what character needs a nerf?

[00petar00]

On 1/5/2023 at 9:15 PM, Superlucas1231 said:

The way I see, if you compare someone who knows beefalo taming between when it was first released vs. someone who know beefalo taming now, then the present player would be at an advantage. What you're arguing is that both the former and latter players don't know how to tame beefalo so then the update would not impact them. That's true that it wouldn't impact them, but when they learn about how to tame them, the present player would have an advantage over the one playing when taming released/prior to YotB. Which is why i thought that YotB would make the game at least somewhat easier, because beefalo are now better than back then, and there isn't any additional downsides to their buff.

The issue is that beefalo taming wasn't even worth it before YOTB. I don't understand players that literally like to torture themselves just because it makes the game hard, there's difference between interesting hard gameplay like dark soul games but there's a difference when it is just boring and tedious and even soul games can be easy if you play them long enough, people feel accomplished and can see the such a big difference that it feels like it was worth learning while beefalo taming will always be similar and a waiting game.

To be honest with you, I still don't tame beefalo as it doesn't seem fun or worth it to me since I play Wanda as I really dislike travelling in DST. It still baffles me how there has been no changes to lazy deserter. While I understand that DST is a multiplayer game, it just doesn't make sense for you to have to spend so much time travelling, especially after you have played on the same world for a long time. I'll say this, if I don't play Wanda, i would tame beefalo.

On 1/5/2023 at 9:15 PM, Superlucas1231 said:

The point is, both of these mechanics/changes makes parts of the game more rewarding without adding in additional challenges to them. Pubs are going to be filled with people who don't understand much of the game, that's true. But i don't think that means that either of these pure buffs doesn't make the game at least somewhat easier because said pub players don't engage with them. That just means the game has been made easier, at least somewhat, for the people who knows those mechanics and not newbies. If your argument was that the game was dumb down, rather than the game being made easier, then i'd agree with you. 

 

I don't think you are understanding what Guille is saying, majority of the players don't ever fight bosses or survive after the first year. We are losing so many players to the difficulty while most of the changes that happened that made the game easier for us, people with a lot of hours into the game while it doesn't make the game easier for new players.

Majority of the players that play any game won't stick around for long but there is a percentage that is going to stay if you manage to show them how good the game is at the start, people that say that you have to play for 100 hours before it gets good don't understand that over 99.9% of players won't play for that long just because you told them that it is a hill they must climb before they get access to the fun part. Most of gamers spend only 2-5 hours a week playing games, do you expect them to invest 100 hours into a game just because you think it gets better after X amount of hours?

While I won't say that DST updates didn't make the game easier for me over the years, i appreciate the easier gameplay when it comes to tedious tasks that aren't fun.

I don't think I need to reply to your everything as it ties back to the same result, at least 99% of players won't build celestial portal, fight CC and FW or probably most of other bosses either.

On 1/5/2023 at 9:15 PM, Superlucas1231 said:

But multiple characters received straight buffs. I mentioned Wortox and Webber because both of them have more tools to used than they did before. Webber having more healing options for spiders and having more tools to manage them would generally make him more easier. Wortox being able to teleport around the map instead of having to spam teleport makes him easier to play. Wormwood especially is a perfect example because RWYS straight up gave him more healing options, reduce the cons with blooming, etc. Like, im looking at this thread and the common opinion is that Wormwood was made  easier to play.

Wortox was really weak, his downside made me decide to never play him but now with the buffs he is decent. I don't really see your point here, Wormwood and Webber also aren't top tier characters even after the buffs. Why shouldn't weaker characters be buffed? This isn't a PVP game but that isn't a reason not to try to make every character at least somewhat match stronger ones.

On 1/5/2023 at 9:15 PM, Superlucas1231 said:

hostile flares I have mix opinions about looking back. My line of reasoning was that if a player experimented with hostile flares, they can now set up more desirable ways to kill deerclops and have much more control over her. yes, this would mean the first time they use the item they would have to deal with deerclops without being prepared for her. But unlike RWYS and stonefruit/bananas, where you have to make a dedicated effort to learn the new mechanics and get punished if you didn't, hostile flares is another tool experience players can use to make the game easier for them. and this goes into my general point and why I don't understand the argument about how the game hasn't been made easier -

If a mechanic has been added that only makes the game easier for a endgame player, but doesn't drastically affect the difficulty for a new player, wouldn't that still means that the game has been made easier, at least for some players? 

