cpy Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 I wonder if there is a place for DLSS 3.0 here. Frame generation could probably help a lot in smoothing out this extremely CPU limited game. Decoupling mouse and camera movement from base game FPS would be really nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharraShimada Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 DLSS would be useless, because its just for graphics, and ONI graphics can run on a potato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Game's definitely bound to CPU-performance and RAM speed. I wonder if anyone's got a 5800X3D processor to see if the extra built-in high level cache has had much of a positive effect on performance, if any. I'm waiting for that to appear on the 7000-series to upgrade my rig anyhow. (This hand-me-down 4770K has been good but it's time to move on...) Graphics-wise, the card only needs to comply with "OpenGL core profile 3.2 or later", it can be a po-ta-to for all the rest of its specs. No biggie. I would also believe that scrolling speed was recently addressed/tweaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOLO KNIGHT Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Well let's not be too dismissive. How about a DLSS + 8k texture pack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharraShimada Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 17 hours ago, YOLO KNIGHT said: Well let's not be too dismissive. How about a DLSS + 8k texture pack? Event then... Its not the render-time that would slow down this, but the amount of Video-Ram used. Thats nothing DLSS could solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOLO KNIGHT Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 Sounds like a challenge to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabberworld Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 On 11/16/2022 at 5:41 PM, JRup said: Game's definitely bound to CPU-performance and RAM speed. I wonder if anyone's got a 5800X3D processor to see if the extra built-in high level cache has had much of a positive effect on performance, if any. I'm waiting for that to appear on the 7000-series to upgrade my rig anyhow. (This hand-me-down 4770K has been good but it's time to move on...) Graphics-wise, the card only needs to comply with "OpenGL core profile 3.2 or later", it can be a po-ta-to for all the rest of its specs. No biggie. I would also believe that scrolling speed was recently addressed/tweaked. Forget the 5800x3d its good but it have huge limit if you plan for example buy latest nvidia videocard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 I'm staying away from fire hazards nvidia, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpy Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 On 11/16/2022 at 4:41 PM, JRup said: Game's definitely bound to CPU-performance and RAM speed. I wonder if anyone's got a 5800X3D processor to see if the extra built-in high level cache has had much of a positive effect on performance, if any. I'm waiting for that to appear on the 7000-series to upgrade my rig anyhow. (This hand-me-down 4770K has been good but it's time to move on...) Graphics-wise, the card only needs to comply with "OpenGL core profile 3.2 or later", it can be a po-ta-to for all the rest of its specs. No biggie. I would also believe that scrolling speed was recently addressed/tweaked. That's the exact point of DLSS 3.0! It's for CPU limited scenarios, it bypasses game engine and smoothes frames directly in GPU. Don't you watch tech videos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 4 hours ago, cpy said: That's the exact point of DLSS 3.0! It's for CPU limited scenarios, it bypasses game engine and smoothes frames directly in GPU. Don't you watch tech videos? Read my prior post. Please, pretty please with a cherry on top. Not gonna go too far into that wormhole. I see it as a GPU bound beautifier, no magic bullet here. I have full confidence that the type of workloads found in ONI will not see a benefit from this. If we were talking something other than a simulation game, then yes, I'd be partial to the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpy Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 It is for CPU bound situations. Reading your post wont change fact that it is for CPU bound situations as MSFS shows. I do not wish to discuss this any further with you since you have absolute 0 understanding of DLSS 3.0 The way you see DLSS 3.0 does not change the way it works. Because you don't know how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharraShimada Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 49 minutes ago, cpy said: It is for CPU bound situations. Reading your post wont change fact that it is for CPU bound situations as MSFS shows. I do not wish to discuss this any further with you since you have absolute 0 understanding of DLSS 3.0 The way you see DLSS 3.0 does not change the way it works. Because you don't know how it works. