Putting the "Uncompromising" in DST

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, Canis said:

We've been demonized because a few of our devs (who either left the team entirely or severely regret their actions because they were just filled with excitement) were stupid on the forums a few years ago. We have 10x the content we had since then, but nobody cares, and its the most disheartening thing in the world.

you know, people is very good at pointing others fault even if years passed or even if their faults are worst

i didn't like how some devs acted in the forum but i notice how that changed for good. If other people cant see it might be because they dont want and wanna keep that hate to fill their poor lives so just ignore them. If your team can change the behaviour but they dont means that you and your team are better. Also i have notice that lot of people feel atacked when it comes to raise the difficulty so i guess your mod is their worst nightmere even if it doesnt affect them

we complain about not having good mods other than mods to make it easier or furros but when someone (or a group) are doing a great job (even if you do not like the direction which is fine) they atack instead of support

 

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

 

If that's how you really feel, then genuinely consider rebranding it as "DST Hard Mode" or "DST CRAZY SURVIVAL CHALLENGE" and leave the word "uncompromising" off the label.  A few people certainly spread some bad vibes for the uncompromising mod, but the term its self comes with a lot of heat for how its used without your mod even coming up.

The name is perfect, needing to reach that point because some 60IQ users would be sad

[Cloakingsumo198]

I wasn't here for the whole forum fiasco but I've been known about "uncompromising mode" since it began and I think it breaths in alot of fresh air for players that already know the in's and out's of the base game but like all overhaul mods they have their place and audience, can't win everybody over.

The whole concept of others bashing people for their ideas and mods that are completely "optional" though is disheartening. 

The community has been like this for a long time, it sucks. For all the options we're given in base game, all the amazing mods, and the whole cooperation aspect of DST the player base can be extremely hostile to other's play styles and visions even in the most civil discussions. Especially when the easiest thing to do on forums is just not take part in it.

[Mike23Ua]

Yo listen I literally just got done playing a few rounds of Minecraft Dungeons, now before today I had never played this game at all… but couple things i noticed:

Spiders spit web that trap you in place for a few seconds.

And Some enemy types can inflict the user with Poison Bleed Out effects.

Features DS/DST has had & is clearly capable of: But for some reason we’re too afraid to ramp up the difficulty.

As far as my personal opinion goes: They could add a bunch of fun new harder content into world Gen toggles that are toggled to Off by default:

Stuff like Food only restores Hunger & not HP or Sanity- Which would mean only the actual dedicated healing tab items or sanity restoring clothing/ would work instead of the games various food dishes.

Being able to spawn into the game with a permanently reduced health core.

Uncompromising doesn’t mean It needs to be against enemies that if they hit you once your game world is deleted.. it could just be new ways to experience existing content.

[Capybara007]

What does mc dungeons even has to do with dst bruh

[l0rdgumby]

This image is from the Klei Website for Don't Starve. From this, I think "uncompromising" just means that the game isn't keen on helping you out with tutorials or anything like that. Your survival depends on yourself and your abilities to fight your way through this world that is TERRIBLE to be in. With that in mind, experienced players have gone through their adventure of trying to figure out this crazy world for themselves, so it still fits the bill of being uncompromising.

[Canis]

12 hours ago, Shosuko said:

This thread wasn't about your mod.  Its about the current difficulty of the game and the word "uncompromising" is used because its in Klei's own description of the game.  The word begs controversy, and thus discussion.

Uncompromising Mode (the Mod) came up as a topic and stayed up for enough time where I figured It was appropriate to open the valve and let off a little steam Ive had for years now regarding the topic. It wasnt my intention to hijack the thread at all.

Because I posted this, it prompted a discussion in Hornete's server which I decided to take a part of, and several people still thought Uncomp was the same as it was in 2019. Some still dislike it, some say that they'll give it another shot, but im just happy that I (and other devs) were able to convince people that Uncomp changed, and is a lot better.