Deerclops is one of the easiest bosses to kill, hostile flares made the game better as DST is multiplayer and it should be balanced around it. Eyebrella is one of the strongest insulation items in the game as it gives full rain protection and has 240 insulation for summer, so it makes 2 seasons so much easier to deal with. Why should it be limited to one player? That would just encourage people to play alone or spend the entire summer in caves.

It does make the game easier for very small amount of intermediate and veteran players but it also makes them more likely to play with other people if they can all get the same item they want from a boss that was otherwise limited to 1 a year.

On 1/5/2023 at 9:15 PM, Superlucas1231 said:

If Klei gave Wilson more tools to heal himself, buff others, and do things more efficiently, all without any additional downside to his character, would you think he has been easier to play? 

This goes back to previous Wormwood,Wortox and Webber buffs, there is argument to be made that Wilson should be as vanilla as possible but for every other character I don't see a problem if they get buffed to match some of the stronger ones.

On 1/5/2023 at 9:15 PM, Superlucas1231 said:

I'm asking these questions because i'm re-reading some of the points, especially the beefalo one, and I'm confused as to why the new update to beefs didn't make beefalo taming easier, and therefore not make the game easier, because someone who has never invested in beefs would not be impacted by the update... but...the people who have already invested in beefalo taming before the update are just... irrelevant? I can't see how the update didn't make beefalo taming easier unless the argument was never about the game being easier, but if the game has been dumbed-down.

Travelling in DST isn't fun at all, that's one of the main reasons I play Wanda. What creature can even match your speed in game? You can outrun almost all enemies without dodging. Beefalo taming was so bad and even now after the YOTB it is still hard enough that a lot of veterans don't want to bother, it does negate some of the weaknesses of a few characters with lower damage modifiers but that isn't really bad as there are items in the game that some characters benefit more from compared to others, especially since beefalo taming is still a very long process.

On 1/5/2023 at 9:15 PM, Superlucas1231 said:

i know it redundant to state this because this doesn't apply to everyone, but if knowledge on some of these mechanics are readily available through other players, forums, game announcements, and other sources, would that not take away the already small time sink to figuring out how to use celestial portal and hostile flares? 

I became aware of this when some of the regular forum users started complaining about difficulty encountered in a new update, I forgot which one it was but it isn't the same when you read patch notes and read threads on the most optimal setups that veteran players figure out in the first day of the release using god mode with trial and error or data mining. They don't take into consideration that it may take even even a player with a thousand hours into the game a lot of time to figure it out on his own and knowledge about mechanics is very rewarding.

[Tranoze]

19 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

majority of the players don't ever fight bosses or survive after the first year.

I dont think game should be balanced about "majority" of the players, whose die in first winter then uninstall game right after that. I dont consider people who install the game, play it once, see the game doesn't fit them, and uninstall an never play it again a part of a player base. Yes they are the "Majority". If you talk about majority, just balance the game about 7 billions people who doesnt even play the game, they totally outnumber who play games.

I consider the game should be balanced about people have decent knowledge about the game, can survive by themself, and like to explore more about the game. Game can add more hints/ feature assist new players, but should never be balanced around them.

[00petar00]

25 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

I dont think game should be balanced about "majority" of the players, whose die in first winter then uninstall game right after that. I dont consider people who install the game, play it once, see the game doesn't fit them, and uninstall an never play it again a part of a player base. Yes they are the "Majority". If you talk about majority, just balance the game about 7 billions people who doesnt even play the game, they totally outnumber who play games.

I consider the game should be balanced about people have decent knowledge about the game, can survive by themself, and like to explore more about the game. Game can add more hints/ feature assist new players, but should never be balanced around them.

The idea is to retain as much of these players because there is much more of them percentage wise compared to the ones that are actively participating in the community and have thousands of hours. There should absolutely be some updates oriented towards new players as even a small percentage of new players decide to stay and consider DST as their long term game, just because of an update, it will increase the playerbase by a lot and klei will make more money.

[Lardee]

 

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

I dont think game should be balanced about "majority" of the players, whose die in first winter then uninstall game right after that. I dont consider people who install the game, play it once, see the game doesn't fit them, and uninstall an never play it again a part of a player base. Yes they are the "Majority". If you talk about majority, just balance the game about 7 billions people who doesnt even play the game, they totally outnumber who play games.

I consider the game should be balanced about people have decent knowledge about the game, can survive by themself, and like to explore more about the game. Game can add more hints/ feature assist new players, but should never be balanced around them.

