Why is crafting system completely remover

[Theukon-dos]

On 3/20/2022 at 6:47 PM, Dr.Medic said:

so by that, it means that the new ui is bad, because many will use the old and better one, wich is obviously better, since its actualy faster in use, but we had this talk so many times allready, that there is just no point arguin to yes sayers

Just out of curiosity, have you actually used the new crafting UI? And I don't mean popped into the beta and screwed around for 5 minutes. I mean actually went into a world and stress-tested the new system in survival. Because no, the old system is not "Obviously better". Faster overall perhaps. But the new crafting UI is more intuitive, cleaner, more organized, and faster for items you craft frequently. 

On 3/21/2022 at 3:23 PM, PetulantPansy said:

I've been skeptical of the new crafting UI. After playing around with it for a little, the new UI *can* be more efficient/better than the existing one *if* you set it up to your optimal playstyle (customize your favorites & quick access column). While it is annoying that you will have to set this up each time you play a new world, if you play past winter, it should generally be worth it. I saw nothing wrong with the existing crafting methodology, and it will take a little time to get used to the new one. That said, I see this as something akin to the 2nd rework of wolfie at the beta release - it's something you can work with that will probably get some minor tweaks later. 

 

As far as the "making it easier to add new future items", I'm a bit skeptical about this. New craftable items generally fall into 3 categories:

1. Inferior to items that already exist - no one will use it (ie. no one even will care where it is in the menu)

2. On par with items that already exist (ex. eye mask of terror) - some people will adopt it and use it, others will continue to be fine without even knowing that it exists 

3. Superior to items that already exist (ex. wanda's clock) - high adoption rate, people will want to use it. But these items are incredibly rare because they will just serve to make the game even easier. 

 

There is one important caveat. If there is new content introduced that introduces a completely new unique biome or mechanic (ex. thirst! [lol], space travel, scuba diving, etc.) there will understandably need to be a completely new set of items that do not fall in any of the categories mentioned prior. Is it possible? Who knows. 

The issue is that, even if an item is "useless", they still take up space in the crafting menu. Including protoyping. And of course if those useless items have a fringe use, then prototyping them once will always be in the crafting menu after that. 

[Hugepackage]

I will reserve judgement when it comes to console. BUT from the images that I have seen. Everything seems to point to "This was designed with Mouse + Keyboard" in mind and the consoles we hope it works out. Im praying that it works. but it looks like menu navigation heavily favors mouse. I wouldnt mind this UI change if Klei themselves stop screwing around with not having multiple input methods. I would like Mouse + Keyboard on console. Dont tell me to make the jump to PC because ive dropped a lot of money on console on skins there and there is no skin transfers. (unless klei gives me the option to do a one time merge.)

[GodIess]

don't worry, the crafting idea itself is very good and handy, give it some more time to polish and it will be perfect. And it’s not difficult to return the old familiar tabs and recipes for them, I’m just finishing with this
 

[Mantispidae]

Going to paste what I said back in the beta:

"It's really not realistic to expect Klei to co-develop two systems strictly for the sake of keeping people who don't want to move on to the newer one. 

It sucks, but they aren't a huge team, and it's just not a smart or good use of time or resources to go through the effort of updating and recreating a system and then not move on from the old version. Of course, its going to take time getting used to for everyone, its probably gonna feel weird and like it doesn't work as well as the old. But give yourself some adjustment time and then work out the parts you don't like or that don't work so that those can be adjusted and we can hopefully end on a system that does it's job better than the old while future-proofing for updates."

It's a lot of work to keep two completely separate systems for a core mechanic up and running side by side, and with something like crafting- that's a lot of updates including it. At that point keeping both of them, you save no labor and benefit little from actually going through the effort to change things up for the better, you just add more work on top of the old because you didn't want to leave the one you changed. Klei changed the system because it had some gaps in design that just didn't work with the way the game plays, it had bloat issues, no searching- a dozen minor things. Its familiar but it has holes they want to correct rather than let problems fester.

It's weird yea, but they were very open to adjustments during beta and I'm sure they're just as open now, if something's 'off' about the new one, talk about it. Get the holes patched while it's new so that it feels improved like it's intended to be.

[Toroic]

On 3/21/2022 at 1:22 AM, SinancoTheBest said:

It's more akin to RWYS removing old farms and HL&I changing fish behavior. The forced migration to the new hud is being made because the two interfaces have largely different philosophies and are somewhat incompatible. They'd need to enlarge the old UI to add permanent slots for fishing and turfs to begin with and someone would need to put extra effort everytime bew content is added to keep the old UI acceptably functional.

I'm sure the modders will be on it and deliver an old UI reversion mod for those who want to resist change anyway.

I actually don't think this will happen because the work to try to revert the UI changes would be a nightmare to do, and largely unrewarding because you'd be catering to a small, loud group who are deeply uncomfortable with change.

