So hows Wolfgang?

[Cloakingsumo198]

3 minutes ago, Dollmaker said:

The main disadvantage with Wanda is that she cant heal with anything besides her Clock, which is a huge downside to have if you arent good at kiting or make mistakes.

This ain't about Wolfgang?

[Gi-Go]

Wolfgang is ruined. I hope klei are happy with their choices.

[Dollmaker]

36 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

This ain't about Wolfgang?

I mean you were talking about Wanda. 

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Dollmaker said:

The main disadvantage with Wanda is that she cant heal with anything besides her Clock, which is a huge downside to have if you arent good at kiting or make mistakes.

Depends on if your min maxing or not as this can be flipped as a amazing perk for some since she techincally comes equipped with infinite use healing which is one of the biggest advantages for casual players.

[Dollmaker]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Depends on if your min maxing or not as this can be flipped as a amazing perk for some since she techincally comes equipped with infinite use healing which is one of the biggest advantages for casual players.

I mean if youre good its hardly an issue but for people that arent good at evading dmg, it can easily be the end for them.

Since the Clocks take a space each, making it harder on the inventory management, specially for boss fights. 

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Dollmaker said:

I mean if youre good its hardly an issue but for people that arent good at evading dmg, it can easily be the end for them.

Since the Clocks take a space each, making it harder on the inventory management, specially for boss fights. 

3 clocks already give alot of hits and if someone isn't at bare min decent at dodging they should be staying in middle age not old age so long as their not straight tanking it shouldn't be a issue and if they do plan to mainly tank their gonna be burning thru a stupid amount of resources for the fights.

[Cheggf]

5 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i mean, what is the point of having harder characters if those cant reward the player with more impactful perks than easier characters?

 

Because harder characters are fun. Character "balance" has shown that how hard a character is has no impact on how powerful they are. Wanda and Wormwood are some of the best characters in the game but difficult. Wendy is one of the best characters in the game and also the easiest. Warly and Wickerbottom offer large advantages, but you don't actually need to play as them to get them, and Wickerbottom is pretty easy as well. 

A better question to ask is, "What is the point of having easier characters if they suck?". Do you honestly think that the majority of characters should be useless and only exist only as a temporary stopgap for people to use when they're new then abandon once they get better? Servers with experienced players should always be full of nothing but the same 3 characters?

[Yuuko]

5 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i mean, what is the point of having harder characters if those cant reward the player with more impactful perks than easier characters?

 

I think Wendy and Wigfrid show us we don't need a character to be harder to be more powerful or interesting XD

imo ~ game balance and design are not connected.  You can have a character that is risk reward right along side a character who is more direct brute force and its okay - afterall Wanda and oldWolf coexisted in the game and despite some complaints they both had their points of strength and weakness.  imo Wanda is what was missing that suddenly made oldWolf make sense balance wise :\ 

[Dollmaker]

9 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I think Wendy and Wigfrid show us we don't need a character to be harder to be more powerful or interesting XD

imo ~ game balance and design are not connected.  You can have a character that is risk reward right along side a character who is more direct brute force and its okay - afterall Wanda and oldWolf coexisted in the game and despite some complaints they both had their points of strength and weakness.  imo Wanda is what was missing that suddenly made oldWolf make sense balance wise :\ 

Could also mention that people like the personalities of the character in question, thats like over half the reason Wendy is so popular, even before her refresh when she was pretty mediocre. 

Speaking of death related stuff, apparently a body appeared near wear i live? well thats a way to start off the morning..., at least it wasnt someone i knew.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Edit: I just found out wanda even starts with 3 watch pieces, to make her utility watches yes very hard indeed

if you just found that means that you dont have experience with it. Isnt as risky as people say but neither is as easy as some people say

if was on my hand i would nerf her to the ground but people here tent to forget that there is players without 4k hours of play time and 5k hours of watching streams and guides

her downside might not compensate all her upsides but if wanda is op then all characters all since they dont have a downside that blocks healing while receiving damage

39 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Because harder characters are fun. Character "balance" has shown that how hard a character is has no impact on how powerful they are. Wanda and Wormwood are some of the best characters in the game but difficult. Wendy is one of the best characters in the game and also the easiest. Warly and Wickerbottom offer large advantages, but you don't actually need to play as them to get them, and Wickerbottom is pretty easy as well. 

A better question to ask is, "What is the point of having easier characters if they suck?". Do you honestly think that the majority of characters should be useless and only exist only as a temporary stopgap for people to use when they're new then abandon once they get better? Servers with experienced players should always be full of nothing but the same 3 characters?

????????

[Mike23Ua]

5 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i mean, what is the point of having harder characters if those cant reward the player with more impactful perks than easier characters?

 

I think this is the absolute wrong kind of mindset to have with DST,

1- because it’s a Multiplayer game.

2- because every character with the exception to DLC one’s are unlocked and selectable from the very start.

3- most people will pick a character because that characters personality & playstyle just “click” with them, regardless of how easy/hard that characters meant to be.