Like it or not, the majority of players are what keeps the game alive, keeps the Don't Starve Together brand profitable which allows Klei to keep their servers running and produce more content.  Their first priority should be to make characters fun enough that new players will buy the game, recommend it to friends and stick around.

While I think that balancing the characters at the highest level of gameplay to a certain extent isn't a bad thing, it shouldn't be their priority.

[Tranoze]

5 hours ago, Lardee said:

While I think that balancing the characters at the highest level of gameplay to a certain extent isn't a bad thing, it shouldn't be their priority.

Im not talking balancing at the "highest level of game play" i'm talking about players that can live past 1 year mark, and know how to survive, as opposite to previous statement:

8 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

majority of the players don't ever fight bosses or survive after the first year

To me, i think majority of players base is players who have decent ability to survive.
-Know what kite is.
-Know what it take to survive harsh season.
-Know to cook some common dished.
-Know that most info can be searched on wiki.
(Know, not master the ability)

For profit wise:
Stage 0: People havent bought the game, and can buy the game to make profit for klei.
Stage 1: People already bought the game and decide the game are not for them after first few play, wont play the game again, wont make any more profit for klei.
Stage 2: People have atleast skill above. They will most likely to continue the game and play, thus sometimes buys skin and give klei profit.
Stage 3: Veteran players who know almost everything about the game.

Stage 1 have the most players. But i dont consider them in part of player base of this game, so i believe stage 2 is the majority. However some people here say "majority of the players don't ever fight bosses or survive after the first year." which they think stage 1 is part of player base, a big part at that and should be balanced around them.

The "Make character stronger make game easier"... are trying to keep players at stage 2 having easier life.
The "blancing toward new players", "make game easier for newbie",... are trying to make more people at stage 1 come to stage 2. Problem is the game hardness are not the only reason newbies quit the game, making the game easier for newbies might not attract them to the game. some people just might not like the game after they play it because of visual, or because of they dont like the game mechanic,...

Sometimes, new players need to experience first few death so they have to prepare to avoid it. This is how the game originally want us to learn, through death. There are no wiki/guide in game, If you die in summer, next time, you always have thermal stone and icebox before summer come, or you always stay incave next summer.
If you die by low rain sanity, next time it rain, before wetness come, you will prepare umbrella.

[00petar00]

14 hours ago, Tranoze said:

To me, i think majority of players base is players who have decent ability to survive.
-Know what kite is.
-Know what it take to survive harsh season.
-Know to cook some common dished.
-Know that most info can be searched on wiki.
(Know, not master the ability)

Its easy to understand that majority of the playerbase are casuals that haven't survived the first year and have never fought any bosses except deerclops and probably died, all of the things you mentioned is what players that have already invested a decent amount of time in DST will know.

Do you think players should be encouraged or forced to use wiki? I know people that wouldn't want to use wiki for any game just because they enjoy playing like that, if you force players to use wiki to learn the game as I agree with you that DST does that as there is so much of the information about the game that isn't given to the player and how many attempts you would need at any boss without any outside information would make a lot of people quit.

14 hours ago, Tranoze said:

For profit wise:
Stage 0: People havent bought the game, and can buy the game to make profit for klei.
Stage 1: People already bought the game and decide the game are not for them after first few play, wont play the game again, wont make any more profit for klei.
Stage 2: People have atleast skill above. They will most likely to continue the game and play, thus sometimes buys skin and give klei profit.
Stage 3: Veteran players who know almost everything about the game.

If someone gives up just after buying the game, they won't make more profit for klei as you have said but it is in klei's best interest to try to keep as many of these players as they can, I would even go as far as say that they should have some updates geared towards doing that as the more players that keep playing and enjoying the game, the more money they'll spend on skins and the bigger the playerbase the longer the livespan and investment there will be in the game so it is good for long time players too.

If an update klei makes manages to convert at least some percetange of stage 1 players to stage 2, it would be very good for the game.

14 hours ago, Tranoze said:

The "blancing toward new players", "make game easier for newbie",... are trying to make more people at stage 1 come to stage 2. Problem is the game hardness are not the only reason newbies quit the game, making the game easier for newbies might not attract them to the game. some people just might not like the game after they play it because of visual, or because of they dont like the game mechanic,...

I don't really agree with you here, I have friends who decided not to continue playing DS/DST after trying it out because of the "uncompromising" survival, a lot of the players want to be able to learn the game just by playing, the more barriers to entry the less players that will stay, if you require someone to read the wiki or watch youtube videos to learn how to fight some bosses or to learn the best strategies, the less players will stay as only a minority of the players do that.

