Recent change of the Fire spreading/Heat damage mechanic?

[Mike23Ua]

I don’t know what this is.. and I don’t care to know- I am a firm believer that if I bring enough Kaboom to a fight I can down ANY and all bosses.. the trick? knowing exactly how much Kaboom to bring with you and where/how to distribute it. 

 

[Captain_Rage]

It still involves risk. Plus the fact the player is engaging in combat. Resources will be wasted if the explosion does not hit the boss. The whole thing can backfire and the player can perish along with the blast. Call it high risk, high reward, for a lack of better phrasing. If you plan ahead and secure demise of the boss by bringing lots of gunpowder you have had to invest in something.

I won't even compare that to torching a mini-sign and turning on a Ice Flingomatic followed by standing afk half a screen away outside the reach of the raid boss. This can be repeated infinitely each time you want to defeat boss. Really, it involves zero stakes. The cost is 2-4 glommer goop for refueling the Flingomatics. The boss battle is reduced to nothing. Why that might be a bad thing was already explained in the previous post.

 

PS.

Maybe Scorching Sunfish can be used to kill the Bee Queen? If the Bee Queen can be kept in place. Patent pending.

You would only have to deliver the coup de grace to save the loot from burning.

 

↑ Serious comment.

[Guille6785]

45 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

PS.

Maybe Scorching Sunfish can be used to kill the Bee Queen? If the Bee Queen can be kept in place. Patent pending.

You would only have to deliver the coup de grace to save the loot from burning.

 

↑ Serious comment.

ok but how

[HowlVoid]

2 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

ok but how

You take the sun fish and then you-

Spoiler

 

 

[Yuuko]

6 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Do you think the devs intend for things to die within seconds to fire? 

 

Considering they designed the game, thus the game does what they "intended," yes?

Klei is on record supporting emergent gameplay.  Look it up.

That's kinda the odd thing about these "bug fix" nerfs.  I wish Klei would be a bit more transparent about them instead of hiding them away.  Its like they're trying to pretend these aren't things people do so no one will notice, but as Guille said - why don't they just remove BQueen collision?  Or hey, how about make her immune to fire O_O which ya know, they could, because they control the code...  Especially since BQueen is already immune to fire in spring XD so really they could do that if they wanted XD

What's kinda cool about this is my older oven still works perfectly.  I think Guille said their group already has work arounds for the oven too...  Makes me wonder why they're even trying...  Its almost like there is 1 rogue dev at Klei who HATES these things, but b/c Klei supports emergent gameplay they can only pass very small nerfs instead <_<

Anyway I for one do NOT play this game to be WolfgangCombatSimulator.  The more Klei hits these things the less fun I get in the game :\  At least my old oven works.  Probably ways to use the same solid meta oven with some tweaks to workaround the new mechanics too.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Considering they designed the game, thus the game does what they "intended," yes?

Recent trends tell me otherwise.

1. Klaus can no longer have his loot shuffled.

2. Sleeping and gunpowder were nerfed to keep bosses from being one shotted.

3. Beefalos no longer benefit from chilipowder.

None of these changes have been reverted and I'm sure there are some I'm missing.

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Klei is on record supporting emergent gameplay.  Look it up.

Not sure I'd consider an exploit that destroys all the work they put into making a boss engaging and challenging, "gameplay".

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

That's kinda the odd thing about these "bug fix" nerfs.  I wish Klei would be a bit more transparent about them instead of hiding them away.  Its like they're trying to pretend these aren't things people do so no one will notice, but as Guille said - why don't they just remove BQueen collision?  Or hey, how about make her immune to fire O_O which ya know, they could, because they control the code...  Especially since BQueen is already immune to fire in spring XD so really they could do that if they wanted XD

Fire farms added nothing to the games core.

I'm not a programmer but I'll assume collision may serve other important roles. Perhaps they don't want it going through players and mobs. There could be plenty of their own personal reasons to do so. For one, and this is off the top of my head, when trying to get her to engage with deerclops, I will try to get her to become stuck behind it and receive an attack . Allowing beequeen to go through mobs would make this far harder and possibly break using followers (bunnymen/merms) as shields.

Perhaps it simply does not look natural. There does not need to be a conspiracy involved. Making her immune to fire is extreme and would render using fire as chip damage useless. 

You're talking about a mechanic that made beequeen a complete joke. No one needed to work for the prize at the end of the tunnel. Yes, it broke the games balance.

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

What's kinda cool about this is my older oven still works perfectly.  I think Guille said their group already has work arounds for the oven too...  Makes me wonder why they're even trying...

You found a loophole. Its like saying, "my city covered a pothole, but there's plenty left. I wonder why they bother trying."

