Jazzy clip on "Adding more slots"

[loopuleasa]

From jazzy stream, after actually playing WX for 100 days

The Clip: https://clips.twitch.tv/AdorableOriginalOwlYee-CBNVYdvpGN6TrDIQ

 

 

because I basically feel 1/2 threads started are a re-enactment of this by people who haven't played 10 days with new WX:

[RogerMu]

Yes, they would be stronger, that's exactly the point.

3-2-2 and 4-3 combinations are fun, and even with them you can't reach what current WX could, so it's not like it's busted.

[Cheggf]

Exactly what I've been saying. Adding another slot would just make people stack more of the already good circuits, it wouldn't make people pick the bad ones any more. The bad ones should just be buffed, I have no idea why so many people think if you just keep adding more slots on and lowering his stats it would suddenly make those circuits more fun or balanced.

[leo920101]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

it wouldn't make people pick the bad ones any more

I don't think there should be any "BAD ONES", and with lowered stats we're already having a good start, some of us just started thinking about half functional half stats combinations.

7 is an odd number, which is good for increasing the total number of combinations, if we got 100 base stats, 7 slot and better 1-slot circuits, everything will nicely add up.

[Cheggf]

8 minutes ago, leo920101 said:

I don't think there should be any "BAD ONES", and with lowered stats we're already having a good start, some of us just started thinking about half functional half stats combinations.

7 is an odd number, which is good for increasing the total number of combinations, if we got 100 base stats, 7 slot and better 1-slot circuits, everything will nicely add up.

Okay, you "think about" equipping those worthless stat upgrades because now you'll starve after 181 instead of 183 minutes. But people were already equipping them at 150 stats, they're just as boring and worthless with 125 stats and would be just as boring and worthless with 100 stats. Maybe if he had 75 stats or less they would start to become worth equipping but they would still be boring and that would just be a big pointless nerf.

Also not sure how odd numbers allow for more combinations than even numbers. There are circuits with both odd and even costs.

[leo920101]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

they're just as boring and worthless

emmm....no, that might just be you.

there's no point to pretend not seeing those topic about stats changing, players enjoy higher stats regardless of how little or how much stats changes affect the actual game experience, and some of them are willing to choose stats rather than function at the stats of 125, more will be willing at 100, I know you won't, neither does Loopuleasa, but there's really no point to try proving other's choices are boring or not.

[TheDoctor11220]

18 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Exactly what I've been saying. Adding another slot would just make people stack more of the already good circuits, it wouldn't make people pick the bad ones any more. The bad ones should just be buffed, I have no idea why so many people think if you just keep adding more slots on and lowering his stats it would suddenly make those circuits more fun or balanced.

If you add more slots suddenly room appears for the "bad" circuits. That room had previously been occupied by the good/efficient circuits. Good combos can start appearing that make the bad circuits good. For example dronemaster is pretty much pointless without a hardy circuit, and currently if you use both you're left with 1 slot which can be filled with only the inefficient cheap circuits. With 7 slots you'd be left with 2 slots to put in a speed circuit or an electric circuit, or a second hardy 2.0 circuit. It makes dronemaster worth having suddenly. I feel like the 2-2-3 combos are the most diverse and have the highest fun potential so 7 slots would be perfect. 

You also circumvent the issues that 8+ circuits would impose (eg. 4 speed circuits). It also doesn't make the current strongest combos (3 speed, or 1 night vision and 1 speed) any stronger, as they perfectly fill the 6 slots (the remaining slot can be filled only with a cheap circuit which as I mentioned before is inefficient). This makes these two strong combos not unquestionably the best by making the alternative 2-2-3 or 3-4 combos more alluring.

[Cheggf]

6 minutes ago, TheDoctor11220 said:

If you add more slots suddenly room appears for the "bad" circuits. That room had previously been occupied by the good/efficient circuits. Good combos can start appearing that make the bad circuits good. For example dronemaster is pretty much pointless without a hardy circuit, and currently if you use both you're left with 1 slot which can be filled with only the inefficient cheap circuits. With 7 slots you'd be left with 2 slots to put in a speed circuit or an electric circuit, or a second hardy 2.0 circuit. It makes dronemaster worth having suddenly. I feel like the 2-2-3 combos are the most diverse and have the highest fun potential so 7 slots would be perfect. 

