Overcoming uselessness

[Escripid]

I was looking at the new Wickerbottom books and got interested when I saw a book called 'Overcome Arachnophobia'. Well, that is, until I saw what it actually does...

I've found it difficult to find real use cases for a slow mechanic in a game where almost all combat is made using melee weapons and almost every enemy needs to stop moving to attack. It also doesn' t seem to last long enough to be integrated in some kind of trap/farm.

As of now the only nice use for this book (that i've found) is helping Walter's slingshot be more viable, but even that...

I wonder what was the idea behind the creation of this book.

With that said, I would like to hear other people's opinion on this book and it's possible use cases. 

Always open to have my mind changed.

P.S: Also just saw in wiki that spiders get slowed too, is it true? Why would a spider get stuck in a web? Doesn't make much sense IMO. 

Edit: It would be nice if the cast time for OA were lowered and slowed creatures attack speed. 

[Ohan]

Its nice against hound waves away from base, rooks, ewecus (esp on beef), mctusk kinda and varg with a couple of grumble bees. It works on nightmares too. U can also use it to catch aggro from koalas and goats if u have no other way of doing it. 

I think it would be nice against toadstool too to slow down its crawl back to in range of its hole in order to cast its spells but i havent tried this yet myself. A pond could potentially do the same thing but still. 

It might also help kiting incoming splumonkey death trains if u can cast it in time.

unfortunately it does not work against celestial champion phase 1 roll or phase 2 spin attack. Last time i checked it also does not slow down Klaus lunge sadly.. 

Because its a pretty understated effect I would love to see its sanity cost halved to 17 so it can be used more freely. 

Several of its use cases overlap with Sleepy Time stories (catching fleeing mobs). If the web was cheaper to cast it could more comfortably exist next to STS.

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P.S: Also just saw in wiki that spiders get slowed too, is it true? Why would a spider get stuck in a web? Doesn't make much sense IMO.

One spider’s web can be a trap for a different kind of spider. Webs irl r made of sticky and non sticky strands, the weaver knows which one is which and so can avoid the sticky ones. 
So the reason why spiders get stuck in Wicker's web is because its presumably woven differently to theirs. which makes sense since shes not an actual spider like them. 

[Escripid]

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

Its nice against hound waves away from base, rooks, ewecus (esp on beef), mctusk kinda and varg with a couple of grumble bees. It works on nightmares too. U can also use it to catch aggro from koalas and goats if u have no other way of doing it. 

I think it would be nice against toadstool too to slow down its crawl back to in range of its hole in order to cast its spells but i havent tried this yet myself. A pond could potentially do the same thing but still. 

It might also help kiting incoming splumonkey death trains if u can cast it in time.

unfortunately it does not work against celestial champion phase 1 roll or phase 2 spin attack. Last time i checked it also does not slow down Klaus lunge sadly.. 

Because its a pretty understated effect I would love to see its sanity cost halved to 17 so it can be used more freely. 

Several of its use cases overlap with Sleepy Time stories (catching fleeing mobs). If the web was cheaper to cast it could more comfortable exist next to STS.

One spider’s web can be a trap for a different kind of spider. Webs irl r made of sticky and non sticky strands, the weaver knows which one is which and so can avoid the sticky ones. 
So the reason why spiders get stuck in Wicker's web is because its presumably woven differently to theirs. which makes sense since shes not an actual spider like them. 

I can see it being handy sometimes to fend of enemies, but I think in that case it would better if it slowed their attack speed too (because of the sticky nature of webs).

As you pointed, Sleepy Times Stories seem to do a better job, so you're suggestions make sense (at least the casting time being reduced). 

Regarding the spiders getting stuck in webs I read that they can get stuck in webs, but it's seems to be very rare as a spider's anatomy allow them to easily break off and even not get caught in the first place (their legs are very adapted to webby environments). 

Even considering what you've said, I think the book, being made from silk obtained from spiders from the Constant, would teach Wicker how to make the same type of webs, meaning that it shouldn't affect them. 

[Cheggf]

Some mobs wake in groups so sts doesn't help but arachnophobia does.

[Frosty_Mentos]

How well does it work on speedy bosses? Bee queen, Celestial champion, fuelweaver... Those kinds.

[Fill-Lips]

7 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

How well does it work on speedy bosses? Bee queen, Celestial champion, fuelweaver... Those kinds.

