What if Lunar Grimoire required Moon Caller's Staff?

[Spirit Glow]

Thoughts on why or why not?

[xhyom]

I'm not against it, but as this would basically be a nerf to the two free Archives gems I believe a small decrease in cost would be ideal. Yellow moonlens with two moon butterflies is the way 

[h2mk]

replace the awesome gem with the boring gem

[maxwell_winters]

I don't really mind. Either this or making the archive gems unremovable. The latter might be the better option because griefers that read this forum probably got an idea to steal the irri gems anyway since a lot of players are so concerned about them.

 

[goatt]

I like it much better than iridescent gems.

 

And it makes sense thematically as it’s called “moon caller’s staff”.

[Arcwell]

It would still be prohibitively expensive and I don't think that's a good thing for the game. I for one am seriously demotivated at the prospect of needing to craft 3 star caller's staves and perform the moon caller event 3 times.

"But you don't need 3": Tell that to any Wickerbottom. All of Wickerbottom's books with the sole exception of Lunar Grimoire have relatively easy ingredients because you're expected to make copies of them. It's not like they don't still have downsides. To maintain Lunar Grimoire's effect, you'd need at least 2 books in a bookshelf at all times, with a 3rd if you want to hold one in your inventory.

Should it be more expensive than other books? Sure. Should it be THIS much more expensive than every other book? No.

I think a much better solution would be to require either Glommer's flower/wings or an astral detector. This would not only prevent the grindfest of making 3 books, but it would still be gated behind day progression. They both also by definition require you to have had a natural full moon already.

[Joroc]

...Or finally a use for gloomers flower and wings 

[maxwell_winters]

18 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

"But you don't need 3": Tell that to any Wickerbottom. All of Wickerbottom's books with the sole exception of Lunar Grimoire have relatively easy ingredients because you're expected to make copies of them. It's not like they don't still have downsides. To maintain Lunar Grimoire's effect, you'd need at least 2 books in a bookshelf at all times, with a 3rd if you want to hold one in your inventory.

React to this post with Potato Cup if Klei holds you at gunpoint forcing you to make multiple copies of books whenever you play Wickerbottom. 

[Arcwell]

Just now, maxwell_winters said:

React to this post with Potato Cup if Klei holds you at gunpoint forcing you to make multiple copies of books whenever you play Wickerbottom. 

My point is: asking a Wickerbottom not to make multiple copies of books is like asking them not to play Wickerbottom.

 

[Ohan]

38 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

I think a much better solution would be to require either Glommer's flower/wings or an astral detector.

These or a distilled knowledge is the way to go imo. AD and DK would be my fav options for “lore/immersion” reasons. An opal or a mooncaller for each book is an unnecessarily huge cost and just feels janky.

Actually locking it behind Archives activation is the most interesting option instead of making the material cost of each book incredibly grindy. 

[maxwell_winters]

14 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

My point is: asking a Wickerbottom not to make multiple copies of books is like asking them not to play Wickerbottom.

Ok, hear me out. The Lunar Grimoire is an exception because there's no point to use it more than once a day. The game doesn't even allow you to read it when the full moon is already on. 

And why do you need the full moon every night? Just because an item exists, it doesn't mean that you have to use it as efficiently as possible. There is absolutely no reason to summon the full moon on every night. Some nights are 30 second long, during other nights you're in the caves, some nights you just spend at your base, etc. 

[Arcwell]

Just now, maxwell_winters said:

Ok, hear me out. The Lunar Grimoire is an exception because there's no point to use it more than once a day.

Yes, and you need at least 2 if you want to use it once per day.

1 minute ago, maxwell_winters said:

And why do you need the full moon every night?

You don't. You also don't need to play DST in the first place. It's fun and I enjoy it.

2 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

There is absolutely no reason to summon the full moon on every night.

Then limit it to once per 2 days if that's really the issue. I don't think it's the issue. I personally like using lunar grimoire every night solely for the light effect. It's extremely inefficient, costing 50 sanity per day, but I enjoy the ability to see the whole screen at night without a moggle overlay. 