You also circumvent the issues that 8+ circuits would impose (eg. 4 speed circuits). It also doesn't make the current strongest combos (3 speed, or 1 night vision and 1 speed) any stronger, as they perfectly fill the 6 slots (the remaining slot can be filled only with a cheap circuit which as I mentioned before is inefficient). This makes these two strong combos not unquestionably the best by making the alternative 2-2-3 or 3-4 combos more alluring.

8+ circuits wouldn't impose any issues, it would just allow you to use the bad circuits more. Let's give WX 50 circuits, then everyone will equip the bad circuits! I mean, sure, they're still bad and boring, but they're being equipped which is apparently the only thing that matters.

8 minutes ago, leo920101 said:

emmm....no, that might just be you.

And you, you mean? Because I just told you people equip the stat circuits with 150 base stats.

[Random Guy000]

6 minutes ago, leo920101 said:

there's no point to pretend not seeing those topic about stats changing, players enjoy higher stats regardless of how little or how much stats changes affect the actual game experience, and some of them are willing to choose stats rather than function at the stats of 125, more will be willing at 100, I know you won't, neither does Loopuleasa, but there's really no point to try proving other's choices are boring or not.

But doesn't it discourage creativity? Very little people actually want a stat boost instead of unique perk, like infinite frikkin light. Stat boosts shouldn't feel like a necessity, its a flavour, not a main course

[loopuleasa]

I swear, people just don't like constraints in general

Having 6 slots actually encourages creativity, because with 6 slots you have to make the most out of them.

If you want to not be constrained, just install the inevitable mod that gives you 10 slots, or just enable cheats.

 

The fun of the game lies in its constraints.

[Mysterious box]

From my testing 6 circuits already offers enough variety just feels like raising it is just a excuse to have a 1 size fits all build.

[SinancoTheBest]

5 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

I swear, people just don't like constraints in general

Having 6 slots actually encourages creativity, because with 6 slots you have to make the most out of them.

If you want to not be constrained, just install the inevitable mod that gives you 10 slots, or just enable cheats.

 

The fun of the game lies in its constraints.

The great thing about number 7 and 7 alone is that it offered way more space for creativity without letting any of the currently overused circuits to shine as none of the 2, 3, or 4 prong circuits would be able to stack further- all it does is allow for more dynamic combinations. The initial arguments for 100-all stats, 7th slot, more 1-prong circuits and more expensive opto-electric was that as a package the changes offered the biggest and most diverse set of combinations where both stat and perk circuits were given proper chance to shine.

What Klei did instead is a half measure that basically amounts to most of that by tuning down stats just a tad bit, adding 1 prong circuits for all stats and lowering the prongs of illumination circuit. 

Is it good? Yes. Could it have been better by allowing more dynamic combos and a heavier encouragement for all sorts of circuits? absolutely.

[leo920101]

16 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

If you want to not be constrained, just install the inevitable mod that gives you 10 slots, or just enable cheats.

Don't make a conceptual shift between 7 slots and infinite slots

I agree with the constraints thing but I am not sure we should override others' play style with our own, DST is not a E-sports events

 

And by the way, there could be MODs that decreas the number of slots, so a 7th slot is not the end of time

[TheDoctor11220]

13 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

I swear, people just don't like constraints in general

Having 6 slots actually encourages creativity, because with 6 slots you have to make the most out of them.

If you want to not be constrained, just install the inevitable mod that gives you 10 slots, or just enable cheats.

 

The fun of the game lies in its constraints.

There is no creativity when you have the unquestionable best combos that everyone will go for (triple speed or night vision and speed). If you have 7 slots then you have the potential of 2-2-3 combos and you don't even disrupt the existing 2-2-2 or 4-2 combos, they'll just have an extra 1-cost circuit added to them which won't make a difference really. The triple speed will probably still be best, but now you have to consider two speed and an illumination perhaps (basically a weaker overload but permanent at the cost of no stats), and so on. There are a lot of 2-2-3 combos and they are very fun and I would argue it gives even more room for creativity.