4- I also think character skins can influence this as well: I had no interest at all in playing Wickerbottom OR Wolfgang until they got the Bewitching & Wolfman skins: I mean I played them before… so I wasn’t brand new to them, but: I didn’t play them as often till they got fancy new designs.

So yes Character choice can also be entirely dependent upon skins: I started playing WES when I realized I could turn him into the Joker with Green Hair & purple suit and everything, I continued to play Wes when I could turn him into a Christmas Elf, But Wes’s pre-Rework playstyle was just darned boring… and that’s what his Rework fixed- in some peoples eyes that made him less of a challenge character and easier to play as: But to other people- it gave a character they had cool skins for unique gameplay that lets them feel like your not just picking worse Wilson.

Wilson being the starter character is also an outdated thought that needs to be axed, because reasons 1, 2, 3 & 4.

Give the guy a unique playstyle, some unique crafts or something that says “Wilson is fun to play as..” and isn’t just “Default” anymore.

Hell if you want a “Default” Klei can just add a server Gen option that strips characters of all abilities, gives them the same HP, Sanity, Hunger- And then the only difference between picking Wes or Wendy is purely in the skins available to them.

Its time that Klei moved away from the Single-Player mindset & let them all shine in their own rights inside a Multiplayer game.

Wolfgang I feel his rework is “Meh” and the reason WHY it’s so Meh is they stripped away some of his perks and locked some of the ones he already had behind burning through resources and literally standing completely still..

If they’re going to remove his speed and focus on MIGHT then, no offense to Klei but they need to portray what it truly means to Feel Mighty.

I suggested things like different lifting animations, different Throwing Distances for each of his 3 forms (yes you will be able to throw dumbells in Puny/Average forms now.. but the FURTHER and FASTER you throw them depends on how much Might you have.)

People are disappoint with Wolfgang’s rework because outside of punching enemies that don’t really “feel” mighty and since Klei removed his speed altogether and removed his faster hunger drain: All that is left is MIGHT… and in my opinion: They should double down on that & portray what it means to be mighty.

In comparison: I had a ton of fun playing as the Incredible Hulk in Marvels Avengers, snatching the ground out from under my feet or picking up the nearest enemy and throwing them at another enemy.. that let me feel like I was the Incredible Hulk..

But as of right now: The character I’m playing in this game (DST) does not feel like the character I watched in the animated short or I see in their vignettes & that deeply upsets me.

I don’t guess this post has much point, sorry for rambling on.. just felt like sharing my opinion.

[Dollmaker]

5 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if you just found that means that you dont have experience with it. Isnt as risky as people say but neither is as easy as some people say

if was on my hand i would nerf her to the ground but people here tent to forget that there is players without 4k hours of play time and 5k hours of watching streams and guides

her downside might not compensate all her upsides but if wanda is op then all characters all since they dont have a downside that blocks healing while receiving damage

I think the most op thing is her Revival Watch (dont remember the name) it has a surprisingly low CD.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

38 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I think Wendy and Wigfrid show us we don't need a character to be harder to be more powerful or interesting XD

imo ~ game balance and design are not connected.  You can have a character that is risk reward right along side a character who is more direct brute force and its okay - afterall Wanda and oldWolf coexisted in the game and despite some complaints they both had their points of strength and weakness.  imo Wanda is what was missing that suddenly made oldWolf make sense balance wise :\ 

walter shows us what happens when a character has impactful downside and weak upsides

usually people, outside of masochist and challenge, dont enjoy using wilsons with taxes

[HowlVoid]

13 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if you just found that means that you dont have experience with it. Isnt as risky as people say but neither is as easy as some people say

if was on my hand i would nerf her to the ground but people here tent to forget that there is players without 4k hours of play time and 5k hours of watching streams and guides

her downside might not compensate all her upsides but if wanda is op then all characters all since they dont have a downside that blocks healing while receiving damage

I don't think people want to nerf Wanda, it's just that in comparison it doesn't make sense for Wolfgang to have been nerfed. 

Wolfgang having been nerfed so that other characters can shine doesn't make sense because they already do.

Wolfgang having been nerfed because they don't want him to do what he already does but better, doesn't make sense because that has been the trope with every character that has been reworked so far.

Klei is calling it a nerf, I just think he's boring.

Wigfrid is very much only a combat character but her rework in comparison is a lot more fleshed out. She has a banger soundtrack, she has milestones throughout her gameplay, and she has damage and tools that are available from the start and are relevant (helmet) to the end game. 