We're stuck in a 10 foot hole, and we don't have any shovels.

[Wurtstool]

Damn, I never would of thought this thread would get so controversial. I was just here to boast about Klei's good game design and to see what you guys think.  

(Maybe I should have seen this coming form the title alone , but I'm still happy to see everyone's takes so far)

[Mike23Ua]

I don’t think Uncompromising has to mean what you guys think it means either… we don’t need the game to be frustratingly difficult, we just need to stop being so familiar with the biomes & knowing what mobs and resources spawn where & when.

Case in point: When players can ignore entire biomes because you know there’s not going to be anything there your looking for: It does more then just prove that this game is still using content design from 2013..

Its time for a huge change to the game.. because were a little over a year away from the 10 year anniversary of the Dont Starve Franchise: Uncompromising does not have to mean being hit once and immediately dying having your world erased: 

Maybe Uncompromising just means that things aren’t always in the same place every single time you play..

Maybe Pig King is found in a Desert, or Cave, on a Secluded Island out in the Ocean, MAYBE no Pig King Spawns at all?

Klei promised me randomly generated worlds, and throughout 2022-2024 I want them to double down on that part of the game.

[SinancoTheBest]

On 1/7/2022 at 10:20 AM, Mike23Ua said:

As far as my personal opinion goes: They could add a bunch of fun new harder content into world Gen toggles that are toggled to Off by default

I respectfully disagree with you on this sentiment with regards to game design and the future of DST. It's clear that you love playing with the world settings and want the developers to keep expending on it like they greatly did so in March 2021 QoL and yea, of course some effort should continually go to increasing the customization option the game offers. However when it comes to the actual content and entity behavior in the game, it should never be gated behind the toggleable game settings save for the seasonal events.

I don't have evidence but I can safely say that at 90% of the servers play on the vanilla settings and most of those that do converge from it has minute changes. Regardless of that statistic, The game should always be built around the "vanilla settings" experience. As much contestation it might bring as seen in this thread, any difficulty change to the game therefore should primarily focus on what the default settings offer and build content up from there; mechanisms depending on the world age and lengthy tasks such as the Return of Them questline can be used to prevent harder content from devastating newcomers. As such, it is futile to argue about the so called "uncompromising nature of the game" through game settings. Sure, the game settings provide options to put or remove challenges personally but overall DST and the challenges it offers is all reliant on how the game plays in default settings, not altered ones.

18 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe Pig King is found in a Desert, or Cave, on a Secluded Island out in the Ocean, MAYBE no Pig King Spawns at all?

In a similar vein, some predictability is important and keeps the game design intact. It's already mildly troubling when some desired optional setpieces like tripple mctusk or tentacle reed trap doesn't spawn, and outright debilitating when world gen fails to place guaranteed components like Glommer's Statue, Crab King and Fountains of knowledge. funky pig king spawns now and then can be fun but the game should never limit access to key components such as the pig  king as part of randomization. The default experience should ensure the server provides everything the constant has to offer somewhere or anotherplace. One thing to make lesser visited biomes to be more popular to give them a unique attraction such as Savannas slowly regenerating grass tufts depending of the number of tufts in the world, just like the Waterlogged biome regenning fireflies when most of them are caught.

On 1/7/2022 at 9:00 PM, Canis said:

Hornete's server

allegedly annoying mod shoutouts is one thing (and I think they are perfectly fine, if anything the good, bellowed mods should be commonly referred to when it's fit in order to reach a wider audience) but can we ease up on the exclusive club shoutouts? :P

[abrocator]

Here’s the deal.  We will kill you over and over again until you learn how not to die.  Deal?

You might get mad at the game for killing you due to some completely non-intuitive mechanic the first time.  But the second time will be your own fault; you just failed to learn from your first death.

A death in survival isn’t a loss.  You gain knowledge.  And that knowledge might save your life next time.

