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Wilson rework is a waste of potential.


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Come on, seriously? Torch, beard, and a little bit of shimmering. That's it? That's all you could come up with using this new awesome concept? Build your own character, farm experience to unlock skills, but what's the point when there's barely anything to pick from?

I don't get why we barely got anything. Are klei on a deadline? Why? I'm not eager for this rework to come out, I'd wait a few more weeks if it meant better quality. 

There is no reason to have 7 torch and 7 beard skills. You either get those upgraded to third stage or you don't upgrade them at all. Why not cut the stages to get from 7 to 3 and just come up with something else in freed space? If you lack creativity you can just check feedback of what kind of perks people want.

There could be medic themed perks, cooking themed perks, farm themed perks, combat themed perks, survival themed perks, sanity themed perks, magic themed perks, science themed perks, teamwork, geography, sailing, hunting and many many more. 

I also wanna point out how boring leveling up and experience gaining is. You get exp from simply existing instead of doing something like crafting, fighting or cooking. I know this isn't rpg but the current level up system is not interactive enough to do legitimately. 

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This is also why I don't get why so many people want skill trees for all characters, first, it'd make the wilson one EVEN MORE boring, and if they were as inconsequential as wilson's is then it's a waste of dev time  that could be spent on amazing content for all characters, we just went through 4 years of reworks either way, most characters got what they deserved.

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Honestly, I would've never guessed that it's Wilson's rework based on the main title screen if it didn't specify "Wilson Refresh Beta". Nightmare Werepig takes a big part of the art and his fighting music plays. I know Wilson is in it, too, but he's often present on content update arts as a mascot of the game. Arts for other reworks had the main characters in front and center.

I know it's nitpicking but I think it symbolizes that Nightmare Werepig and his drops took over the update while Wilson took the backseat.

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Wilson is "THE" starting character - is supposed to be "blank" for beginners/noobs: no pros/cons/perks/mechanics. For this purpose the "added fuzz" on top, aka Insight Points and minor skill tree, kinda stands to reason in 1) being rather minimal utility-wise; 2) being survival-based, since surviving is biggest hurdle for beginners. Light and Insulation are among biggest problems newbies encounter, and certainly food. True, beard storage for meals is very silly, starting from a meme; but then again Wilson always was a joke - he is a scientist in name-only. A science enthusiast maybe, but not adept at "sciencing", not at all. Most of his quotes are pun-driven. In a sense he's comic relief in a cartoon-y, noire, world. That's it. But to also mitigate advanced players' desires, Wilson got transmutation powers and additional Shadow-damage - in tune with him sitting for a bit, in DS, on the Nightmare Throne before Charlie effectively "yoinking" him off of it and throwing poor Higgsbury back "in the fry" of DST Constant's madness. I get certain people envisioned Wilson as some Tesla figure, a "jack of all trades" genius. Yet he really isn't that, never was. At least his new RPG type ability is different from all rest of cast. Wilson is DS/T's mascot, yes, still no "king of the hill" to eclipse all the others - and in that sense his rework is in-tune with the rest.

PS: "..could be medic themed perks (Wortox, Wigfrid), cooking themed perks (Warly; Willow & Walter on-the-go), farm themed perks (Wormwood), combat themed perks (Wolfgang, Wigfrid, Wanda, Maxwell), survival themed perks (Walter, Wendy), sanity themed perks (Max, Wendy, Wigfrid), magic themed perks (Wickerbottom, Max), science themed perks (Wickerbottom), teamwork (Wortox, Wendy, Warly), geography (Wortox, WX, Wanda, as in exploration/quick travel), sailing (there isn't such a character, like DS's Woodlegs), hunting (Wigfrid, sort of).." - already existing. Once more: Wilson isn't some "jack of all trades".

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Wilson hasn’t been the “starter character” since Solo DS, and UNLESS Klei wants to lock every playable character away through needing to earn EXP or do X specific Task again: Wilson will never BE the starter character again…. And more importantly, who is going to pick him when the entire cast is available to pick/choose from right from the start?