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

  Its almost like there is 1 rogue dev at Klei who HATES these things, but b/c Klei supports emergent gameplay they can only pass very small nerfs instead <_<

Doubt it. They would have been reverted if it was a pressing matter. The devs know what's in their own game. 

There is still the possibility that it could be reverted, we'll see. 

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Anyway I for one do NOT play this game to be WolfgangCombatSimulator. 

You don't need Wolfgang to kill beequeen. I can easily solo it as Wormwood.

There are tons of strategies to kill her in an engaging format.

Fire farms were literally a kill switch. Not sure how you don't see the problem to be honest.

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

The more Klei hits these things the less fun I get in the game :\ 

Maybe for you. Tough luck I guess.

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

At least my old oven works.  Probably ways to use the same solid meta oven with some tweaks to workaround the new mechanics too.

Good luck. I get the sense you think you're rubbing something in my face here? As I've said, I don't care what people do in their personal games. If you want to kill beequeen with a kill switch, you do you.

I praise this change because it helps with the longetivity of the game for beginners. I can tell you from experience that when I become frustrated at bosses in games I look for similar kill switches rather than actually try and get better. Then I rely on them and either become bored or look for/want similar exploits on other bosses. Had this problem in Terraria, and it kept me as a horrible player that could only rely on crutches (until I got good).

Something I also see happening is when said players eventually get their kill switches removed they get angry at the developers. They blame them even though its their own fault for relying on such methods in the first place, kinda how you're doing now. As games become more popular it is better to remove these exploits early.

[Yuuko]

Quote

(until I got good).

At what?  I don't play DST as a combat sim.  I've played many "I don't attack anything" runs, disable my attack command and go!  I'm really glad when I find a game where you can play that way, its not very common.  So many games literally FORCE you into combat.  Making the world take care of its self through systems, exploits, etc is much more fun then running around f'ing bosses to death.  I'll probably never bother farming an army of bunnymen to take out bee queen either, that is such a boring method.

I've seen people snag deerclops into the fight, looks fun, but is actually way MORE work than just picking Wolfgang and using pan flutes.  If you're going to fight her, why fight her slowly?  Maybe its because that's your choice, just like making an auto-kill engine is mine.  No one is forcing either of us to pick Wolfgang even though he's quicker then eithers of these other methods...  So why pile on praise because an optional method of play that you don't enjoy - but has zero effect on your game - is nerfed.  And not just nerfed, but shadow nerfed.  No announcement "Hey, we're changing this thing" just blip and gone, go to play and it doesn't work anymore.  thx Klei <_<  Getting harder to trust you guys as these patches keep coming...

[dish-order man]

17 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

This lad made a pretty comprehensive analysis about subject at hand, and his conclusions:

Source.

thanks for quoting~

I think Klei want to increase the risk of using fire farm.

In previous versions, a device burning Combustibles cyclically could be made due to a fixed smoldering time.

But current version can't achieve a fully automatic cyclically combustion device. Klei doesn't remove the fire farm to kill bosses, they are trying to let players manually set fire in the device to increase the risk of the whole device and increase interaction.

just establish a fire farm and stay still faraway form bosses waiting them to die is so boring in previous version. current version require you to set fire yourself, this increase interaction of whole fire farm device.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Now we need a fix for AG, shadow bosses and FW

One thing is cheesing and other getting inmortality for almost free 

Imagine complaining because a company fixes exploits that destroy the hard work put into the desing of bosses

For people that doesnt like to fight there are still a lot of methods or just dont fight since the game doesnt push you to get op raid boss loot

[QuartzBeam]

I, for one, welcome any changes that serve no purpose besides screwing over solo players.

[Milordo]

13 hours ago, chirsg said:

It's a bit like my opinion on wildfires. Don't remove them, but add feasible ways to combat them, not reduce the inventive ways that people solve these problems.

Agreed on everything, especially on wildfires. I lost all hopes and removed them every single time in a world, since it's a bad design almost as the old disease. 

Waiting for summer and wildfires rework  

[MondayNight]

I consider I got my comprehensive answer thanks to dish-order man's analysis on what&how was changed to the fire spreading mechanic. Like always, seems it didn't take long and discussion slipped into "moral high-ground" off-topic, which - once more - was beside the point. As stated in OP, this began from witnessing a certain discussion between people from a certain server. I pass no judgement of pro-or-against such methods. I find them interesting, but in the end from personal pov is a tedious setup from start, requiring the movement of mobs via freezing and sleep. More-so, there are simpler, more direct and effective methods for BQ takedown without flimsy layouts that any noob can destroy just-like-that, aside simple combat (kite/tank, 0 other gimmick involved). I play exclusively pubs, hence environment is tenfold more hectic and most elaborate contraptions, sooner-rather-than-later, get destroyed. So that's that. Ty for reading and info. Cheers!