean Based Character, But they would fill those roles in Different ways.

Problem is we already filled this role with the grass raft.

 

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This severely limits it down, that’s like saying explain what the purpose of Webber is Without Spiders.

No it really isn't there isn't something super cheap that completely replaces his ability to command and benefit from spider's varied abilities and no spider hat isn't good enough of a replacement on various levels before it's brought up. 

[maxwell_winters]

34 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Walani’s Surfboard isn’t meant to be used Long-Term, it’s for things like sailing across Hamlets ponds, picking up, sailing across a different pond, without leaving behind Wooden Rafts, Grass Debris, or building docks over water tiles.

That would be only useful in the early game and in very niche scenarios. And that's her entire shtick. This forum often critisize characters like Woodie and Willow for lack of progression. Walani would be the same problem tenfold. DST characters have gotten more versatile and whackier. A surfer girl doesn't fit the cast of DST.

There are characters who can do what Walani can but better and with a wider range of abilities. Why would anyone pick her if they can pick Woodie and have combat and gathering perks beside the sea exploration? Or Wortox who can soul teleport anywhere without being limited to water?

[Mike23Ua]

26 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Problem is we already filled this role with the grass raft.

Also no- I have no idea how this game plays on PC with point and click mouse controls.. but with an Xbox Controller you can only deploy a grass raft immediately in front of where you have positioned your character, the raft will turn red when something prevents it from being placed (such as a bird landing in the zone) or if the bridge of water is Too Narrow to place a Grass Raft Into.

In Addition, if your trying to clear a River of Debris UNLIKE PC where you can probably just point click, drag and drop.. You actually have to walk over to and pick up those items, which means deploying another Grass raft to pick up the grass that your previous raft left behind when it collapsed?? For this purpose Alone I could use Walani to go behind other players who have cluttered my rivers with their temporary grass rafts and clean the rivers of the left over debris.

Assuming that Klei doesn’t do something completely stupid like making the surfboard require the same amount of space as a Grass Raft to Deploy- you’d be able to get it into Narrower passage ways.

Walani would fill the role of fast instant access to the ocean on Day 1 without needing any additional resources, or without cluttering your rivers with grass from temporary rafts, she could be used for things like gathering kelp out of small streams too narrow to place a boat kit into. short term & Simple Stuff.

Woodlegs role on the other hand would be the reverse of that- where Walani is focused on Instant access, Woodlegs would be Long-Term Progress (Aka needing to build structures to go on his boat, like better canons and the likes) 

Sure Klei could pull a total prick move and rip Walani’s perk right out from under her by giving Woodlegs a tiny Wooden Canoe to paddle around in… but I doubt they’d do that when Both Characters could potentially exist in DST.

And until someone at Klei flat out says There will be no more new Characters or ports from previous DLCs, there’s no reason to Dismiss Walani OR Woodlegs rights to be in the game.

Going an entirely different route- and upon completing her entire quest line: Klei could allow you to Unlock Pearl as an ocean based character. And I have a Few ideas for that as well-

Shes a Crab so she should be able to Swim (Replacing Walani’s perk) she’s also the creator of those message Jars so she could use them as something like Firefly Lanterns (replacing Wilson’s Torch Toss) She’s also seen frequently fishing so she’d have some kind of unique perks for better fishing, and she sells the player Shell Bells which would probably be useful as sort of a Mating Call she can blow into to convince hiding ocean mobs to come to the surface (such as Wobster a to leave their dens)

Pearl would be the Perfect Ocean Character, and a great reward for reaching maximum friendship with her and completing all her quests.

But I wouldn’t want her to Replace Walani or Woodlegs.

[Mysterious box]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

In Addition, if your trying to clear a River of Debris UNLIKE PC where you can probably just point click, drag and drop.. You actually have to walk over to and pick up those items, which means deploying another Grass raft to pick up the grass that your previous raft left behind when it collapsed?? For this purpose Alone I could use Walani to go behind other players who have cluttered my rivers with their temporary grass rafts and clean the rivers of the left over debris.

Lazy forager, Poly roger, or a fire staff could clean this up.

 

20 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Walani would fill the role of fast instant access to the ocean on Day 1 without needing any additional resources, or without cluttering your rivers with grass from temporary rafts, she could be used for things like gathering kelp out of small streams too narrow to place a boat kit into. short term & Simple Stuff.

Again grass raft is there day 1 requiring basic resources you need to survive night 1. As for the narrow passage thing my issue is that it's so incredibly niche that it won't make any meaningful impact on gameplay.

[Notecja]

Personally I believe there is little perks and no rush with sea is to leave it more like optional content for sea enjoyers. Yet I am not opposite to make it interesting (why sunken chests are so much pain... swim 1/2 map, likely to deal badly with monke, just to get 6th fishing rod)

[Lupinangel]

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Lazy forager, Poly roger, or a fire staff could clean this up.

 

Again grass raft is there day 1 requiring basic resources you need to survive night 1. As for the narrow passage thing my issue is that it's so incredibly niche that it won't make any meaningful impact on gameplay.

Just saying grass raft is craftable is so unproductive. Instead of saying why you should pick any other character, that walani would be worthless, and lazy foragers solve all problems maybe be imaginative. 1:Walanai's surfboard could be faster than a boat. 2: she can control it better with faster turns. 3: she already gets half sanity drain from wetness on the face of it 4: give her buff to melee since she was a pirate 5: DIFFERENT SURFBOARDS 6:Craft cutlass 7: You can surf between watery areas like wortox could teleport cutting time in edging without wasting boats. 8: instead of surfboard taking damage you take damage 9: When she surfs monkeys dont spawn leading to monkey queen and wilbur speed runs ...I mean I could go on but I think I've made my point. 

 

Your arguments the same as why people didn't want Wormwood they didn't have the foresight to see i giant garden update.

Dude everyone that has played the game knows what a raft is besides your really gonna make a raft and no anchor? Your not gonna make a sail? Not gonna make and oar? What about light torches or fire?Not gonna make a repair kit just in case? Every resource adds up and cutting corners can be huge in macro game play.

Saying Woody can walk on water doesn't change he can't do anything else on it except what every other character can. Walani could easily be a safer option with more craftables for DST