So it would require an impressive skillset, a lot of time retrofitting, and your reward would be a lot of complaining.

Not many people are that talented, have that much free time, and are also terrible at estimating risk/reward.

[azazel3221]

I can kinda deal with the new UI... But the new categories really need to go. Im used to having all my clothes in one place, building in another, i remember which items count as science and I would always be able to instantly tell you which tab an item is in. But with those new tabs it's just a mess, all iems are all over the place, some items even appear in multiple categories at once. And don't even get me started on the modded items. What klei did should count as a war crime. Tossing ALL mod items from ALL mods into a SINGLE CATEGORY is absolutely unacceptable, like yeah search bar exists, but you cant expect someone to know names of all iems in all of their mods + the search bar is always bloated with other items for 0 reason. 

 

Keep the UI, it's manageable. Remove the new categories, they are a crime. 

[QuartzBeam]

3 hours ago, azazel3221 said:

I can kinda deal with the new UI... But the new categories really need to go.

The old categories were a mess. Everything that did not exactly fit any other tab was just thrown into Survival. The Bird Cage and Scaled Furnace were in Structures for some reason. If you wanted to make it through winter, you had to find clothes in the Dress Tab, but needed to go to Survival to find the Thermal Stone. The latter, in particular, was a gamble for new players. Either they'd happen to scroll through the ever increasing Survival Tab and notice something called a "thermal stone" or they'd end up gluing themselves to their firepit and inevitably die.

The new ones are a massive improvement in being much more intuitive and specific. A player who just made it to winter won't have to wade through tons of unrelated recipes to find Winter Items. You can actually search by what you want to do, rather than by trying to guess which of several vaguely named categories might hold an item that could fit your purposes.

And you're basically arguing this improvement should be undone because... you already knew the old UI by heart?

 

3 hours ago, azazel3221 said:

Im used to having all my clothes in one place, building in another

So... like the Clothing and Structures filters?

 

3 hours ago, azazel3221 said:

some items even appear in multiple categories at once

Why should items that provide Light and allow Cooking only be in one of the two categories?

 

3 hours ago, azazel3221 said:

And don't even get me started on the modded items. What klei did should count as a war crime. Tossing ALL mod items from ALL mods into a SINGLE CATEGORY is absolutely unacceptable

The modded items category is for mod items that have not yet been assigned a proper filter by the creator of the mod. Give it some time and people will update their mods accordingly.

[Echsrick]

9 hours ago, azazel3221 said:

I can kinda deal with the new UI... But the new categories really need to go. Im used to having all my clothes in one place, building in another, i remember which items count as science and I would always be able to instantly tell you which tab an item is in. But with those new tabs it's just a mess, all iems are all over the place, some items even appear in multiple categories at once. And don't even get me started on the modded items. What klei did should count as a war crime. Tossing ALL mod items from ALL mods into a SINGLE CATEGORY is absolutely unacceptable, like yeah search bar exists, but you cant expect someone to know names of all iems in all of their mods + the search bar is always bloated with other items for 0 reason. 

 

Keep the UI, it's manageable. Remove the new categories, they are a crime. 

thankfully this mod here

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2784074596

has an option to have kind of old taps back, like where all the items are from before, and no item is in 5 differend taps at once, it even has an option to have old character craft taps icons

[DVGMedia]

you know honestly I think i would be fine with the new system if the icons for selecting the crafting tab just stayed vertical vs being horizontal.

just turn the hud sidways and make the icons be in the same alignment as they were before but you could still have your big area where the craftables  show up.

[GodIess]

oh if i figured out how to add my changes to the game files as a mod, i would do this, but for now i just don’t understand how to make it work

[lv746591263]

I hate this change. Many friends around me also hate this change. Why? For example, in the past, there were drawers on the Android mobile desktop. To open the software, you need to open the drawer. Now there are all apps on the Android mobile desktop. To open the software, you only need to open it directly. Why does this happen? Because it is convenient, people's operation habit is to see and click, and the operation steps should be as few as possible, so as to increase the positive feedback of users and increase the user experience, In the past, it was troublesome for players to find a production. In fact, Klei didn't do targeted optimization at all. For example, add the top button of each item, or add a column in the original manufacturing column to permanently display and collect. However, you didn't do it at all. You just wanted to make it more convenient for us in your eyes. But, do you really play games often? The game should pay attention to the user experience, not to say that the function realization is the purpose. Your purpose has always been one, so that players can have a good game experience

[allmeitysk]

I love how new menu is much bigger, I see a lot more items on the screen. Previously I was scrolling a lot - now I have few more clicks. Which is better? I prefer click few more times and get much quicker overview of whats in each tab. It took me few days just playing to have basic understanding of what is where. A common sense is necessary to understand that if I want thermal stone I should be looking for winter/summer icon. 

 

I am UX Designer and I have to say that the new menu makes a lot of sense and it has been implemented almost perfectly. There are some tweaks needed but I love it.