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Fast way to Melt Ice?


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The sleet wheat is taking longer than expected to mutate enough exuberancy seeds. The most straightforward solution to this for me would be to melt the copious amounts of ice on the surface to continue sustaining my existing bristle berries.

Anyone got a good design for melting ice fast? My first idea would be to have smart storage bins (they're made of metal) inside tepidized water.

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The fastest way to melt ice is to build buildings out of it: ice sculptures and temp shift plates.  This is because buildings have an effective heat capacity 1/5th of what would be expected based on their mass and SHC.

 

Also, smart storage bins won't significantly speed up the melting of their contents. The ice inside them doesn't directly exchange heat with the bin. Thermally, a building's contents acts as if it were a separate pile of debris at the same location as the building. (Except for pipes which do interact directly with their contents, and some buildings which are "insulated" whose contents don't thermally interact at all)

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5 hours ago, ghkbrew said:

The fastest way to melt ice is to build buildings out of it: ice sculptures and temp shift plates.  This is because buildings have an effective heat capacity 1/5th of what would be expected based on their mass and SHC.

 

Also, smart storage bins won't significantly speed up the melting of their contents. The ice inside them doesn't directly exchange heat with the bin. Thermally, a building's contents acts as if it were a separate pile of debris at the same location as the building. (Except for pipes which do interact directly with their contents, and some buildings which are "insulated" whose contents don't thermally interact at all)

Why smart storage bins wouldn't help?

I've used them to cool things down and they worked very well - placed on top of a metal tile that had cooling under it. Same thing should work for heating.
From what I checked using normal storage bin didn't have that kind of effect only smart one. This might need some more testing.

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I have a lot of experience with ice, since I played a lot the Rhyme map. Storage bins, works eventually but take a lot of time, building temp shift plates in a warm environment (above 10-20°C) melts ice very quickly but it requires huge amount of duplicant labor and hence a lot of time, especially if your duplicants don't have really high building skill. Rails looping through a warm environment is the best solution imo: once the system is set up, ice melts relatively quickly and it does not consume a lot of duplicant labor.

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3 hours ago, Orzelek said:

Why smart storage bins wouldn't help?

Because the ice and the bin it's inside of don't exchange heat.  Try putting hot or cold materials in a bin in vacuum.  The temperature of the bin won't change.

The way the game simulates material inside a building is the same as for material in a debris pile.  It only exchanges heat with the tile it's in and to a smaller extent the tile it's sitting on.  The only effect the building it's contained in has is increasing the thermal mass of the system and acting as a very weak temp shift plate spreading out temperature in the tiles it touches.

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It's not clear if this is debris or tiles of ice.

If it's debris then tempshift plates is the way to go, trian up your dupes in construction at the same time.

If it's tiles of ice heat up water to 80C with a liquid tepidizer and pump it over the ice tiles with a liquid vent.

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Since you lose half the mass of ice by mining it into debris, my favorite way of melting large patches of ice is this:

Dig under the ice mass, and build a Liquid Tepidizer and flood the area with a reasonable pressure of pure hydrogen. In ONI heat rises in gas (as long as it's one type of gas, density based swapping takes precedent over temperature based swapping) and hydrogen gas is a reasonable heat transfer agent. The ice will melt from the bottom up and drain to the bottom for easy pumping. I find this is more convenient than melting from the top down, where the heat rises works against you, and it's more annoying to pump the water since it's not all just draining to the pump.

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2 hours ago, ghkbrew said:

Because the ice and the bin it's inside of don't exchange heat.  Try putting hot or cold materials in a bin in vacuum.  The temperature of the bin won't change.

The way the game simulates material inside a building is the same as for material in a debris pile.  It only exchanges heat with the tile it's in and to a smaller extent the tile it's sitting on.  The only effect the building it's contained in has is increasing the thermal mass of the system and acting as a very weak temp shift plate spreading out temperature in the tiles it touches.

Hmm so in theory it shouldn't matter if it's a smart storage or normal storage bin and as long as you cool down tile below it and gas on it it should cool down with same rate?
I guess that some editor science might be needed or I'll check it on next playthrough.

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44 minutes ago, Orzelek said:

Hmm so in theory it shouldn't matter if it's a smart storage or normal storage bin and as long as you cool down tile below it and gas on it it should cool down with same rate?

yup

44 minutes ago, Orzelek said:

I guess that some editor science might be needed

I just did a trial to double check:

951519855_Screenshotfrom2021-10-0409-20-13.thumb.png.fff8ed776233b696826c8443b664f7a6.png

Each room started with 1000kg of -20C ice everything else is at 20C, including the million tons of diamond at the top of the room as a heat source.

After 5 cycles, the ice in both bins was -14.5c and the ice on the floor was -14.6C. So having the bins does seem to help slightly in this setup, presumably because it helps spread out the heat from the top of the room.

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16 minutes ago, ZnSstr said:

What about looping your ice with rails on a cool steam ven, never tried it tho, but it should work.

using rail is not a good idea because dig the ice he loses the 50% off mass

if he want use that method he could just make some polluted watter loop or something like that

he could use rail as well but not with ice self

 

but that is slow. he wants fast

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What I would do is dig under the ice patch and build metal tiles out of a high TC material like steel or aluminum. Then, heat the tiles up with hot liquid piped through them in radiant pipes.

The hot tiles will melt the ice above them into liquid. The liquid water will then take more heat and spread it upwards into the above ice tiles.

Eventually, all the ice is melted into a big cool bath. Collect at your leisure.

This may not work well if the ice isn't 1,000 kg tiles: eventually you'll get a gap between the liquid water and the remaining ice (that will be vacuum) and no more heat transfer will occur. Example: 500kg ice tiles. First row melts, you have a single row of liquid water in contact with higher ice, all good. Then the second row melts, and now youve got 1 row with 1,000kg of water in each tile and a row above it of vacuum.

If that's your issue, just pour hot water on top of your ice patch, itll eventually all melt downwards.

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On 10/4/2021 at 2:42 AM, Primalflower said:

... Anyone got a good design for melting ice fast?...

I have not built this, but I would build stacked rockets to melt ice.

Like 5 Petroleum rockets stacked on to each other, to melt 1 ice block at the bottom on liftoff. I just started fresh again, it will take me thousands of cycles to build this idea as I always build a "proper" base first...If Klei doesn`t bork my savegame up till then, I may can get back on this in a year or so with a screenshot. :lemo: Really fast :anonymous::lol:

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I haven’t seen anyone say this yet so I’ll add that if you “entomb” any kind of debris it directly will conduct to the tile.

This can be highly effective and automated with a steel mechanized airlock plus a few temp-shift plates.

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