Wilson rework is a waste of potential.

[cropo]

I like his rework myself. Most people only wanted very minor tweaks to Wilson for his rework. I literally would have been happy if they buffed his base health to 175 and just left it there.

 

The torch tree is more useful than people give it credit for in my opinion, being able to store 3 extra food slots in the beginning is actually very useful until you get bundling wrap and even then there is always a time where storing food in the beard is marginally useful throughout the entire game. Even if it's not groundbreaking, it definitely helps. The alchemy tree is extremely useful for converting your abundant resources into the equivalents that you might need at the moment.

 

Being able to shave your beard in stages seems to give sanity for each trim so it's also useful for new players who can't handle their sanity well.  

 

I can only speak for what I see, but do keep in mind that everyone was scared of Wilson being updated, and desperately hoped he ''wouldn't be changed much'', and I don't think he was changed too drastically. He got nothing but benefits, with no downside other than actually being required to play the game(if you can call that a downside, I don't). His rework is fine, minor buffs all across the board, no nerfs.

[CrisBlu]

8 hours ago, Milordo said:

1) If I remember correctly apart from numbers, the goose being able to "swim" in the ocean, the moose having armor and others nifty things. Also the numbers changes to Woodie were substantial, while Wilson they were very little.

The Moose already had armor iirc, they just increased it; Wilson received basically the same vein of changes with changes to his alchemy recipes, his beard being shaved in layers, and the changes to torch durability. The beard being shavable in layers I would liken to being as good as the goose running on water.

[Milordo]

4 hours ago, CrisBlu said:

The Moose already had armor iirc, they just increased it; Wilson received basically the same vein of changes with changes to his alchemy recipes, his beard being shaved in layers, and the changes to torch durability. The beard being shavable in layers I would liken to being as good as the goose running on water.

I mean, it's a long stretch to compare having a decorative rug and a small little quality of life to a profound change in gameplay and real powerful ability.  

[Mysterious box]

13 hours ago, Milordo said:

1) If I remember correctly apart from numbers, the goose being able to "swim" in the ocean, the moose having armor and others nifty things. Also the numbers changes to Woodie were substantial, while Wilson they were very little.

I mean for Wilson's side there was beard trimming, and additional additional alchemy recipes added I consider that fairly substantial since they'll be revelant far longer than Woodie's were forms.

 

13 hours ago, Milordo said:

) That once you allocate all the points to Wilson you need to reset a run or swap character to re-assign his points.

If you could reset at the drop of a hat what would even be the point of the skill tree?

[Milordo]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean for Wilson's side there was beard trimming, and additional additional alchemy recipes added I consider that fairly substantial since they'll be revelant far longer than Woodie's were forms.

I'm pretty sure Wilson didn't received any additional alchemy recipes 

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

If you could reset at the drop of a hat what would even be the point of the skill tree?

Obviously that's not the point and you know it. I don't need to explain it, already many others have discussed it

[CrisBlu]

5 hours ago, Milordo said:

I mean, it's a long stretch to compare having a decorative rug and a small little quality of life to a profound change in gameplay and real powerful ability.  

No you don’t understand, the beard trimming in stages is a direct buff to Wilson’s beard hair output, which also gives him easier access to meat effigies as well as letting him keep his insulation for winter. Like this output goes over a hair a day once you fully grow it, you can easily make meat effigies for an entire group.

[Milordo]

21 minutes ago, CrisBlu said:

No you don’t understand, the beard trimming in stages is a direct buff to Wilson’s beard hair output, which also gives him easier access to meat effigies.

I mean...sure,meat effigies. They're not useless, but it's not that big of a deal. It's nowhere comparable in the slightest to being able to swim freely in the ocean. Also you forgot that it's not beard trimming who gives him easier access to meat effigies now, but the alchemy tree with beefalo wool, making your point even smaller. I know because I played and tested a lot, as said in my post. The trimming it's a little nice bonus, but that's it.

Wilson received very little changes.

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, Milordo said:

Obviously that's not the point and you know it. I don't need to explain it, already many others have discussed it

Actually I don't which is why I'm asking not liking the idea to commiting doesn't automatically make a mechanic unfriendly.

 

5 hours ago, Milordo said:

I'm pretty sure Wilson didn't received any additional alchemy recipes 

He did actually within the existing skills he got extra reversed versions of some of his existing crafts based on player feedback.