This game is mostly about knowledge and experience.  There is fact a limit to how hard the game can be mechanically speaking; mechanical challenges seem to just boil down to inventory management/juggling.  So the skill ceiling is mostly about appropriately utilizing game knowledge.

And all of that goes out of the window once you decide that “uncompromising” should mean “as random as possible”.  Then a death just becomes a loss; the next game will be completely different, and you won’t be able to use your knowledge gleaned from all of your deaths.

So a statement like “this game about knowledge and experience isn’t hard once you have gained enough knowledge and experience” is just a truism.

[Mike23Ua]

15 minutes ago, abrocator said:

all of that goes out of the window once you decide that “uncompromising” should mean “as random as possible”.  Then a death just becomes a loss; the next game will be completely different, and you won’t be able to use your knowledge gleaned from all of your deaths.

This part isn’t actually true though, I play games like No Mans Sky, Descenders, Spelunky & hopefully soon Spelunky 2- Games where the entire play session is by large a mostly completely random experience.

There are even some shooter games with Map Modifiers that will Randomize & mix up the gameplay.. such as Gears, Halo, or even Batman Arkham City.

I originally bought DS it’s DLCs and DST because it was labeled as a game where I would get to explore randomly generated worlds full of things that hates me and wants me to die.

At first it genuinely feels this way, but then you learn what resources and mobs spawn in which biomes and at what time: And eventually you get to a point where you can ignore going into entire biomes just by looking at the ground turf and knowing what you want to find won’t be there.

This is Where DST hits its “Skill Cap” you learn too much and you’ve experienced all the “new” 

But with games like the ones I described above: Having those moments of not knowing when/what to expect is what make those games infinitely enjoyable.

I even made an entire thread about it where I explain and show clear gifs of parts of DS/DST that ALREADY break up the predictable gameplay loop: the problem is these things happen at such a low frequency that they may as well be “unknown features” at this point.

If you spent several in-game days in a desert just plucking tumbleweeds, you could end up popping that “Mystery Box” open and any combination of things could come from it: Mosquito, Bee, Frog, Spider, Gears, Reeds, Dark Petals.. etc..

My thread can be found here:

Please check it out.. I even suggested alternate “modes” so if your not a fan of RNG Mob Encounters they won’t intrude upon the way you currently enjoy playing the game.

[Yuuko]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is Where DST hits its “Skill Cap” you learn too much and you’ve experienced all the “new” \

False - there is a lot to DST beyond knowing where something spawns.  If you step out of a biome just because of the floor type, you might overlook that there is another biome attached after it, a cave entrance near ruins, a cane boon, unique set piece, land branch, or other oddities.

Random doesn't really exist - procedurally generated games still have patterns.  How much work a dev puts into covering up those patterns depends on what game experience they want.  The constant is more about gothic atmosphere then it is about OMGRANDOMLULZ, and I'm good with that.

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

False - there is a lot to DST beyond knowing where something spawns.  If you step out of a biome just because of the floor type, you might overlook that there is another biome attached after it, a cave entrance near ruins, a cane boon, unique set piece, land branch, or other oddities.

Random doesn't really exist - procedurally generated games still have patterns.  How much work a dev puts into covering up those patterns depends on what game experience they want.  The constant is more about gothic atmosphere then it is about OMGRANDOMLULZ, and I'm good with that.

Actually there sort of is.. for example- you can walk past a tier 3 spider den 5 million times until that one time it decides it wants to randomly turn into a Spider Queen.. but like with all enemies in DST you can just run far enough away from it that it doesn’t matter.

I even have a game clip somewhere where I killed a tier 3 nest got all the loot from it but it has already turned to a Spider Queen at the last second the nest was destroyed.

Biggest “Games that screwed you” moment I’ve had in a while.. but yeah.

[Maxposting]

19 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually there sort of is.. for example- you can walk past a tier 3 spider den 5 million times until that one time it decides it wants to randomly turn into a Spider Queen.. but like with all enemies in DST you can just run far enough away from it that it doesn’t matter.

That's not even how it works though