Woodie and the moon book

[Mysterious box]

So this has been a very heated topic but I feel like I should propose some solutions to the issue the moon book brings up even though I'd still like Walter tweaks I feel this needs higher priority for the multiplayer experience of dst.

So my ideas for moon book changes mostly aren't anything that haven't been mentioned by others.  First the moon book should not change the moon cycle and on the day and night of the new moon the book should fail to make changes on the world this would fix a major issue I have with the book as doing this keeps the shadow pieces from being a majority vote scenario I don't know of any negative effects this would bring so I see no reason to make players have to convince people to go multiple days without a full moon for you to do a event most of the server may not care about at the time.

Now this part that would be a more involved change Woodie I proposed changing how the moon effects him and how his perks fuction to better suit the new normal Wickerbottom imposes on to the world.

My pitch is

-Woodie should no longer lose hunger from the transformation but lose hunger 20 percent faster

-Woodie should have access his inventory use food and be able to pick items up but not equip them in his were form I feel this is more reasonable than ever since transformations are completely out of his controll even in the early game now

-Woodie should regain his weather immunity he used to have in consideration of his lack of control and how we've eased up overall on weather immunity

Personally even if things aren't resolved how I pitched them at the very least I feel Woodie's issue needs to be addressed before that book is allowed to go to the live servers.

[Cheggf]

Instead of doing something to address the issue of him transforming all the time you're just dumbing his transformations down and making them less unique. 

[Mysterious box]

38 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Instead of doing something to address the issue of him transforming all the time you're just dumbing his transformations down and making them less unique. 

I mean weather immunity was a original carry over from the Were beaver which got removed in Woodie's refresh. Telling a player to lose all their hunger every night unless you go to caves which may not exist in that world or hide in a bush assuming your able to at the time of the moon isn't a fair or fun downside when your at the mercy of another player every night and same goes for being told you can't use your inventory at night. I would agree that overall this makes him less unique but honestly short of removing his full moon downside completely or tampering with how Wickerbottom's book works I don't really know what else you could realistically do without overly hindering one character to benefit another do you have any ideas?

[goblinball]

Or you could just give him an item which prevents him from transforming, which is what everyone else has been asking for.

[Mysterious box]

Yea that does work I just didn't want to force him to carry a additional item purely due to the actions of other players.

[goatt]

Local full moon, instead of global full moon…

Local full moon, instead of global full moon…

Local full moon, instead of global full moon…

[Ohan]

Throughout this refresh people have acted like trolls and griefers are the majority of dst players when thats not the case.

In my experience the big majority of players play in pubs to co-operate with others. 

The issue of daily woodie transforming should be centered on lunar storms which are 100% unavoidable if you want to progress in the game and not on the grimoire which is a non existent issue if ur playing without a wickerbottom or solo.

And even when ur playing with a wickerbottom why is it always assumed the wick is impossible to reason with and endless full moons are guaranteed to be a thing? Spending 50 sanity nightly and being tied to the bookcase for endless full moons so people dont have to refuel their lanterns is made out to be a much more fun and worthwhile activity than it is lol. 

i cant imagine doing that even if everyone on the server wanted me to, let alone forcing it upon a sever with a woodie in it. In the latter scenario whats stopping anyone from starting a vote kick against me? 

For the events/projects that require a full moon and the majority of the server wants the grimoire, any woodie will have to do what they have to do during lunar storms and stand still for 40 seconds until the curse wears off. You lose ur hunger and like 9 sanity. 

Nothing that cant be fixed by a single Hort usage near some crops. 

Everyone is always quick to sound the alarm about the potential griefing but ive yet to see anyone mention the synergy between the grimoire and Woodie.

The timing of the full moon hit can be used by woodies to reset and lengthen their weremeter, making exploring the oceans much easier or clearing a spider quarry as moose or chopping down a forest as beaver without needing to pause to eat more totems in between. 

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Yea that does work I just didn't want to force him to carry a additional item purely due to the actions of other players.

What about the lunar storms though? Thats the bigger issue for solo woodies or any woodie whos not in a server with a wickerbottom. 

