The many ways of playing this game.

[00petar00]

15 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Then why are we having this argument? What you started in on was very clearly marked as my experience and feeling. I find it boring. I find it not that (relativity, y'all) rewarding.

If you need to conserve resources or only want to expend the minimum amount of time and energy possible accruing only exactly what you need, then sure, you don't want to tank'n'spank. That seems self-evident. Not everybody needs or wants to play that way, though, so that's moot. It's not like I ever called Esai's information useless.

Not sure if you missed the spoiler bit or don't know what /s means, but none of that stuff about the Tam and all that was meant to be taken seriously. I was making a joke about some of the elitist people and ideas Esai was referring to.

Because of how you worded it and it is a discussion for me and not an argument. You said that it isn't rewarding to kite when that is just false.

This discussion isn't about playstyle and you can find it boring but you can't really argue how much time you save on gathering these resources you use if you wouldn't get hit.

For example there are times when i kill dragonfly without getting hit once and usually at most i get hit a few times, now since i never tanked this boss, i am not sure how much armor and healing you use but you can probably calculate how much time you spent preparing for this fight.

I knew that you were joking about tam and the sanity but i still wanted to explain that i don't even play like that myself, i do play similarly to how they do but i don't think that it is fun to stay insane all the time, especially since i can just make nightmare fuel farms.

[HowlVoid]

Everyone gravitates to a different way to play the game and that's fine.

I think this forum tries too hard to find the "right" way to play.

This game appeals to perfectionists, speedrunners, slow players, solo play, and team play (and many more). Why is the way someone plays inferior to yours? 

As long as you have fun, who cares.

[jan Mele]

5 hours ago, Faintly Macabre said:

And bringing up speedrunners is kind of stepping on your own toes, because if a little prep and a no-brain strategy can save them even a fraction of a second, they'll do it every time.

Mm, not really

Some strats are just too random or too difficult for humans to perform consistenly without extra and are mostly used in TAS

@EsaiXD if consistency isn't a part of skill, then what is?

[Faintly Macabre]

13 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

You said that it isn't rewarding to kite when that is just false.

I said I don't find it that rewarding. That is not false. It's not objective. I have the stuff I need to not do it, I don't like doing it, I far prefer preparing not to do it. So I don't do it.

Spoiler

Sometimes because of course I do some kiting. I don't even usually tank Deerclops. A more appropriate example is Dragonfly, which is an obnoxiously long fight that can be made substantially shorter by just standing and whacking.

22 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

This discussion isn't about playstyle and you can find it boring but you can't really argue how much time you save on gathering these resources you use if you wouldn't get hit.

Which discussion? The topic is literally about playstyle. The bit you quoted from me when you started engaging with me in this topic is about my playstyle. What I like and don't like to do.

And the only reason I can't argue about how much time I save is because I couldn't be bothered to work that out. I suspect it's less than you think, and in some cases may even be a net gain, because again, I keep enough resources around simply as a matter of course that I don't need to be very conservative with them. But I can't say for certain.

24 minutes ago, jan Mele said:

Mm, not really

Some strats are just too random or too difficult for humans to perform consistenly without extra and are mostly used in TAS

Those kinds of strats aren't really what I had in mind by "no-brain". Many strategies involving a little extra preparation and reckless gameplay are precisely to avoid RNG or reliance on overly exact inputs.

[jan Mele]

5 minutes ago, Faintly Macabre said:

Those kinds of strats aren't really what I had in mind by "no-brain". Many strategies involving a little extra preparation and reckless gameplay are precisely to avoid RNG or reliance on overly exact inputs.

ah, ok

[Faintly Macabre]

2 minutes ago, jan Mele said:

ah, ok

You're right though that that's kind of what I said. "Every time" was an exaggeration. My bad.

[GelatinousCube]

Just adding my two cents:

First off Console is a very different beast and many strategies on PC are not nearly as effortless, effective or easy on console. 

Secondly as far as the whole Kite Vs Tank argument I feel like an important element and addition to the discussion is where you are in the game; early, mid or late game. Early game for sure you are going to benefit more from kiting and being more strategic and tackling and beating challenges/combat with the fewest amount of resources/armor possible as you have limited resources to begin with and the less you use the more you gain from the rewards and drops.

Mid to late game however if you are good at the game/don't have crippling resource limits set in your world settings/generation you start to amass huge amounts of most resources and unless/even if you are terraforming your entire world and need everything you get you generally have an abundance of armor and resources. What else are you going to use these resources on? There is only so much stockpiling you can do for the future before it turns into hoarding instead (what real use is an entire chest of bundle wrapped Thul Helms? I have multiple in my long term world and honestly they serve no purpose now other than being boastful/aesthetic and are in reality a waste).