[CrisBlu]

2 hours ago, Milordo said:

I mean...sure,meat effigies. They're not useless, but it's not that big of a deal. It's nowhere comparable in the slightest to being able to swim freely in the ocean. Also you forgot that it's not beard trimming who gives him easier access to meat effigies now, but the alchemy tree with beefalo wool, making your point even smaller. I know because I played and tested a lot, as said in my post. The trimming it's a little nice bonus, but that's it.

Wilson received very little changes.

I mean beefalo wool also does that with icky, but so does the beard trimming and at a much faster base rate without point investment. Goose swimming really isn’t anything more impactful than meat effigies and being able to both build a meat effigies and still have insulation for the first winter is nice, not game changing but nice!
 

The fact of the matter is once you’ve discovered where the Lunar island is, you really don’t need Goose form’s ability to swim; that’s why I say it’s about on par with meat effigies. Besides I’m actually really excited for the ability to more easily make revival items for my friends who aren’t as acquainted with the game as I am, it’ll allow them to experience more of the game and play riskier.

[Milordo]

22 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Actually I don't which is why I'm asking not liking the idea to commiting doesn't automatically make a mechanic unfriendly.

You can just search here posts about the skill tree and find out. A lot of people talk about it. 

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

He did actually within the existing skills he got extra reversed versions of some of his existing crafts based on player feedback.

Really? Which ones?

[Mysterious box]

52 minutes ago, Milordo said:

You can just search here posts about the skill tree and find out. A lot of people talk about it. 

Why not just say your personal thoughts on it so I don't just assume not really sure what the point of responding to this part just to say read others opinons elsewhere if you don't want to just quote whatever you feel represents your point on the matter.

54 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Really? Which ones?

If your asking me off the top of my head I don't remember because I haven't had a lot of time to test the beta lately but:

Game Update] - 546159

Release Date: 03/06/23

This is a hotfix release.

---

Update Information:

Changes

• Torch Longevity Skills improved.
• Added some Transmute reversal recipes to Wilson’s skillset.
• Improved controller support for Wilson’s skillset.
• Improved priority selection with Beard Inventory vs Crock Pot.
• Changed “Inspiration” into “Insight” so as not to be confused with Wigfrid’s “Inspiration”.
• Nightmare Werepig is now found in the Caves instead.
• Adjusted the costs of some of Wilson’s Alchemy Recipes
• Shadow Courtier skill has some additional combat changes.

[abrocator]

23 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Willow has had that Teddy Bear in her artwork since Solo DS, it’s not something they just randomly added in.

Okay. That has got nothing to do with gameplay though. And it’s not like the devs would base that on… wait, hold on…

• Wickerbottom shushes in her original portrait: she got a shush idle animation
• Wolfgang is lifting a dumbel in his original portrait: stupid dumbels were added to his crafts
• Wilson with a torch in his original portrait: Wilson gets a freaking torch skill tree

my God

[Datanon]

im just happy he got something, and not nothing at all like some people were asking. idk maybe i have low standards, but i do agree that his perks seem directionless

[bjanmanjs]

13 hours ago, abrocator said:

Wilson with a torch in his original portrait: Wilson gets a freaking torch skill tree

Wilson's portrait shows him force-feeding a vial of green liquid to a bird. I believe the reason he was given a torch skill tree is because he's often shown holding a torch in promotional artwork.

[SullyD]

Yes, I agree. Let him more easily make gunpowder and blow things up, chemical vials that poison enemies in an area or put them to sleep or explode or molotov, things like that, alchemist, chemist, scientist type.

[maxwell_winters]

10 minutes ago, SullyD said:

Let him more easily make gunpowder and blow things up

10 minutes ago, SullyD said:

or molotov

Excuse me 

[EthanTheMime]

1 hour ago, SullyD said:

Yes, I agree. Let him more easily make gunpowder and blow things up, chemical vials that poison enemies in an area or put them to sleep or explode or molotov, things like that, alchemist, chemist, scientist type.

Honestly really grateful we didn’t end up with something like this. Wilson is a wannabe scientist, and I think that giving him a little crafting tab to let him make funny potions would be a disservice to his character.