I think everyone is just a little salty that Webber, Wendy, and Wigfrid are doing what they have doing but better, but suddenly that's not ok for Wolfgang.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Dollmaker said:

I think the most op thing is her Revival Watch (dont remember the name) it has a surprisingly low CD.

her most op thing is late game relativistic speed and how stupid is her weapon

reviving each 2 minutes isnt op when you can stockpile mest effigies and LGA which are way better for reviving

1 minute ago, HowlVoid said:

don't think people want to nerf Wanda, it's just that in comparison it doesn't make sense for Wolfgang to have been nerfed. 

agree but doesnt have sense neither to compare a charcater with no downsides with a charcater filled with downsides

[IanKSB91]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

walter shows us what happens when a character has impactful downside and weak upsides

usually people, outside of masochist and challenge, dont enjoy using wilsons with taxes

I mean I think characters that aren't the most effective at doing things just have to be fun enough to motivate people to play them, at least that's why I play Walter and Winona (and why I like character swap in long wolds)

[Dollmaker]

5 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I think everyone is just a little salty that Webber, Wendy, and Wigfrid are doing what they have doing but better, but suddenly that's not ok for Wolfgang.

I think the problem comes with how effective each character was in general before their refreshes, Wolfgang was easily far ahead than all 3 of them, he was already really strong.

 

[Dextops]

8 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

walter shows us what happens when a character has impactful downside and weak upsides

usually people, outside of masochist and challenge, dont enjoy using wilsons with taxes

but walter is a higher tier character and easily avoided downsides 

[Dollmaker]

Just now, Dextops said:

but walter is a higher tier character and easily avoided downsides 

Kinda yeah, one of his downsides has next to no impact outside of a boss, (cause Bees are so pathetically weak and easy to kill, but have criminally hight HP)

And if you know about Sanity food, regaining Sanity isnt much of an issue, his only real downside is screwing up and getting hit, specially during boss fights since if you arent careful you will get swarmed by Shadow Creatures. 

[Yuuko]

28 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

walter shows us what happens when a character has impactful downside and weak upsides

usually people, outside of masochist and challenge, dont enjoy using wilsons with taxes

Yeah, Walter is an interesting character who is just too weak.  His slingshot doesn't live up to the hype.  newWolf mightiness doesn't either :\ it makes picking these characters a hard choice when you know it won't be worth it.  At least oldWes was a "challenge" character so you picked it knowing your upside was a more difficult world.  I doubt anyone looks at Wolfgang and thinks "Yeah, a strongman, I bet I'm going to have to stand still for minutes just to do the same thing as everyone else." lol

[Dollmaker]

9 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I doubt anyone looks at Wolfgang and thinks "Yeah, a strongman, I bet I'm going to have to stand still for minutes just to do the same thing as everyone else." lol

I mean with a good Gym you only stay there for a couple of seconds, and the Gembell helps you keep the Mightiness from dropping.

Besides Mighty Form lasts nearly a day. 

[Mysterious box]

32 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I think everyone is just a little salty that Webber, Wendy, and Wigfrid are doing what they have doing but better, but suddenly that's not ok for Wolfgang.

I still feel like Webber is too much of a power fantasy

35 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

walter shows us what happens when a character has impactful downside and weak upsides

usually people, outside of masochist and challenge, dont enjoy using wilsons with taxes

I find Walter a interesting case of fun but weak

[Yuuko]

26 minutes ago, Dollmaker said:

I mean with a good Gym you only stay there for a couple of seconds, and the Gembell helps you keep the Mightiness from dropping.

Besides Mighty Form lasts nearly a day. 

The time it takes to get that set up completely negates an entire day of being mighty IF you utilize mighty for the entire day, as evidenced by my dfly speed run Wolfgang vs Wigfrid vs Willow.  Wolfgang with his mightiness tied Willow, and handily lost to Wigfrid.  Pumping a weight once takes as much time as Wanda using her ageless once, yet she only needs to rewind twice a day to maintain form / not die, while he has to pump a gembell 13 times, and he still has to maintain his belly, AND his gembells have durability lol

[HowlVoid]

15 minutes ago, Dollmaker said:

I mean with a good Gym you only stay there for a couple of seconds, and the Gembell helps you keep the Mightiness from dropping.

Besides Mighty Form lasts nearly a day. 

That's my gripe with the new meter, a couple seconds adds up and you only use up the full day for bosses 

Enemies can be really far apart so you don't spend a full day working out, other wise you spend a lot of time feeling dumb spending your mightyness walking from one place to another. And if you don't go for the full meter then you have to do a lot of few second workouts. And if it's REALLY far apart then you have to pull yourself out of wimpy which is just so frustrating. 

You have to this over, and over, and over, again. 

Meter goes up and down and up and down, it feels like I'm constantly struggling with it. And I HAVE TO struggle with it because other wise I have no perks which is crazy to me.

The new meter is not intuitive for sporadic encounters. There is no way to "save" your meter for the next encounter which would solve this for me. 

[Dollmaker]

4 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

The time it takes to get that set up completely negates an entire day of being mighty IF you utilize mighty for the entire day, as evidenced by my speed run Wolfgang vs Wigfrid vs Willow.  Wolfgang with his mightiness tied Willow, and handily lost to Wigfrid.  Pumping a weight once takes as much time as Wanda using her ageless once, yet she only needs to rewind twice a day to maintain form / not die, while he has to pump a gembell 13 times.

I mean, speedrun isnt that good of an argument mate, the reason Wolfgang was so good was because of his speed.