Wilsons rework feels rushed, many people are disappointed by it, and I personally don’t see how what’s currently in beta even comes just HALF close to capturing the persona of the man we have seen in Animated Cinematics.. but maybe that’s just a “Me” thing.

Wilson isn’t the only character who I felt felt rushed Wigfrids rework to me seemed to colossally miss what I expected out of her, and even still, the “Inspiration” meter is really only good for boss fights.

If I wanted the characters to still play largely the same as they always have- I wouldn’t have been excited for Reworks to begin with.

Wes was one of my favorite reworks because they took a character who had literally nothing, & gave him “Something” 
I’m not hating on the Wilson rework, some of the ideas sound pretty neat, but I don’t think none of what’s presently being offered captures the personality Klei has always shown him as having.

I also feel like had Klei hired a group of people who’s ONLY job was to come up with creative ways of reworking X character they were really passionate about, we would’ve seen the reworks really bring the cast to life in new and exciting ways.. rather than this “let’s just get this over with..” attitude the devs seem to have taken. OR the mindset of the community “These reworks took 4 Years to do and took away development time and resources they could’ve used to do new content!”

I feel like I need a Facepalm Emote..  for ONE: Reworks DO = New Content, or at least it should have had Klei hired people to fully bring their cast of characters to life.

AND It even shows in their ARTWORK & Cinematics.. there’s an image of “Wormwood the Plant Bender..” and seriously? He can’t even DO THAT in game.. there’s an Animation of Wolfgang effortlessly carrying heavy giant vegetables in his arms in front of him (which in gameplay should’ve meant he could wear a backpack while still carrying heavy stuff..)

In short: It’s very clear to me that due to Klei’s self-imposed Content crunch schedule- that ideas got “cut” things got “rushed” and other things simply didn’t get the time or true amount of attention it deserved.

I hate to feel this way cause I want to see the DS/DST franchise become massively successful someday, but when I see things like Water Logged Part 2 (yes it had a part 2 that never released according to scrapped concepts) or Reworks that are highly questionable and do not bring to life the characters I’m seeing in animations.. it just makes me very doubtful & sad.

I love the DS/DST franchise, what I DON’T love is how it took 4 years to rework the entire cast of playable characters & yet people still feel like some of them still need more tweaks/reworking.

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19 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Wilson is "THE" starting character - is supposed to be "blank" for beginners/noobs:

Even if he is, I played with a fair share of beginners. No one picks him. They look at portraits in the character selection, read character perks and choose a character who seems cool. Their choice usually falls on Wendy, Wigfrid or WX. Why would you play with a generic-looking man who grows a beard when you have a girl with personal bodyguard, a warrior tank and a cool robot?

If the intention of the refresh was to make him more appealing to beginners, it accomplished nothing. They will still play Wendy.

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I felt felt rushed Wigfrids rework

I think you're spoiled by other reworks that fundamentally changed the way the characters were played. They received big changes because they were huge resource sinks, not multi-player friendly or simply unbalanced. Wigfrid didn't get changed as much because she didn't need it. Her downside might not be as strong, but it's definitely noticeable and can't be neglected with the late game gear. She transitioned smoothly to multiplayer and actually played a role on the team. There was zero reason to give her a WX-scale overhaul because she wasn't broken.

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7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I love the DS/DST franchise, what I DON’T love is how it took 4 years to rework the entire cast of playable characters & yet people still feel like some of them still need more tweaks/reworking.

This only happened because kiel became extremely lax on how strong perks could be around halfway through the refreshes making the first ones to be reworked feel very lackluster in comparison.

I imagine had they come sooner Bernie! would have had a method to be used while sane and would have been given ways to interact with lunar content because people would have been more vocal about it because the standards of power creep would have been set perhaps even giving him the ability to extinguish fires in Willow's stead.

For Woodie I'd almost bet he wouldn't have lost hunger or hp to use his transformations possibly not even sanity with a higher degree of control over his transformations.

