Let wereforms wear amulets?

[MadMatt]

This idea has been suggested for a while, being brought up in some threads about what should be changed about woodie and for good reason! The wereforms are fun and wonderful each in their own way but with the lazy forager now being able to be refueled it feels even worse that amulets aren't able to be utilized by woodie's wereforms. The applications would breathe new life into utilizing the wereforms not only as a QoL for woodie players making the process of picking items up while you're transformed easier, but also adding a new dimension to amulets through the use of magi and even the nightmare amulet. Lazy Forager will definitely become a staple of my gameplay now and it'd be so nice if it could be incorporated into the wereforms not just because it's a nice addition but also since it makes sense alongside the fact the backpack stays on. Why does an amulet get thrown off like a rigid helmet or log suit???

[ArubaroBeefalo]

if i could choose i would prefer a direct buff on the forms to make them viable in mid and late instead of amulets

like increase hp and damage for moose

[MadMatt]

16 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if i could choose i would prefer a direct buff on the forms to make them viable in mid and late instead of amulets

like increase hp and damage for moose

I have mixed feelings about number tweaking the wereforms since I (generally) like where they stand, but even if it made moose viable for fighting raid bosses i'd rather have amulets be usable for the forager alone. My heart swells just thinking about how much easier getting logs would be if you could chop and pick up as beaver.

[Wonz]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if i could choose i would prefer a direct buff on the forms to make them viable in mid and late instead of amulets

like increase hp and damage for moose

Yea the right direction with reworking stuff should be making it work in any part of the game and most importantly in late game.

[maxwell_winters]

I don't understand what amulets would give to the forms. Life-giving amulet would drain hunger even more. Chilled amulet isn't something you want to wear for long periods of time. Nightmare amulet - idk. Construction amulet - he can't craft. Lazy Forager - he can't access the inventory. Mag - all the forms already have night vision and Goose is already speedy. Besides, what if you need to refuel it and have no access to the inventory? 

[MadMatt]

8 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

I don't understand what amulets would give to the forms. Life-giving amulet would drain hunger even more. Chilled amulet isn't something you want to wear for long periods of time. Nightmare amulet - idk. Construction amulet - he can't craft. Lazy Forager - he can't access the inventory. Mag - all the forms already have night vision and Goose is already speedy. Besides, what if you need to refuel it and have no access to the inventory? 

You can't drain hunger if it's already going to be zero when you return, life giving amulet might have no effect or would be a source of constant healing based on whether the wereform meter is read as 0 hunger or full hunger. 

Chilled would have limited but not no uses, it can be used during summer to avoid overheating as a wereform since you can't craft or use items, as well as a way to freeze enemies for those previously mentioned reasons.

Nightmare amulet could be used to induce insanity while in Moose form to farm nightmare creatures without using weapon or armor durability. Dangerous use and niche, but still a use!

Construction amulet would be useless but Lazy Forager is FAR from useless. He can't access the inventory but it's still there and the Lazy Forager would give Woodie a means of being able to "pick up" items while in wereform. This application is most probably useful for gathering logs as beaver and spider drops as moose in my experience.

Magi would be useful for the 20% speed for all forms but most notably Moose since it would reverse his speed penalty making him more viable in everyday fighting. Also the Magi has a full day of use from 100%, and wereforms only last around 4 minutes. Unless you wait out an entire full moon + a half day worth of charge you wouldn't wear it out unless it was already depleted, in which case skill issue.


There are uses, it wouldn't be super game changing but that's the point. It gives the wereforms a much needed little boost by making gathering and fighting easier without giving them access to something no other character has. The Lazy Forager being refuelable is what warranted this discussion because now there are atleast 2 amulets that would be nice additions to the wereforms tasks.

[ADM]

7 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

I don't understand what amulets would give to the forms. Life-giving amulet would drain hunger even more. Chilled amulet isn't something you want to wear for long periods of time. Nightmare amulet - idk. Construction amulet - he can't craft. Lazy Forager - he can't access the inventory. Mag - all the forms already have night vision and Goose is already speedy. Besides, what if you need to refuel it and have no access to the inventory? 

I'm helping my friend @W0l0l0 on realising the exact mod that OP is looking for, and while I didn't really understand at first he made good points as for you you would want to wear the Life Giving Amulet instead of just nothing, as first there isn't any hunger while you are transformed, and Woodie in his Weremoose form has a lot of protection so the effect of the amulet would be, once you factor the damage reduction percent, approximatively regenerating you 1.6HP per second (well every 30sec for 48~ HP)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

You can't drain hunger if it's already going to be zero when you return, life giving amulet might have no effect or would be a source of constant healing based on whether the wereform meter is read as 0 hunger or full hunger. 