I agree that the wereforms shouldnt be dumbed down too much, it would take away from the fun/unique and challenge of using them, especially the eating part. 

Increased hunger drain instead of a full reset/emptying definitely sounds reasonable though. 

i also think Woodie’s hp should be increased to 175 as a Moose qol buff. and moose should not be slowed by any storms. The EotS nerf in this regard ruined the possibility to fight Antlion as moose. 

———

Wickerbottom and Woodie have great synergy like i recently mentioned in the “survivor combo” thread, and even lore wise since it was Wickerbottom who helped Woodie unlock his new wereforms. But its all being overshadowed by doomer thinking about what trolls could do. 

the lunar storms issue should be eased to make woodie’s life less annoying, this would also help in multiplayer settings with a wicker. And lorewise it could very well involve Wickerbottom again too, in the construction of a trinket or whatever. 

Or very simply make it so full moons after the first do not trigger the auto transform but DO reset the weremeter to retain the synergy. 

this would reset when the chained full moons stop. Easy! 

[Wonz]

Woodie should be able to sense full moon coming if wicker used the book so he has a chance to hide his head and hand item in inventory. But if he could pick up things from the ground thanks to access to inventory it would be nice. Giving moose ability to eat mid fight would be awesome since he actually sucks at fighting something strong. The movement speed penalty isn't really adding to enjoyment. And maybe eating something would also prevent the wereness from depleting at increased speed, sometimes bosses just run around like dragonfly not letting you stuff a hit to stay transformed.

[Mysterious box]

4 hours ago, Ohan said:

Throughout this refresh people have acted like trolls and griefers are the majority of dst players when thats not the case.

In my experience the big majority of players play in pubs to co-operate with others. 

The issue of daily woodie transforming should be centered on lunar storms which are 100% unavoidable if you want to progress in the game and not on the grimoire which is a non existent issue if ur playing without a wickerbottom or solo.

And even when ur playing with a wickerbottom why is it always assumed the wick is impossible to reason with and endless full moons are guaranteed to be a thing? Spending 50 sanity nightly and being tied to the bookcase for endless full moons so people dont have to refuel their lanterns is made out to be a much more fun and worthwhile activity than it is lol. 

i cant imagine doing that even if everyone on the server wanted me to, let alone forcing it upon a sever with a woodie in it. In the latter scenario whats stopping anyone from starting a vote kick against me? 

For the events/projects that require a full moon and the majority of the server wants the grimoire, any woodie will have to do what they have to do during lunar storms and stand still for 40 seconds until the curse wears off. You lose ur hunger and like 9 sanity. 

Nothing that cant be fixed by a single Hort usage near some crops. 

Everyone is always quick to sound the alarm about the potential griefing but ive yet to see anyone mention the synergy between the grimoire and Woodie.

The timing of the full moon hit can be used by woodies to reset and lengthen their weremeter, making exploring the oceans much easier or clearing a spider quarry as moose or chopping down a forest as beaver without needing to pause to eat more totems in between. 

What about the lunar storms though? Thats the bigger issue for solo woodies or any woodie whos not in a server with a wickerbottom. 

I agree that the wereforms shouldnt be dumbed down too much, it would take away from the fun/unique and challenge of using them, especially the eating part. 

Increased hunger drain instead of a full reset/emptying definitely sounds reasonable though. 

i also think Woodie’s hp should be increased to 175 as a Moose qol buff. and moose should not be slowed by any storms. The EotS nerf in this regard ruined the possibility to fight Antlion as moose. 

———

Wickerbottom and Woodie have great synergy like i recently mentioned in the “survivor combo” thread, and even lore wise since it was Wickerbottom who helped Woodie unlock his new wereforms. But its all being overshadowed by doomer thinking about what trolls could do. 

the lunar storms issue should be eased to make woodie’s life less annoying, this would also help in multiplayer settings with a wicker. And lorewise it could very well involve Wickerbottom again too, in the construction of a trinket or whatever. 