Even Walter's not safe from this with his slingshot just look at how slow his slingshot is vs webber's horde of spitters. Or his expensive niche crowd control rounds vs Maxwell's mostly free cage.

Not saying this is the direction I would have prefered but it's clear how much more balance was considered in older refreshes. 

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2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I imagine had they come sooner Bernie! would have had a method to be used while sane and would have been given ways to interact with lunar content because people would have been more vocal about it because the standards of power creep would have been set perhaps even giving him the ability to extinguish fires in Willow's stead.

I imagine if the rework came out later, Willow would be a proper pyromaniac with craftable explosives and stuff. I think they also changed their approach to balancing the game around griefing on pubs. Based on recent reworks, they don't really seem to care about that as much as they did when Willow was reworked.

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I can’t tell if people don’t like the power level of the skill tree or the skill tree itself. The only thing that gets me about the update is it should have encouraged a play style through downsides taken voluntarily when you take upsides. But for what the Wilson update is, it’s pretty good! Almost every branch is worth taking for some people in certain situations and I think that’s a decent marker of quality for this update.

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56 minutes ago, CrisBlu said:

Personally I actually like the perks Wilson can get access to, they’re not massive but they’re interesting and helpful

They're alright but there's like... two. He can place torch on the ground and store food in extra slots.

Alchemy I don't even consider to be a skill (it's just crafting recipes you get for sacrificing lp) and It dosen't have a lot going on for it either. 

You can get twigs if you are cursed with twiggy trees, you can get decent flint and nitre farms, you can waste rocks on marble, you can waste a lot of gems, and you can make hambat out of monkeys. Did I miss anything noteworthy? 

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4 minutes ago, CrisBlu said:

I can’t tell if people don’t like the power level of the skill tree or the skill tree itself.

I like the tree but it doesn't really give the players an option to build their own Wilson. Apart from alchemy, there aren't enough appealing branches, so most people would go for full alchemist Wilson with beard storage.

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30 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

They're alright but there's like... two. He can place torch on the ground and store food in extra slots.

Alchemy I don't even consider to be a skill (it's just crafting recipes you get for sacrificing lp) and It dosen't have a lot going on for it either. 

You can get twigs if you are cursed with twiggy trees, you can get decent flint and nitre farms, you can waste rocks on marble, you can waste a lot of gems, and you can make hambat out of monkeys. Did I miss anything noteworthy? 

I find the ability to change gems a neat addition, I always tend to have too much of the gem I don’t need and not enough of the ones I do and Wilson can even make the green gems he could use to make his crafting recipes cheaper.

 

Ores is something I’m definitely putting at least 2 in every time, the ability to turn nitre in gold helps a ton in the very early game before you’ve found a rock biome or pig king, then once you have gold you can turn it back into normally hard to renew nitre to make morning stars, salt licks, gunpowder, hostile flares, endothermic fires (having one spare is always nice). Not to mention if you’re into teamwork Winona and Webber both appreciate lots of nitre that you can provide. The marble… yeah I’ll give you that’s not incredibly helpful, but at least you can turn it 1 to 1 into cut stone, which is bound to come in handy at least early game. I don’t typically rush the celestial portal but perhaps the moon rock recipe could help with that?

 

Icky I could see myself doing each tier for different reasons 

Tier 1: If I’m playing with friends turning 1 big meat into 2 morsels is a great way to make food go further.

Tier 2: If I don’t want beard growth perks, I can take this and shave beefalo for all the beard hair I need

Tier 3: If I’m focusing on farming I think I would spring for this, it makes the bucket of poop pretty accessible, though if you ask me what would really sell this perk is turning manure into like 3 rot as well.

As far as the other two trees go

Beard:

Insulation - takes Wilson from a character who didn’t have to worry too much about winter, to a character who can literally ignore winter lmao, dude can last a full day and a quarter with just his full beard if you overheat before leaving. Granted it’s only winter, it may turn winter into a second autumn but it the perk does only matter for 1/4th the game year unless you get wet.