Chilled would have limited but not no uses, it can be used during summer to avoid overheating as a wereform since you can't craft or use items, as well as a way to freeze enemies for those previously mentioned reasons.

Nightmare amulet could be used to induce insanity while in Moose form to farm nightmare creatures without using weapon or armor durability. Dangerous use and niche, but still a use!

Construction amulet would be useless but Lazy Forager is FAR from useless. He can't access the inventory but it's still there and the Lazy Forager would give Woodie a means of being able to "pick up" items while in wereform. This application is most probably useful for gathering logs as beaver and spider drops as moose in my experience.

Magi would be useful for the 20% speed for all forms but most notably Moose since it would reverse his speed penalty making him more viable in everyday fighting. Also the Magi has a full day of use from 100%, and wereforms only last around 4 minutes. Unless you wait out an entire full moon + a half day worth of charge you wouldn't wear it out unless it was already depleted, in which case skill issue.


There are uses, it wouldn't be super game changing but that's the point. It gives the wereforms a much needed little boost by making gathering and fighting easier without giving them access to something no other character has. The Lazy Forager being refuelable is what warranted this discussion because now there are atleast 2 amulets that would be nice additions to the wereforms tasks.

which means that the forms can be improved in other way rather than adding super niche uses with the ability to wear amulets

edit: and the only good amulet for them basically gives speed which goes against the point of moose form penalty

[MadMatt]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

which means that the forms can be improved in other way rather than adding super niche uses with the ability to wear amulets

It's debatable if the forms should be changed, but allowing forms to wear amulets would not hurt at all and give more options even if they are niche. I just want amulets because there's virtually no drawback and it's interesting. Giving moose more damage or beaver less chops doesn't appeal to me so that's not my fight here. 
Also because the lazy forager being refuelable is what made me start this topic, I don't want to suggest another woodie rework when I just want my damn amulet beaver 

[maxwell_winters]

31 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

snip

So, free healing, constant freezing, dealing with 3 terrorbeaks from nightmare amulet with speed debuff. No effect from deconstruction amulet. Lazy Forager wouldn't make sense imo. How would you manage what gets into the inventory if you can't see it? 

Mag would be cool but I think Woody should just craft updated idols with Lunar Magic that would give the forms higher speed. 

[MadMatt]

1 hour ago, maxwell_winters said:

So, free healing, constant freezing, dealing with 3 terrorbeaks from nightmare amulet with speed debuff. No effect from deconstruction amulet. Lazy Forager wouldn't make sense imo. How would you manage what gets into the inventory if you can't see it? 

Mag would be cool but I think Woody should just craft updated idols with Lunar Magic that would give the forms higher speed. 

You can manage inventory by having 1 of the item you want in every slot. For beaver this would be 1 log in each inventory slot except for 1 food so you don't starve. Having more idols and incorporating lunar magic would be cool but why not have both? This is not an either/or situation unless this 100% theoretical buff to wereforms makes having 20% speed too strong. 

EDIT: Also the construction amulet does have a use as a durability free way to off-set the wereform sanity drain. Again, a small change but regardless EVERY SINGLE amulet has a use of some sort. I don't understand why there's so much push back in favor of an unrelated woodie rework, this is about the beta and it's recent change to lazy forager.

[MadMatt]

6 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

edit: and the only good amulet for them basically gives speed which goes against the point of moose form penalty

After trying out the mod I wanted to come back to this and clarify that the magi is not the only good amulet. The forager is a literal god-send and the nightmare amulet was very effective in farming nightmare fuel safely since the amulet has less charge than a full weremeter, even when the RNG was bad and it dipped low I could always just run and charge away from the terrorbeaks to detransform. The life-giving amulet is also just another method to heal while transformed, which is a HUGE boon if true. However I don't care about any of the other amulets as much as the lazy forager, even if only the lazy forager was wearable I would be more than satisfied and the biggest reason for why I made this topic. At WORST it's a QoL update for woodie, at best it makes Moose more attractive for fighting AND is a QoL update.

What do you mean it goes against the moose form penalty? If Klei intended for the stats of the wereforms to be absolutely unchangeable then it wouldn't be affected by roads either. Moose having 10% speed is not something that should be hung up over, most people seem to agree that the forms should be buffed via armor, damage, health, etc. so allowing Moose to access something everyone else can definitely does not go against the point of it, considering it still would take effect anyways.