Doesn't work on flying bosses, CC's attacks that you worry about override the slowdown, and CC flys at phase 3...

FW might be a good case to use OA when the woven come out, although the sanity management may be a bit too much.

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 minute ago, Fill-Lips said:

Doesn't work on flying bosses, CC's attacks that you worry about override the slowdown, and CC flys at phase 3...

FW might be a good case to use OA when the woven come out, although the sanity management may be a bit too much.

Sanity management isn't all that much and those webs last very long time. Banana shakes and bee queen helm usually would do the best for those fights. Maybe woven shadows would take forever to get to him, it might make good combat strategy. But hey, why combat if you can just cheese it with some houndiuses and lureplants :shrug:

Otherwise I guess that book simply sucks. There's not a lot of combat variety to do in that game, unless Klei decides to do a combat overhaul.

[Cheggf]

7 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Otherwise I guess that book simply sucks.

I agree. Other than ancient fuelweaver, cowardly enemies like koalefants and krampii, groups of enemies like hounds, monkeys, and shadows (making it potentially useful in every fight) the book is useless. How many use cases do her other books have, again?

[Porkus]

55 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I agree. Other than ancient fuelweaver, cowardly enemies like koalefants and krampii, groups of enemies like hounds, monkeys, and shadows (making it potentially useful in every fight) the book is useless. How many use cases do her other books have, again?

I think its bad for Ancient Fuelweaver, his moving speed is actually good so you can lure him around the arena away from woven shadows.

On 8/22/2022 at 12:28 PM, Cheggf said:

Some mobs wake in groups so sts doesn't help but arachnophobia does.

with such a long cast time I can't imagine it being good to slow down hoards unless you already have enough speed to distance yourself from them

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Third Porkus said:

with such a long cast time I can't imagine it being good to slow down hoards unless you already have enough speed to distance yourself from them

You are imagining and I am doing. I have used it successfully against hounds, vargs, splumonkeys, shadows. It doesn't help if you are currently in the middle of a pack, but none of her books would. It's a less potent effect than Sleepytime Stories, but one that persists after attacking them once, can affect sleep immune mobs, and can affect mobs that wake in groups.

[Primalflower]

On 8/22/2022 at 7:36 AM, Ohan said:

Its nice against hound waves away from base

this is my favorite use for it. Overcoming arachnophobia on its own is very nice for helping control hound waves, especially when varglets come around, even besides the obvious on tentacles synergy. Its not like, the most useful book ever, but its definitely a fun wickerbottom combat strategy for a situation that comes up pretty often if you don't turn it off in world settings.

Also, its definitely saved my butt a bunch of times when handlding splumonkeys and their shadow form.

[Dextops]

A lot of wicker books could use some buffs, but those other books have some kind of good use, i don't see that with overcoming arachnophobia and i have no idea why the concept was added in the first place, really wish it froze enemies instead, even if it came at the cost of a more expensive recipe.

On 8/24/2022 at 1:45 PM, Cheggf said:

koalefants and krampii, groups of enemies like hounds, monkeys, and shadows (making it potentially useful in every fight) the book is useless.

what use is exactly being used here on those enemies? I really wanna know if this book has some actually really good use.

[Cheggf]

58 minutes ago, Dextops said:

what use is exactly being used here on those enemies? I really wanna know if this book has some actually really good use.

Cowardly enemies can be caught, groups of enemies can be faught much easier because they're slow. For example, normally hounds are completely desynced from each other because they randomly bark and it messes their attack intervals. If they're very slow then either they are easy to sync up like depths worms or they are far enough away that they're too slow to interrupt your attacks on a different hound. You still have to fight them, but it makes the fight a lot easier.

[Dextops]

18 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Cowardly enemies can be caught,

i can see the other point albeit i think it's a bit niche but i don't see this one at all. Boomerangs exist and overcoming arachnophobia requires a bookshelf 

[Evelo]

On 8/24/2022 at 10:45 AM, Cheggf said:

I agree. Other than ancient fuelweaver, cowardly enemies like koalefants and krampii, groups of enemies like hounds, monkeys, and shadows (making it potentially useful in every fight) the book is useless. How many use cases do her other books have, again?

It works against shadows?!