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadenSwallow Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 I think there has been a misunderstanding on what dlss 3 will be capable of. Traditionally, a game will require the cpu to tell the graphics card what has changed in the game engine in order to create new graphics frames. Dlss will allow the graphics card to interpolate between any 2 cpu engine generated frames to create another gpu frame to double frames per second. What it won't do, is create new cpu engine generated frames to actually move the simulation forward. In a game such as a flight simulator or other motion simulator, under most circumstances, the player will try to be moving in a straight line so intermediate frames will be able to be found from equation of motion so AI will work well for this purpose. If the AI also has access to control inputs, it can further adapt this well to find intermediate frames that will be visually close to where the simulation actually works you out to be at so skipping a cpu frame is less likely to cause issues. ONI however isn't simulating motion of an object at a point, (think a stick floating on a river and how it moves from the perspective of the stick), but the much more complex simulation of how the river is at all points (think a wood chipped tree and how every chip is flowing in the river from the perspective of the river, where every chip is magnetic and interacts with every other chip). All combined, dlss might be able to guess where that pacu might move to, that puft, that packet on a conveyor belt, the packet in a pipe... But it doesn't know for certain and due to the complexities involved, we can't leave it to guesswork so still need to cpu 'render' the next real frame. We have doubled the frames sent to the computer monitor for nice smooth graphics rendering by interpolation, but haven't progressed the simulation any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juni3227 Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 ... I do not think 'using GPU to make game faster' work unless you fit entire game in to a tensor with tensor operators which... ah... Do you have any ideas to fit Dupes and Logistics into that? Not to mention, the late game takes over 10GB of ram. Even worse, this is hardware specific. And DLSS 3.0 is frame interpolation with extra steps not a miracle worker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpy Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 Wrong wrong and wrong! Frame interpolation will make that stupid jumpy camera movement and other stuff feel smoother. It will not predict where will pacu move it will just interpolate between where it was and where it is and make smoother animation or transition. Input delay will be higher but smoother feel would win in this game. Honestly this game needs full framerate decoupling suite not just interpolation. Sim rate should not be linked to framerate. Why can't i have smooth camera movement or object interaction while dupes will take their time to think and move and gas to exchange temperatures while im looking around base giving build order and such smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigamoi Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 On 11/16/2022 at 4:41 PM, JRup said: Game's definitely bound to CPU-performance and RAM speed. I wonder if anyone's got a 5800X3D processor to see if the extra built-in high level cache has had much of a positive effect on performance, if any. I'm waiting for that to appear on the 7000-series to upgrade my rig anyhow. (This hand-me-down 4770K has been good but it's time to move on...) I have a 5800X3D. I upgraded from a 5600X and saw no improvement using Francis John's benchmark as both had near perfect scores. The devs did an amazing job optimizing the engine since the benchmark was released. That being said, I suspect that's also caused by the fact that many CPU hungry processes, such as critter AI have been decoupled from the main simulation causing them to take action as many time slower relative to gameplay as the game speed is high, and individually less and less the more critter you have. A common issue caused by this is puffs starving because their AI doesn't make them eat frequently enough. My 5800X3D most likely helps keeping my AIs smart more than my 5600X did, but there is no way to tell as we don't have a reliable benchmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melquiades Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 @gigamoi When i hit the time limit on that particular test, i saw further improvements as an increase of frame rate, not less time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigamoi Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 @melquiades Yeah, it may work. Seems like a good idea. Measuring average framerate reliably may require tooling and I am not sure frames are a good indicator of all gameplay relevant stuff such as the AIs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpy Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 Crap I was hoping when I upgrade my CPU with that sweet X3D it would help even in ONI. I guess +30%-70% more UPS in factorio from it is insane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharraShimada Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 If UPS is delivering your packets, and not your ISP, i guess i found your problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabberworld Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 12 hours ago, cpy said: Crap I was hoping when I upgrade my CPU with that sweet X3D it would help even in ONI. I guess +30%-70% more UPS in factorio from it is insane! it depends what cpu you have now, you may even get 1000% boost if you still play with ddr2 pc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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