[SullyD]

1 hour ago, EthanTheMime said:

Honestly really grateful we didn’t end up with something like this. Wilson is a wannabe scientist, and I think that giving him a little crafting tab to let him make funny potions would be a disservice to his character.

Yeah yeah yeah, that was the kind of response I expected from this game community. 

[Wonz]

On 3/14/2023 at 8:00 PM, yourAnty said:

This is also why I don't get why so many people want skill trees for all characters,

They didn't think it through yet. In the end skill tree exists to make you left out on the other abilities because what's the point of it if it's gonna allow you to have all abilities the character has to offer. 

I don't like wilson's rework because of the skill tree.Not sure what pleasant is the skill tree for but I'm sure It causes me unpleasant feeling of being incomplete. 

Imagine playing wigfrid and you can choose only two from those things
1. Songs
2. Life steal.
3. Special crafts.

That's how wilson feels compared to rest.

[GenomeSquirrel]

3 hours ago, Wonz said:

They didn't think it through yet. In the end skill tree exists to make you left out on the other abilities because what's the point of it if it's gonna allow you to have all abilities the character has to offer. 

I don't like wilson's rework because of the skill tree.Not sure what pleasant is the skill tree for but I'm sure It causes me unpleasant feeling of being incomplete. 

Imagine playing wigfrid and you can choose only two from those things
1. Songs
2. Life steal.
3. Special crafts.

That's how wilson feels compared to rest.

From a new player perspective I like that there’s something outlining character perks in detail and within the game. Compare to Willow being able to cook berries which the game doesn’t tell you, makes no sense in real life, and you’re unlikely to randomly put the stack of berries on top of the lighter.

Not that I am a fan of what Wilson got, or like that he doesn’t have full access.

[Nweeky]

4 hours ago, Wonz said:

Not sure what pleasant is the skill tree for but I'm sure It causes me unpleasant feeling of being incomplete.

Im curious if you dislike WX-78's rework for the exact same reason. As far as I remember, that one was applauded by everyone despite forcing you to choose your skills.

[Milordo]

On 3/15/2023 at 10:51 PM, Mysterious box said:

Changes

• Torch Longevity Skills improved.
• Added some Transmute reversal recipes to Wilson’s skillset.
• Improved controller support for Wilson’s skillset.
• Improved priority selection with Beard Inventory vs Crock Pot.
• Changed “Inspiration” into “Insight” so as not to be confused with Wigfrid’s “Inspiration”.
• Nightmare Werepig is now found in the Caves instead.
• Adjusted the costs of some of Wilson’s Alchemy Recipes
• Shadow Courtier skill has some additional combat changes.

Ah yes, you fell into Klei trap. Their "Added some Transmute reversal recipes to Wilson’s skillset." is a fancy way to say "we changed some small numbers to Wilson". This update changed simply the cost to """"balance"""" them, for example 3 twigs --> 1 log, 1 log --> 2 twigs, when before was 3 twigs --> 1 log, 1 log --> 3 twigs. So again, Wilson rework received almost zero changes from the start. It was rushed and Klei made up their mind long ago, which almost beg me the question, why ask our feedback but oh well.

On 3/15/2023 at 10:51 PM, Mysterious box said:

Why not just say your personal thoughts on it so I don't just assume not really sure what the point of responding to this part just to say read others opinons elsewhere if you don't want to just quote whatever you feel represents your point on the matter.

Ok, ok. We don't want an easy way to obtain points to destroy the meaning of the skill tree (even though I would like it and it's already breaking itself). The aim of those discussions was to make it less tedious, less anti-user friendly, less boring and annoying to do every time you want to change build (even if changing build is laughable with the current bad system).

Imagine if collecting more circuits to Wx or more mourning glory to Wendy, it's required to reset or swap characters every time. It's not fun. A system, mechanic or item that would help you rellocate your points would be very appreciated.

On 3/15/2023 at 9:50 PM, CrisBlu said:

I mean beefalo wool also does that with icky, but so does the beard trimming and at a much faster base rate without point investment. Goose swimming really isn’t anything more impactful than meat effigies and being able to both build a meat effigies and still have insulation for the first winter is nice, not game changing but nice!
 