Given that tanking can often be a LOT faster than kiting (as you get so many more hits in on the enemy) time also becomes an important resource to factor in. If you are going to reset and farm the ruins/obtain whatever materials and armors regularly anyway why not use up what you have spare and make a fight much faster and save half the time. There is also always night time and darkness to factor in - if you can beat a boss in a day/afternoon and avoid the game hitting night time that also removes an element as you no longer need to worry about a light source for part of the fight (not that this is difficult late game between the staffs, mushlamps, morning star, crown etc etc).

I just think there is more to factor in and consider than many realise when it comes down to the whole tanking vs kiting discussion. I think that a combination of both based on where you are in the game/how many resources you have/several other factors are important and its not just some skill based thing like some think it is. Kiting obviously takes a little bit more skill/practise but in reality it is not always the most efficient way of approaching combat. If you can beat the foe in a much faster time and the materials used to do so are in no way important to you anyway and you can easily afford to use them up tanking may be far more efficient. 

Late game with endless jellybeans via a good Bee Queen setup and multiple self sustaining/generating food farms for healing foods Health is also a factor that isn't that important either (so long as you obviously don't die during an encounter/fight) and can easily be replenished in a multitude of different ways. Hell you could even just sleep your health back to full on the regular if you have tons of silk/auto silk farms if you can't be bothered to make healing foods for whatever reason.

Basically: A combination of Kiting and Tanking based on your current situation, goals and resources >>>>>>> Kiting OR Tanking exclusively.

I think this also applies to non-combat situations as well. If you can afford the resources easily then doing things the most cost-effective way is not neccessarily the best way of doing things by any means. Even if you use up more resources doing it a different way you may have far more safety or leeway for errors or side tasks along the way. 

There are many ways of playing the game and I feel like strategies for doing things the most cost/time/skill effective ways are only really valid in the early game when this actually matters. Late game it has next to no importance or impact so long as you are decently good at the game because every aspect becomes much easier and resources stockpile.

[Guille6785]

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Everyone gravitates to a different way to play the game and that's fine.

I think this forum tries too hard to find the "right" way to play.

This game appeals to perfectionists, speedrunners, slow players, solo play, and team play (and many more). Why is the way someone plays inferior to yours? 

As long as you have fun, who cares.

Spoiler

 

I warned you

 

 

[Mysterious box]

11 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Having a couple of pig skins and some pierogi isn't really a time where tanking is a better choice and when we are discussing how good kiting is and how many resources it saves if you learn to do it properly.

It is completely up to you how you play the game but if we are talking about what is the best solution with minimum time investment, it is usually to kite.

I usually skip tam o shanter since i get enlightened crown but i still use sanity restoring items once i don't need to farm nightmare fuel that way also i use backpack and try to kill klaus in hope of getting krampus sack every winter until i do get it in that world since i really like gathering everything, playing without backpack doesn't suit me.

While true that i stay insane at the start as much as possible, especially since i play Wanda a lot and her alarming clock requires 8 nightmare fuel and shadow manipulator.

I don't speedrun the game, i just prefer playing somewhat efficiently.

To be fair it's not like building a excessive amount of healing and armor takes long even more so if your not picky you can usually get a ton of both early into autumn.

[NoodlemanNed]

all this tanking/kiting talk is cool and all but what if i let deerclops smash a few signs and we could be best friends

[DVGMedia]

19 hours ago, jan Mele said:

Mm, not really

Some strats are just too random or too difficult for humans to perform consistenly without extra and are mostly used in TAS

@EsaiXD if consistency isn't a part of skill, then what is?

Consistency can be part of skill
I would say when it comes to having addons it kind of changes it right?
You cant say you have mastered riding a bike if you still have training wheels on?
Thats kind of how i think of it
However don't starve  does have inherently random aspects to it. Like how attack speed changes at random
so having some sort of buffer should still be allowed.

On second thought its kind of more like playing an arcade game.
every time you play an arcade game the first few times are really hard. you die and lose lots of money.
however over time as you play it you get better and get further in the game. so much so you can potentially beat it without needing to use more money than the first payment to play.
 

[jan Mele]

21 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

Consistency can be part of skill
I would say when it comes to having addons it kind of changes it right?
You cant say you have mastered riding a bike if you still have training wheels on?
Thats kind of how i think of it
However don't starve  does have inherently random aspects to it. Like how attack speed changes at random
so having some sort of buffer should still be allowed.

On second thought its kind of more like playing an arcade game.
every time you play an arcade game the first few times are really hard. you die and lose lots of money.
however over time as you play it you get better and get further in the game. so much so you can potentially beat it without needing to use more money than the first payment to play.
 

I'd say the game isn't really about dodging, it's about knowledge and appliying it

Yeah, dodging is a part of skill, but it's not essential. DST is a sandbox game.