Losing isn't that fun in DST except maybe at the start where you literally don't know anything and you don't lose much by dying night 1 to darkness for example. If you are required to put in some time and build a base and die to deerclops like a lot of the players do, they'll just quit as it isn't fun to lose all that effort.

A lot of the players on the forums don't understand how the game is generally played by people that don't read or watch anything about it, you see people break down every little detail about any update and you consider it easy but to any player that doesn't read up on it, it will take a while to figure it out. This isn't just about the new players but anyone that doesn't want to spend any time outside of the game to learn information about it.

I have played Amazing Cultivation Simulator on steam and that game really opened my eyes when it comes to learning the game by reading literally like a book so that i can play it efficiently. I have spent so much time just reading and watching youtube videos before I understood a lot of the mechanics, probably more than any other game I ever played in the last 20 years and I understand that I am not an ordinary casual gamer but that I belong to an extreme small percentage of players that has a lot of time to invest into learning a game and won't mind it and you can probably count these players in the 100s that know as much about that game as me, so that means that majority of the players won't ever tap into ACS and enjoy it as much as I did because of how much knowledge you need to learn outside of the game to do so, it is not a good game for average players.

While DST isn't nearly as bad as ACS when it comes to learning it, its still a big problem considering how punishing it is and that you lose everything when a single mistake happens and you die, that's why so many veterans just rollback or practice any new boss on test servers before doing it on their main save files and the same veterans will complain when game becomes easier to play.

[Mike23Ua]

I think some of the biggest problems I (& I’m sure other people have as well..) with DST is that the entire darn game is structured around the premises of being a Multiplayer game. 

What does this mean exactly? Enemy mobs have 5x as much health, many items such as lazy explorer is designed with the intent you’ll have a coop player, even something as simple as steering and navigating a BOAT in DST becomes significantly easier when you have 1-2 other players to help operate the vessel. Then there’s the big issue, the one that has straight up made me want to rage quit at many times-

this games dumb Stun-Locking Horde Mentality… This is one of the single largest reasons I play as Wendy, and personally I’ve only seen Abigail as being “those other players” who would be helping me kill these hordes if I was playing Multiplayer.

And DST is just structured in a way that it’s completely unfair to play solo, being stun locked by large swarm mobs isn’t fun, fighting a spider that endlessly spawns minion spiders and has healing spiders isn’t fun, accidentally hitting a tall tree in the ocean and being swarmed by a bunch of water gliding spiders isn’t fun…

And Klei KNOWS THIS that’s what’s baffling about it, every trailer they show off of the game they show 2-3 people dealing with these “hordes” as a team.

And that overall is what hurts DST the most, it’s a game that should’ve been structured as a single player game first and foremost, and then throw in other players scaling the world with them.

This thread talks about Nerfing characters because I guess you people just feel some sort of jealous syndrome when your characters are underperforming compared to others, but the reality of things is that any character that feels like they’re underperforming should be BUFFED to match the ones you think need Nerfed into oblivion.

What we should really nerf is the swarm mobs that stun-lock the player preventing them from actually doing anything.

Like I said: I get that these things are designed with the intent you’ll bring along other players so your not the ONLY thing being targeted and stunned to death… Doesn’t change the fact that it sucks.

Even in the highly praised Arkham games with a room filled with thugs every thug doesn’t try to simultaneously attack Batman into oblivion all at once they instead, (and admittedly rather awkwardly) wait their turn to attempt to punch you in the face- which gives you a “fighting chance”

Something that DST does NOT do unless you

A: Use Wendy.

B: Wear Armor & Facetank Everything.

C: Get Crazy good at dodging & kiting.

or D: Bring along some friends so your not the only thing being attacked.

Honestly I truly feel like I’d rather they just re-release SOLO DS but as a 2 player coop game with all my skins available, at least THEN the game world would feel fair and balanced, unlike DSTs..

(Long rant over.. sorry just felt like venting today.)

[Tranoze]

49 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't really agree with you here, I have friends who decided not to continue playing DS/DST after trying it out because of the "uncompromising" survival, a lot of the players want to be able to learn the game just by playing, the more barriers to entry the less players that will stay, if you require someone to read the wiki or watch youtube videos to learn how to fight some bosses or to learn the best strategies, the less players will stay as only a minority of the players do that.

I remember reading/watching about DS beta day, where klei actually add guide/achivement for new players to learn the game, and some how for game like DS/DST, people stop play the game after they completed all achivement. That why there are no guide in the game and no achivement in the game in steam version.