The fact of the matter is once you’ve discovered where the Lunar island is, you really don’t need Goose form’s ability to swim; that’s why I say it’s about on par with meat effigies. Besides I’m actually really excited for the ability to more easily make revival items for my friends who aren’t as acquainted with the game as I am, it’ll allow them to experience more of the game and play riskier.

I mean, I still use it on normal runs alone or with friends to help me explore all the map better and fill all the empty spaces (for completion sake), since the boat can get stuck or have problems in certain biomes, as you know. I don't know if your playstyle is the usual speedrun boss rush super meta but I play with all the calm in the world. When I'm Woodie or there is a Woodie in the team, that ability is a clutch. Everytime we need salt, Woodie come to do it. Everytime we need glass cutters or glass axes, Woodie come to do it. Everytime we need monkeytails, Woodie come to do it.

Yes meat effigies and insulation are not game changing but very welcomed, we agree on this. I can't see how Woodie ability to swim, bear in mind, the only perk/ability of the game that helps you on the sea, is in pair with them. You can't do with other items or characters what Woodie can do with that ability.

Question, considering if you die, you loose all the beard, how do you accumulate so much beard with just the beard and not beefalo wool? Also, if you want extra inventory now with the beard? You can't trimm it, or you'll lose space inventory. It's nice to have a small bonus with the beard to have more beard, but the insulation is nice to move around without cold being annoying and the space inventory is really nice. I don't see how beefalo wool is not faster when I usually have 5 stacks in the chests, more if you have a tamed beefalo.

44 minutes ago, Nweeky said:

Im curious if you dislike WX-78's rework for the exact same reason. As far as I remember, that one was applauded by everyone despite forcing you to choose your skills.

It's very very very very different the WX system to the Wilson one.

[Mysterious box]

14 hours ago, Milordo said:

Ah yes, you fell into Klei trap. Their "Added some Transmute reversal recipes to Wilson’s skillset." is a fancy way to say "we changed some small numbers to Wilson". This update changed simply the cost to """"balance"""" them, for example 3 twigs --> 1 log, 1 log --> 2 twigs, when before was 3 twigs --> 1 log, 1 log --> 3 twigs. So again, Wilson rework received almost zero changes from the start. It was rushed and Klei made up their mind long ago, which almost beg me the question, why ask our feedback but oh well.

Wrong actually I looked back and they added the ability to craft nitre, and hound teeth might be more but those are the ones I noticed before that you could only do the reverse.

 

14 hours ago, Milordo said:

Ok, ok. We don't want an easy way to obtain points to destroy the meaning of the skill tree (even though I would like it and it's already breaking itself). The aim of those discussions was to make it less tedious, less anti-user friendly, less boring and annoying to do every time you want to change build (even if changing build is laughable with the current bad system).

Imagine if collecting more circuits to Wx or more mourning glory to Wendy, it's required to reset or swap characters every time. It's not fun. A system, mechanic or item that would help you rellocate your points would be very appreciated.

I mean the only issue I see with this is at this point you may as well just let them have all skills since you don't need the craft ones at all times so if it's easily accessible you may as well keep all the passives till you need to craft. That aside I don't see why using the celestial portal to change your skill points is so taboo?

[Milordo]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Wrong actually I looked back and they added the ability to craft nitre, and hound teeth might be more but those are the ones I noticed before that you could only do the reverse.

Oh! My bad then. I thought nitre was craftable from the start?

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean the only issue I see with this is at this point you may as well just let them have all skills since you don't need the craft ones at all times so if it's easily accessible you may as well keep all the passives till you need to craft. That aside I don't see why using the celestial portal to change your skill points is so taboo?

Never said is a taboo anywhere.  

[Wonz]

17 hours ago, Nweeky said:

Im curious if you dislike WX-78's rework for the exact same reason. As far as I remember, that one was applauded by everyone despite forcing you to choose your skills.

I just don't like durability on circuits. He's type who has to earn his skills. And how Wilson peforms his transmutation? He just slaps two rocks together, says magic sell and they turn into another rock? There's no build up or requirement for those crafts, doesn't feel like this power comes from somewhere. Wx is researching other creatures to replicate their characteristics.

Wilson is like if WX started with desired circuits with no effort but also not being able to replace them unless through usage of upgraded postern. If you got 15 points on wilson then you will start on other server or save with 15 points.

It's not exact the same rework but it's inferior version so there won't be exact same reason to dislike it.