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Primalflower said:

? Its not like, attached to a bookshelf. You can take the books off, and overcoming arachnophobia has 5 uses, so 4 until the next would delete it, but also its not an expensive book, either. Overcoming arachnophobia to make a koalephant less cumbersome for an early game wickerbottom to catch makes sense as a use case to me.

how does this counter anything i said? boomerang is still infinitely cheaper, i said bookshelf as in it requires a station that's harder to get. and even then running the koalaphant into the edge is cheaper than both of these. It really seems like you're just trying to bloat the use count, i really want some changes out of it cause for me it just seems very niche and i'd like to see it and various other wicker books get some tweaks.

[ShadowDuelist]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:31 AM, Escripid said:

Also just saw in wiki that spiders get slowed too, is it true? Why would a spider get stuck in a web? Doesn't make much sense IMO.

The devs said on a stream that it's because its a magical effect that resembles webbing, not real webbing. That is why Webber doesn't have speed perks over it. They did consider giving it the same properties as with normal webbing, apparently (spiders not being slowed and Webber getting speed boost, like in normal web) but they decided against it by considering the nature of the book.

That said, the "arachnophobia" is a good book to give you more time to kite (or outright escape) nightmare creatures, specially when you overcast books.
Also if you foresee that a lot of shadow monkeys will chase you, you can set webbing, lure all of them to follow you, then run through the webbing field so they get slowed enough to give you time for one more casting, and sleep them with STS all at once. Once they are  all clumped together and asleep you can either leave them alone and move freely on their space, blow them up, tentacle them, etc.
As other mentioned it's also decent for hound waves, but I wouldn't rely on this book for that (on tentacles is a lot better).

Although I agree that considering the options, its still a bit expensive for what it does, and I support lowering the sanity cost of using it a bit. But it's not really a "bad" book, just not as good as the others.

[Porkus]

17 minutes ago, Dextops said:

how does this counter anything i said? boomerang is still infinitely cheaper, i said bookshelf as in it requires a station that's harder to get. and even then running the koalaphant into the edge is cheaper than both of these. It really seems like you're just trying to bloat the use count, i really want some changes out of it cause for me it just seems very niche and i'd like to see it and various other wicker books get some tweaks.

You deserve the title of Meta Snob, semi semi semi semi semi semi semi semi semi semi semi meta snob no longer

[Cheggf]

9 hours ago, Dextops said:

i can see the other point albeit i think it's a bit niche but i don't see this one at all. Boomerangs exist and overcoming arachnophobia requires a bookshelf 

If I'm carrying around OA for hounds, monkeys, and shadows why would I also want to be carrying around a boomerang? If your goal is exclusively to do nothing except aggro cowardly enemies then a boomerang is cheaper, but a boomerang isn't gonna do anything to help you against threats.

[Dextops]

7 hours ago, Cheggf said:

If I'm carrying around OA for hounds, monkeys, and shadows why would I also want to be carrying around a boomerang? If your goal is exclusively to do nothing except aggro cowardly enemies then a boomerang is cheaper, but a boomerang isn't gonna do anything to help you against threats.

Now that I’m thinking about it, aren’t there also better ways to deal with hounds especially since they’ve been nerfed. The only time I’d see having trouble syncing kites is late game where you can switch to Winona for catapults or any other way of dealing with them. For splemunkeys idk why’d you ever fight them in the first place and for nightmare creatures enough never spawn enough to it be to be useful unless you’re in ruins during the nightmare phase and are dead set on killing them which is extremely situational, so now I’m back realizing this book just seems to have extremely niche uses and I think it deserves a massive buff. (Like other wicker books)

[Maxposting]

3 hours ago, Dextops said:

For splemunkeys idk why’d you ever fight them in the first place 

they drop everything i ever need aside from thulecite.

[Cassielu]

On 8/25/2022 at 2:40 AM, Third Porkus said:

I think its bad for Ancient Fuelweaver, his moving speed is actually good so you can lure him around the arena away from woven shadows.

Woven Shadows are the ones to be slowed, so that you can keep AF away from them more easily

[robesssssssssss]

ls pvp 

[IceTime]

Maybe I just don't have a better idea

[Ohan]

Just found out its really nice for killing non enraged moslings, especially at night while the M/Goose is sleeping.

chase them into the web and move in circles around it so it stays inside the web as ur hitting it = easy kills. i think i managed to kill 4-5 moslings before the web went away. 

It worked during the day too but with Goose awake it becomes a lot more tricky and takes more time since u have to kite around her.