[leo920101]

22 minutes ago, Random Guy000 said:

But doesn't it discourage creativity? Very little people actually want a stat boost instead of unique perk, like infinite frikkin light. Stat boosts shouldn't feel like a necessity, its a flavour, not a main course

what we're talking here is 3+2+2 take place of 3+2+1, the only thing "speed x2 + thermal/illumination" take place of is "speed + night vision", will that cut down creativity?

 

don't you think with 6 slots, there's very very very few combination macths "speed + night vision"?

but with 7 slot, there're "speed x2 + thermal","speed + thermal + gastric“ and etc.

 

that actually courage players to creat their favorite combination.

 

Also, players having their diffrent favorite combination is even better than players change their combinations but all in a same way.

[bigGMIW]

Ive played a looooot of this rework because its by far my far my favorite rework so far. I do still believe that 7 slots would be better. I know that would make them more powerful but I do think that it wouldnt be so much more powerful that its unfair. I think the main arguement for 7 slots is it just allows for more creative and interesting builds. But i understand thats what the 1 slot circuits were meant to fill but they can still fill a role in 7 slot wx78 that i will enjoy. 

[TheDoctor11220]

28 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

8+ circuits wouldn't impose any issues, it would just allow you to use the bad circuits more. Let's give WX 50 circuits, then everyone will equip the bad circuits! I mean, sure, they're still bad and boring, but they're being equipped which is apparently the only thing that matters.

Whey will be experimented with and that IS the only thing that matters. People will want to try different combos. I never said they're bad or boring, just more niche. If given the correct combo opportunity they can shine. And the leap from 7 to 8 is massive as much as you try to underplay that point. With 7 it's important that you can't do more copies of the same 2 or 3 cost module than before (still a maximum of three 2-cost modules and two 3-cost modules).

[-Nick-]

I used to be on the 7th slot bandwagon, but after the recent WX changes. I think 6 slots is fine.

[Baark0]

unrelated but can the temperature module (at least the heat one, idk bout cold one) have the temperature be high enough so the freezing overlay isnt present?

[loopuleasa]

I am 100% sure if current WX rework was at 7 pins, we would still see threads about people wanting 8 pins.

It is human nature.

[SinancoTheBest]

Just now, loopuleasa said:

I am 100% sure if current WX rework was at 7 pins, we would still see threads about people wanting 8 pins.

It is human nature.

There would and there already was (some threads suggested 8, some 9, some even 12). But they just weren't and wouldn't be as sound as the 7 slot balance.

[-Nick-]

Having 7 slots is pushing it, having even more is just silly.

[loopuleasa]

Just now, SinancoTheBest said:

There would and there already was (some threads suggested 8, some 9, some even 12). But they just weren't and wouldn't be as sound as the 7 slot balance.

My point also is: No one is suggesting less pins...

The direction is always up.

It's all dopamine hits.

[Cheggf]

46 minutes ago, TheDoctor11220 said:

There is no creativity when you have the unquestionable best combos that everyone will go for (triple speed or night vision and speed). If you have 7 slots then you have the potential of 2-2-3 combos and you don't even disrupt the existing 2-2-2 or 4-2 combos, they'll just have an extra 1-cost circuit added to them which won't make a difference really. The triple speed will probably still be best, but now you have to consider two speed and an illumination perhaps (basically a weaker overload but permanent at the cost of no stats), and so on. There are a lot of 2-2-3 combos and they are very fun and I would argue it gives even more room for creativity.

Double speed and light or weather immunity is even more unquestionably the best choice over night vision and speed.

[SinancoTheBest]

2 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

My point also is: No one is suggesting less pins...

The direction is always up.

It's all dopamine hits.

If you want it that hard, I can make a suggestion about 5 slots because;

_he's too OP, having boss perlks for granted_

_not any downsides_ 

Yadda yada..

 

However be it 5, 7 or 9, I believe odd numbers make for way more dynamic combinations than even numbers. There