If your friend think the game is hard just because he die once, twice,... maybe this type of game is not for him. Why "veteran" like me want newbies to experience death in this game? Because the best feeling i had in this game, is after dieing 5 times to something, i finally get the revenge on my 6th try. Killing a boss feel much better after knowing it can kill you. They will eventually die sooner or later, if they dont die to charlie first night, they will die to dogs on day 6, if not, they might die to spider.... 

Death is a part of playing in dst. Let say you are the guide for your friend, and try to prevent their death as much as possible on their first playthrough, do you think it is possible for them to live? Is it fun for them to have someone backseat on every action to prevent their death? 

You failed to convince your friend to play dst even though i believe you have decent knowledge about the game, do you think an ingame guide can do better?

[Guille6785]

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

I remember reading/watching about DS beta day, where klei actually add guide/achivement for new players to learn the game, and some how for game like DS/DST, people stop play the game after they completed all achivement. That why there are no guide in the game and no achivement in the game in steam version.

this was in an extremely early version of DS (even before the release of the chrome version iirc) and is not at all representative of how current DST works or how its players would react to such an inclusion, even klei devs have had to go out of their way to say this

2 hours ago, Tranoze said:

You failed to convince your friend to play dst even though i believe you have decent knowledge about the game, do you think an ingame guide can do better?

it's possible to make game mechanics much more intuitive without actually having a tutorial or in game guide, the dark souls games are highly praised for being able to do exactly this, they accomplish it with a mix of worldbuilding and slowly introducing players to core mechanics 1 step at a time but without dwelling on it for too long, I think the new recipe cards are a step in the right direction since they do exactly this minus the fact that they have incredibly misleading recipes but that can be improved

 

I don't think most people here are actually against the game becoming more new player-friendly, it's just a loud minority that would consider that a problem since a lot of us have had that disappointing experience of trying to get friends into the game and failing no matter what because it's just so frustrating to get to the good parts

[Cloakingsumo198]

42 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

it's possible to make game mechanics much more intuitive without actually having a tutorial or in game guide, the dark souls games

Don't most soul games start with those little messages on the floor explaining the controls while also giving beginner enemies?

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Don't most soul games start with those little messages on the floor explaining the controls while also giving beginner enemies?

a message telling you that r1 is a light attack isn't exactly a guide by most people's standards

it's just a reminder of the controls because believe it or not a lot of people who aren't familiar with games tend to get stuck at beginning areas because of not knowing basic controls

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

a message telling you that r1 is a light attack isn't exactly a guide by most people's standards

it's just a reminder of the controls because believe it or not a lot of people who aren't familiar with games tend to get stuck at beginning areas because of not knowing basic controls

It's more of a guide than anything dst had before the vague loading screen tips.

If its only to remind people of controls then there shouldn't be an issue implementing something similar to dst.

It's like what people say this isn't a souls game dst has become a lot more casual and it's clear people want to expand the current audience so things should be more accessible.

I believe there should be an option to play in a pre-built fully furnished tutorial world with "creative mode" and "developer options" for players to learn the basics of the game and to test out things that they may otherwise not be able to because of their time/skill.

It would help players decide what they desire from the game and make a goal, they could actually have a choice instead of being forced into a monotone gameplay loop until they give up or understand.

This is a sandbox game we should really be focusing on opening up the way people approach how they wanna play.

I'm surprised that klei hasn't already officially added a creative mode option or a cheat menu.

Messing with console commands is outdated and not to mention not available to anybody not on PC.

[slendyproject]

6 hours ago, Tranoze said:

I remember reading/watching about DS beta day, where klei actually add guide/achivement for new players to learn the game, and some how for game like DS/DST, people stop play the game after they completed all achivement. That why there are no guide in the game and no achivement in the game in steam version.

I would like to point out that based on the descriptions those were more like quests than achievements and were very early in development. Stuff like "gather 5 twigs" and similar things. And obviously those were both pointless and useless.

But in my opinion actual achievements that function as milestones would greatly benefit this game. Things that actually gently guide players towards things. Things like "uncover the ruins" "find the lunar island" and "beat x boss" would actually let players know of potential goals they could attempt to do while also keeping the cryptic nature of the game by not actually telling players how to do them or what to do to get there. I never really agreed that achievements prevent players from experimenting I just thought that the way they tried to implement them was not ideal.