5 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

Some nights are 30 second long, during other nights you're in the caves, some nights you just spend at your base, etc. 

You know these are arguments for Lunar Grimoire not having as expensive a price as it does, right?

[ADM]

20 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

My point is: asking a Wickerbottom not to make multiple copies of books is like asking them not to play Wickerbottom.

To me it's still an issue due to the library slow auto-repair thing being the only way to have them ready again in X days, I'm doing fine with a single grimoire so far since I'm not using it every single day (and with the stock of Moon Caller Staff I've got from a single ruin clearing session I could make more no problem especially after obtaining the first) but I was looking forward since the start to have a faster, player involved method to have them ready more often so a single book would be quite all you need for the most.
That was my first topic done on the beta and I think today it only has more benefits due to the Iridescent Gem thing which is to me anyway a much cooler road to go by if books have a more exiting process to obtain them like this one, despite it's surely gonna be exclusive to this book only (and I'd almost dare to say unfortunately but welp )

Pretty sure that won't happen but to me with this sort of direction the Lunar Grimoire took it's all coming together for how I idealise it. ^^

[maxwell_winters]

12 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

You don't. You also don't need to play DST in the first place. 

End of discussion. 

[Cheggf]

What part of the book is so strong it should have an entire staff as an ingredient? It's weaker than the base books she had before the rework, and those cost things like seeds. 

[Faintly Macabre]

I'm actually against this, because I think being able to rush the book by using the gems from the archive was honestly the only thing making this ingredient reasonable.

The only reason to do this is to make that impossible, and the biggest reason people seem to have a problem with using the gems from the archive is griefing, which I think is bunk. Stealing the gems from the archive was actually more debilitating before than it is with the existence of this book; now if somebody does it and there's a Wicker around, you don't have to go through two or three moon cycles to recover them all.

[Arcwell]

15 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

I'm actually against this, because I think being able to rush the book by using the gems from the archive was honestly the only thing making this ingredient reasonable.

The only reason to do this is to make that impossible, and the biggest reason people seem to have a problem with using the gems from the archive is griefing, which I think is bunk. Stealing the gems from the archive was actually more debilitating before than it is with the existence of this book; now if somebody does it and there's a Wicker around, you don't have to go through two or three moon cycles to recover them all.

Agreed with your assessment, just wanna add 1 thing: iridescent gem + archives is problematic disregarding griefing because it doesn't add any challenge to acquiring the book, just needless grind after the fact. The flipside is, as you said, removing the ability to do this (as was suggested via making the gems unpickable or requiring a staff instead) makes crafting it unreasonable. I don't think there's any good scenario where iridescent gem or moon caller's staff are in the recipe.

[maxwell_winters]

3 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

The only reason to do this is to make that impossible, and the biggest reason people seem to have a problem with using the gems from the archive is griefing, which I think is bunk. Stealing the gems from the archive was actually more debilitating before than it is with the existence of this book; now if somebody does it and there's a Wicker around, you don't have to go through two or three moon cycles to recover them all.

I agree that this thing is blown out of proportion. If we talk about intentional griefing, then the irri gem being a crafting ingredient doesn't change a thing. Any character can pick the gems and do way worse things to them (I don't wanna give ideas to griefers). If Wicker makes a book with it: 1) you would at least know where it is and can deconstruct it if necessary, 2) she can't read it more than once a day, so you have time to intercept it being wasted. 

[Jaisac HF]

I am against it, I think as with most of Wiker books it should be usable as soon as it can be useful for farming.

maybe keep the ingredients from the moon island and trade the gem for something of the same difficulty to obtain as the items of the island

[Antynomity]

It got nerfed enough, give it up please. 

[dois raios]

i think is a good idea, it will prevent people from stealing the iridescent gems from archives (not really prevent, but they will not have an incentive to do so, but they can still stole just to see the chaos in the future XD) and you will have to rush ruins to get this book and do the moon stone event, since people here really dont like the idea of being able to have this book on day 2 (even tho you are not able anymore to get it on day 2 lol ), this is a very good way to get this book away from players that want to spam infinite full moon every night and steal the iridescent gem at the same time, i really liked your suggestion.