[Lil K]

8 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if i could choose i would prefer a direct buff on the forms to make them viable in mid and late instead of amulets

like increase hp and damage for moose

Yesssss, Klei could add something to boost the forms late game, faster goose, stronger or healing moose.

[dois raios]

not gonna lie, weremoose needs a buff, 90% protection is good, but it is only it, you have 0,9x speed multiplier, deals less damage than a ham bat and have small AoE damage, and the most important thing, you CANT stop fighting, you must be fighting all the time to stay as weremoose, i think it would need more time to the meter goes down, it is so fast.

in my opinion, moose doesnt need a speed modifier, and he could have a passive healing over time (or make weremoose the only transformation able to eat), because it is so bad having to quit a fight to destransform, heal and transform again (and receive damage to transform).

[Owlrust]

9 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if i could choose i would prefer a direct buff on the forms to make them viable in mid and late instead of amulets

like increase hp and damage for moose

I still think it'd be pretty cool if Weremoose got extra health that was (percentage-wise) scaled to Woodie's. Would help give Weremoose some longevity in a fight without being straight up free.

IE: If the max health of Weremoose we're 400 (150 for Woodie), then 200 would be Woodie's 75.

[flamboyant wolf]

7 hours ago, Owlrust said:

I still think it'd be pretty cool if Weremoose got extra health that was (percentage-wise) scaled to Woodie's. Would help give Weremoose some longevity in a fight without being straight up free.

IE: If the max health of Weremoose we're 400 (150 for Woodie), then 200 would be Woodie's 75.

I like this idea a lot. 

[Notecja]

As once I mentioned - Woodie is one of few reworked characters that suffers from lack of progression in game (only Willow doesn't progress as well, but at least she doesn't regress in lategame, Winona kinda shines in lategame, even if she doesn't progress, her perks simply works better). His perks are available since 1 day of playing, but the further in game the less appealing/revelant these become, and at some point you need to change character or welcome inevitable suffering (every night transformations). Allowing him to use amulets during transformations would at least give him some progression towards mid game.

[ShadowDuelist]

I think being actively exposed to full moons should outright improve each wereform, besides just drain the meter slightly slower like they do now. And it can even be made fairly strong.
EG: 20% faster movement speed ontop of each corresponding wereform speed, slow and steady health regen (like one of WX's regeneration implant is more than enough) waterproofing, etc.

- Why?

• On one hand the early game's natural full moons happen every 20 days and beyond the winter one, most don't really last long. So it's not like you can make much use of the enhanced powers other than a short boost for a couple of minutes every 2 and a half hours, which would work more like a well timed extra punch.
• If a Wickerbottom decides to torture you with the full moon book, you actually get something good out of it.
• When the moonstorm cycle starts, instead of pure painful gameplay as it is now, you will both be at your most powerful and your weakest state.
  On one hand you suffer from all that implies being in a wereform, but on the other hand the wereforms themselves "could" be viable to exist in the late game, specially if paired with OP's idea of amulet usage, jellybeans availability and maybe Warly's recipes.

The effects should stop as soon as you stop being exposed to full moon, even if you are still transformed. You will never get the extra perks in caves (since no full moon down there). WX regeneration is fairly slow and even if it allows you to take some damage, it won't make you immortal (you can easily test it out yourself) it will just allow the wereforms to be used for longer even if you take some damage.
The goose is quickly outclassed by most transport means so getting some extra speed in the late game to keep it up useful would be essential, The Weremoose's slow speed is what makes it so much inferior to fighting in human form with a cane with any weapon, and if the beaver moved faster from harvest point to harvest point, paired with a lazy forager, it could still be viable for late game gathering.
I think it would be balanced and self limited, IMO.

[MadMatt]

On 10/20/2022 at 11:15 AM, ShadowDuelist said:

I think being actively exposed to full moons should outright improve each wereform, besides just drain the meter slightly slower like they do now. And it can even be made fairly strong.

I didn't know how to feel about this idea at first but i'm in love now that i've dwelled on it. Despite Woodie being one of, if not the only survivor who is directly affected by the full moon, you really don't care about it. It's such a rare event, except for moonstorms which serves as just an annoyance rather than anything else so it'd be really cool if fighting a boss, gathering resources, or exploration would be boosted by it enough to warrant timing transformations with the moon cycle. Right now it just serves as extending the use of an already dirt cheap item, giving the full moon more consequences to consider would be super cool! Especially since adding something like lunar idols/transformations would be quite the undertaking, this would be a simple but effective compromise