 

Growth Speed - Grow to layer three, shave it off to get 6 beard hairs. Watch it grow back in 5 days, you’re basically making a beard hair a day. If beard hair gets a really good use this will be insane, but as it is now you can make a lot of meat effigies, good for keeping both yourself alive and your friends if they aren’t so good at staying alive like mine aren’t.

 

Torch:

Light - at max you get as much light as a lantern, I might just want to use a lantern but I’ve seen plenty of people say they like this ability. I’m planning on trying it out and seeing how I feel about having lantern light so easily accessible.

Durability - this one is rough, at max your torch goes form lasting 1 minute to 2, why would you even want this if you didn’t have the light perk anyway?

 

Sorry, that was rambley but I think my conclusion is the same, these things may not be IMPACTFUL but they all are at least neat save for torch durability and likely to come in handy based on how you play the game.

 

 

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All this rework screams rushed, out of schedule and last minute thoughts. Also I want to point out that Wilson received very little changes through the entirety of the beta, with beard rug and beard trimming be the only big ones. It speaks for itself.

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I really wish there was some "Survival" skill tree. Torch and beard perks could be put there too, while also having room for other useful perks. Wilson is canonicly an experienced survivor, he could get extra loot from gathering materials, get extra meat while butchering hunted animal, have better walls with more HP, more durability with tools, spear and basic armor, better healing from crafted heal items...

A little but useful buffs and additions with surviving aspect, you name it. All this things learnt and gained could help new players and make old Wilson mains more happy to have their character be an actual character, not just a joke with a torch and beard skills

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1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

I imagine if the rework came out later, Willow would be a proper pyromaniac with craftable explosives and stuff.

Willow’s refresh never even made sense.

Oh, we have to come up with something for the pyromaniac.

Hmm.

How’s about a teddy bear?

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6 minutes ago, Milordo said:

All this rework screams rushed, out of schedule and last minute thoughts. Also I want to point out that Wilson received very little changes through the entirety of the beta, with beard rug and beard trimming be the only big ones. It speaks for itself.

Are we talking about character getting changed during the beta or at the start of it? Cause if during the beta, Klei almost never makes major changes to their design in these refresh Betas.

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

I like the tree but it doesn't really give the players an option to build their own Wilson. Apart from alchemy, there aren't enough appealing branches, so most people would go for full alchemist Wilson with beard storage.

I’ve seen a decent amount of people be interested in the torch tree, especially for ruins rushing.

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16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wilson isn’t the only character who I felt felt rushed Wigfrids rework to me seemed to colossally miss what I expected out of her, and even still, the “Inspiration” meter is really only good for boss fights.

What do you mean? Wigfrid rework was one of the best, up on the list. The fact that for once, developers and community, unite together and agreed 100% on how the character is and needed, it's pure magical. Wigfrid didn't need it a total rework and the refresh did her justice, staying on her themes, giving new things that went perfectly on her kit. She's one of the oldest and least content character? Yes, absolutely if you compare it with Wx, Maxwell and Wanda for example. But if you take her as it is, she works flawelessly 100% with no problems. (I'm not counting balance. That's a whooolllllee big canister of depth worms and you're totally right about the inspiration working only on boss fights due to balancing).

While if you compare it now to Wilson, it's completely the opposite. It doesn't even give bad failed gentelman scientist vibe, atleast with Wigfrid was in theme. 

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I hate to feel this way cause I want to see the DS/DST franchise become massively successful someday, but when I see things like Water Logged Part 2 (yes it had a part 2 that never released according to scrapped concepts) or Reworks that are highly questionable and do not bring to life the characters I’m seeing in animations.. it just makes me very doubtful & sad.

I didn't know anything about Water Logged Part 2, do you have a source for all the scrapped concepts? I'm really curious

15 hours ago, CrisBlu said:

I can’t tell if people don’t like the power level of the skill tree or the skill tree itself. The only thing that gets me about the update is it should have encouraged a play style through downsides taken voluntarily when you take upsides. But for what the Wilson update is, it’s pretty good! Almost every branch is worth taking for some people in certain situations and I think that’s a decent marker of quality for this update.