Or very simply make it so full moons after the first do not trigger the auto transform but DO reset the weremeter to retain the synergy. 

this would reset when the chained full moons stop. Easy! 

While I understand where you coming from I feel like there's a misconception that keeps being pushed and it's that anyone who would inconvenience will always be doing it to grief or troll and will always have malicious intent just because they use the book won't mean they're doing it to intentionally harm others the argument isn't on then basis that everyone is a griefer but that Woodie will not and should not have to he everyone's consideration. Synergy is fine but goes out the window when it can potientally cause harm vs minor benefits.

4 hours ago, Ohan said:

Or very simply make it so full moons after the first do not trigger the auto transform but DO reset the weremeter to retain the synergy. 

Even though this would conflict with the lore and the loading screen I feel like this is the best solution.

4 hours ago, Ohan said:

What about the lunar storms though? Thats the bigger issue for solo woodies or any woodie whos not in a server with a wickerbottom. 

I've said myself that the lunar storm thing is and was still a issue the only real reason it's been left alone so long is the sheer amount of time it's time gated behind meaning most players will never experience it which is probably also why most people despite agreeing it needs to change didn't keep it high priority this on the other hand is something most people will experience from here on out.

[maeslay]

Can we not completely change woodies character just because there’s a possibility that he’s in the same server as wicker and that that wicker decides to be a troll? It’s like a minor issue at worst come on just add some dialogue to warn woodie of the incoming moon cycle change and tadahh there’s no problems anymore. Why do we need to severely worsen (imo) his mechanics just because of the possibility of bad actors trolling as wicker

[Cheggf]

If it's such an issue for Woodie why not make him simply not transform from the full moon if he's transformed or attempted to in the past 10 minutes? He seems to be getting more control over his powers since he can freely enter them with idols so I think if he had just transformed and the moon tried to make him do it again he could have a little animation where he resists the transformation and says something like "Hold it together, Woodie...". He would be identical to how he is now in every situation except the full moon spam (and I guess also if you ate an idol right before a full moon) and it'd turn the full moon spam into him just holding still for 2 seconds every night (unless he skipped a moon by being underground or something).

[Gashzer]

Lucy should shout out abuse about wickerbottom if the book is used in the server 

[maeslay]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

If it's such an issue for Woodie why not make him simply not transform from the full moon if he's transformed or attempted to in the past 10 minutes? 

honestly? i cant speak for everyone that mains woodie but i think it should just be kept as is. its really not that as big of an Issue as everyone's making it out to be, if anything it can be pretty fun, my only problem with it (personally) is that in pubs u might not know when the books going to be used and therefor be unprepared n not have food for after transforming. My solution to this would probably be some sort of global warning that tells either woodie or everyone in the server that wicker's used the book (maybe lucy starts yellibng at you that the moons phases have changed or something). 

The actual transformation isnt the issue, its just that it can be unexpected, not neccesarily out of malice but bad communication. Changing how his transformation work would compromise the actual good combos you could make with woodie and wicker (ex full moon refill on command)

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, maeslay said:

honestly? i cant speak for everyone that mains woodie but i think it should just be kept as is. its really not that as big of an Issue as everyone's making it out to be, if anything it can be pretty fun, my only problem with it (personally) is that in pubs u might not know when the books going to be used and therefor be unprepared n not have food for after transforming. My solution to this would probably be some sort of global warning that tells either woodie or everyone in the server that wicker's used the book (maybe lucy starts yellibng at you that the moons phases have changed or something). 

The actual transformation isnt the issue, its just that it can be unexpected, not neccesarily out of malice but bad communication. Changing how his transformation work would compromise the actual good combos you could make with woodie and wicker (ex full moon refill on command)

If it were to suppress repeated transformations I don't think it would stop the full moon refilling the meter, just transforming him out of human. I don't think it's an issue either but with how many people are complaining about it I thought that this would be a possible solution without compromising Woodie's gameplay. 

[Owlrust]

I like the idea of there being a Moon Glass/Rock armor that, on top of acting as an armor, nulls the effects of the moon. Give Woodie a quote to hint at its benefits, and I could see myself equipping one come next full moon.