Also the truth is that while dst wants to keep this air of being a pure hardcore survival game for whatever reason nowadays its way closer to an adventure sandbox game like terraria where you occasionally have to manage a stat or two. And like in terraria a list of objectives disguised as achievements would very much align with what the game currently is.

[Tranoze]

6 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

lot of us have had that disappointing experience of trying to get friends into the game and failing no matter what because it's just so frustrating to get to the good parts

True, it is almost impossible to get your irl friend started to play this game. How i observe people join this game, or how i join this game, is just not guide them to the game, but just play the "good parts" and let them observe you. If they like it, the good parts, they will eventually look for the game, and try it with much more determination. 
If you ask them to install the game and babysit each step, they wont have that determination to continue foward.

The good part that i saw in this game, the first time i saw it, is the first time i see a complex mechanic of game where pig and spider attack each other instead of both attack me, allow the friend who play this game to collect both of the loot. That very smart for a game to have this fun mechanic, and i instantly got hook into it as at that time, this game visual is very stunning to me.

Solo bosses are not often the good parts for them. Those good part are game "common mechanic", like how enemies go against each other, or fishing, or farming like harvest moon (nice tries stardew valley, every kids now remember this type of farming is from you, but not me.)...

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

What does this mean exactly? Enemy mobs have 5x as much health, many items such as lazy explorer is designed with the intent you’ll have a coop player, even something as simple as steering and navigating a BOAT in DST becomes significantly easier when you have 1-2 other players to help operate the vessel. Then there’s the big issue, the one that has straight up made me want to rage quit at many times-

some mobs has x2 hp, not x5. Raid bosses have more health than the regular giants from RoG but drop way more loot

there arent many items that are restricted to multiplayer. Only lazy deserter

navigating isnt easier in most scenarios with multiple people, is only using the steer and the anchor. True that with a controller can be a pain with that many pop ups but that is a problem with the game works with a controller not because the content is focused on multiplayer. Ck is the exception and still doable with one player (a one reason for the celestial portal to exists is to help with that)

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

this games dumb Stun-Locking Horde Mentality… This is one of the single largest reasons I play as Wendy, and personally I’ve only seen Abigail as being “those other players” who would be helping me kill these hordes if I was playing Multiplayer.

literally the only fighting mechanic that the game has that makes fighting interesting instead of wigfrids standing still holding F surrounded by enemies 

mastering this is one of the little things that requires a little of skill in the game and makes the difference between playing fearing monkeys, worms or hounds and knowing how to kill them

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

And DST is just structured in a way that it’s completely unfair to play solo, being stun locked by large swarm mobs isn’t fun, fighting a spider that endlessly spawns minion spiders and has healing spiders isn’t fun, accidentally hitting a tall tree in the ocean and being swarmed by a bunch of water gliding spiders isn’t fun…

for you, for me is really fun. If wasnt the case my friends and i wouldnt keep playing these last 10 years. We died that much in both versions and still here loving the mechanics of the game

btw, spider queen was thr 1st or second mini-giant added in the game. Poison birchnut trees were added in RoG, monkeys and crowds of shadows in the ruins were added in single player, womant queen and ancient herald are bosses from hamlet. Hound, worms, crocogs and vampire waves were added in every version of single player. Herd mentality is a mechanic as old as the game. All of this and more things im missing are content that uses numbers to try to kill the player, a single player

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Doesn’t change the fact that it sucks.

dont blame the game but the player

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Something that DST does NOT do unless you

A: Use Wendy.

B: Wear Armor & Facetank Everything.

C: Get Crazy good at dodging & kiting.

D: Wear armor and try to kite most of the atacks which requires less skill than 90% of games

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Honestly I truly feel like I’d rather they just re-release SOLO DS but as a 2 player coop game with all my skins available, at least THEN the game world would feel fair and balanced, unlike DSTs..

sure with bosses that die in less time than a dst beefalo and without preparation, just with your daily items... super fun in a crafting survival game...

 

[slendyproject]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

literally the only fighting mechanic that the game has that makes fighting interesting instead of wigfrids standing still holding F surrounded by enemies 

Well yeah thats not a good thing. Combat should have much more interesting mechanics than getting stunlocked. Fighting in general should be reworked. The devs did give some of the characters some things to make combat less basic (wolfgangs ranged attack, maxwells new kit etc) but it just needs more and it needs to affect everyone.

[Cloakingsumo198]

36 minutes ago, slendyproject said:

maxwells new kit

I've stopped playing Wolfgang because Maxwell's kit makes approaching combat much more fresh and enjoyable.