A bit of both, but more leaning on the skill tree itself. Poorly thought and coinced, anti-don't starve in design and all, a bit powerful even in normal hands thus breaking the formula of having perk and abilities without downside, boring, repetitive, not user friendly and more. 

15 hours ago, maxwell_winters said:

I imagine if the rework came out later, Willow would be a proper pyromaniac with craftable explosives and stuff. I think they also changed their approach to balancing the game around griefing on pubs. Based on recent reworks, they don't really seem to care about that as much as they did when Willow was reworked.

And finally I would say that Klei  abandoned the 2015 mentality. Don't starve shouldn't be designed around pubs.

14 hours ago, CrisBlu said:

Are we talking about character getting changed during the beta or at the start of it? Cause if during the beta, Klei almost never makes major changes to their design in these refresh Betas.

"Also I want to point out that Wilson received very little changes through the entirety of the beta,"         

Klei did major changes during betas. The firsts that come to mind are Maxwell and Wolfgang. Or Woodie too.

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30 minutes ago, abrocator said:

Willow’s refresh never even made sense.

Oh, we have to come up with something for the pyromaniac.

Hmm.

How’s about a teddy bear?

Willow has had that Teddy Bear in her artwork since Solo DS, it’s not something they just randomly added in. Being completely immune to fire damage is also I highly Overlooked perk- you can light enemies on fire and as they scatter in panic stand in the center of it all and attack, you can light a Tree on Fire and stand in its flames to prevent things from attacking you (actually sorta useful in large hound waves)

& @Milordo no I do not have those scrapped concepts but it included this little thing here: which I really wish gets added as sort of like the Hamlet Lotus Flower, but with a % chance to be that critter.

5B11AFC1-3C2E-4085-9760-C5D2B136F3F3.thumb.png.ad6f638a55b64fc05f8ec19b8f7067ce.png

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3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

& @Milordo no I do not have those scrapped concepts but it included this little thing here: which I really wish gets added as sort of like the Hamlet Lotus Flower, but with a % chance to be that critter.

5B11AFC1-3C2E-4085-9760-C5D2B136F3F3.thumb.png.ad6f638a55b64fc05f8ec19b8f7067ce.png

Very cute, but where did you find this drawing and the rest of it? It's in some Klei live? Or wiki?

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4 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Very cute, but where did you find this drawing and the rest of it? It's in some Klei live? Or wiki?

It was shown off in the Waterlogged dev stream. The two main cut/unimplemented pieces of content I can remember is this little goofy creature, and lily pads which they had concepted as being mechanically similar to boats in that they move around and can be hopped on.

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13 minutes ago, Hornete said:

It was shown off in the Waterlogged dev stream. The two main cut/unimplemented pieces of content I can remember is this little goofy creature, and lily pads which they had concepted as being mechanically similar to boats in that they move around and can be hopped on.

Can dev streams be recoverable?

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1 hour ago, Milordo said:

"Also I want to point out that Wilson received very little changes through the entirety of the beta,"         

Klei did major changes during betas. The firsts that come to mind are Maxwell and Wolfgang. Or Woodie too.

Unless I'm forgetting something I'm pretty sure Woodie's changes were just number tweaks which is something Wilson got too.

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

A bit of both, but more leaning on the skill tree itslef. Poorly thought and coinced, anti-don't starve in design and all, a bit powerful even in normal hands thus breaking the formula of having perk and abilities without downside, boring, repetitive, not user friendly and more.

bit confused on the not user friendly part in what way?

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40 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Unless I'm forgetting something I'm pretty sure Woodie's changes were just number tweaks which is something Wilson got too.

bit confused on the not user friendly part in what way?

1) If I remember correctly apart from numbers, the goose being able to "swim" in the ocean, the moose having armor and others nifty things. Also the numbers changes to Woodie were substantial, while Wilson they were very little.

2) That once you allocate all the points to Wilson you need to reset a run or swap character to re-assign his points.

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