The next update season should be focused on porting SW and HAM to DST

[Darkpixel797]

With Return of Them finished, the question is what should be in the next update season when it eventually rolls around? In my opinion, the next DST update season should be for porting most of the Shipwrecked and Hamlet content to DST.

Why?

    1.    Having to pick between playing DS and DST for content reasons is less than ideal, the real reasons to play DS over DST should be if you don’t want lag or prefer adventure mode and character unlocking as opposed to endless survival and weaving. Also, DS isn't updated anymore so to leave all that awesome content behind with it is a shame.
    2.    You added seafaring to the game last update season but at the moment the only big thing its used for is the lunar island, it has so much more potential than for just that.
    3.    The Tropical Experience mod proved that its possible to fit all of it in one world quite comfortably, but it lacks the Klei level of polish along with having some other issues, for example: they added the op shipwrecked boat system instead of adapting shipwrecked to the dst boat system, and it doesn’t have the unsailable clouds around the hamlet islands making it possible to sail to places that you shouldn’t  (for example pugalisk island and bfb island)
    4.    RoG was released in 2014, and was ported to DST in 2015. Shipwrecked was released in 2015/2016, and Hamlet in 2018/2019 (the slashes are depending whether you consider the early access version or the full release), and now it is 2021, so if we use the RoG port as an example they've spent enough time as DS exclusives.
    5.    Such a large amount of content being added in what would be the most ambitious update season yet and will generate a ton of hype and attention for the game. And hype means revenue, especially with 6 more characters to sell skins for (it would also be smart to make fan-favorite wilbur into a “own-the-dlc-or-weave” character like wormwood but with shipwrecked instead of hamlet). In addition, all this new content would come at less of a time investment than it would to make completely original content, specifically in the asset department.

That was why you should, and if you're convinced you can stop reading here. But I’ll also include some ideas as to how to resolve apparent design conflicts below, just to prove that elegant solutions are not hard to come up with:
    1.    No more shipwrecked boats, everything should be adapted to DST’s boat system, all the different types of boats should instead just be different materials for DST boats that change the boat’s properties like momentum, HP, and maybe size. Any boat upgrades like sails and cannons should be placeable structures on DST boats. (sails are already placeable in dst so you just gotta add the remaining sail types from shipwrecked as placeables) (for cannons you should need to load a cannonball before firing to prevent opness (use gunpowder and iron to craft a cannonball)) The one boat that would break a few conventions of DST boats would be Wailani’s surfboard. It still would need to be controlled like a DST boat: it would still have momentum and need to be paddled (albeit with your hands since its a surfboard you don’t need an oar), but it only has space for one and can’t be built on. In addition it can’t spring leaks, it just takes durability damage instead, because its a surfboard of course. Finally it can be picked up unlike other boats. Woodlegs would no longer have his own unique boat to craft but instead have access to the seafaring tab right off the bat without a think tank (kind of like Wickerbottom and science recipes) and have a few sea-related unique crafts. (He'd still have his hat and his special sanity loss conditions though)
    2.    Waves just push objects and boats in the direction that they are moving, suspicious bubble whale hunts should give you more time to do them, given the slower and harder to control DST boats.
    3.    When adding the hamlet islands, only make what would be the spawn island in singleplayer DS surrounded by sailable water, make the rest surrounded by impassible clouds so you have to use the proper routes to travel between them.
    4.    BFB should only be summonable with the bird whistle, and only follow and pick up the player who blew it. If you think the feet would be an issue (like how you didn't add bigfoot), you can have it not land but instead scoop you up while hovering (aka add wing sounds and visuals like its still flying)
    5.    When on the shipwrecked islands, its seasons should apply, but they should be the same length as the main ones and thus occur at the same time as their corresponding season (not only for balance but to simplify programming, as internally you wouldn't need to add extra seasons just change the effects of the season based on location): autumn > mild, winter > hurricane, spring > monsoon, summer > dry. The same should occur on the hamlet islands: autumn > temperate, winter > (create new season to occur on hamlet islands during winter), spring > humid, summer > lush. Weather effects only occur on/ in the vicinity of (if sailing) their respective landmasses. Hay fever is a semi-exception, you can only catch it on the hamlet islands but even if you leave it still takes 2 days after you leave for it to wear off.
    6.    Volcano only erupts in local area, aporkalypse can be temporarily avoided by leaving or not traveling to the hamlet islands, but you still need to stop it if you want anything from the hamlet islands as it will continue until someone comes to the hamlet islands to stop it (aka how it works in hamlet)
    7.    Swinesbury should spawn more than one slanty shanty (the amount is up to you) but to build additional shanties you still need the key to the city.

Thank you for reading and I hope you consider letting us experience the awesome content in these expansions with our friends!

[JaxckLl]

I agree in principal, but at the same time I don't find a direct transfer of content to be ideal. A translation instead, which updates mechanics for multiplayer. Like how the new boating mechanic encourages team play. As to your reasons,

1. It's fine that DS & DST are separate games. There's definitely some things I wouldn't want to see ported over (the Aporkalypse, the tiny dungeon levels from Hamlet, Machetes from Shipwrecked).

2. There's also Crab King, Malbatross, Sea Stacks, Salt Stacks, and Fishing, but yeah I do agree that we need more Islands.

3. If there was ever a time to add a third world to DST, it would be to enable Tropical play.

4. DST has also received more bosses and nearly as much content in the same time period.

5. Sure

As to your suggested changes,

1. Agreed, this is a sensible method for reconciling the two boating mechanics. However I wouldn't port Walani, or at least not with her Surfboard.

2. Abslutely.

3. Disagree, mainly because the dungeons of Hamlet don't work with multiplayer.

4. Disagree, there's a reason content like that has stayed in singleplayer.

5. New seasons would be the best reason to implement a new Tropical world type.

6. Aporkalypse only works in singleplayer.

7. The house mechanic probably wouldn't work with multiplayer. Indeed all of Hamlet's unique features are clearly designed around being singleplayer exclusive (though it would be nice to get Wilba as a playable character in DST).

[Darkpixel797]

Of course it would be changed for multiplayer, like the boat reconcile I mentioned as well as the normal boss HP increase, I didn't mean port it over completely as is, balance changes for multiplayer are part and parcel.

Even if I think personally they could be tweaked to fit multiplayer, I can see how aporcalypse and bfb could be bad for multiplayer (still want a way to get ro bin and the scepter and to fight the ancient herald tho), but I don't see an issue with the hamlet dungeons, the ruins already in DST are pretty similar in gameplay style.

Why wouldn't the houses work in multiplayer? if anything in multiplayer there would be more of a purpose to house decorating, showing off to your neighbors.

[Masked Koopa]

Aporkalypse may sound like a bad idea, but the game also has moonstorms now, which can make things pretty impossible for new players if it decides to happen in the wrong biome. If anything, they would just have to remove it occuring naturally, or perhaps make it only occur on day 500 or something.

[QuartzBeam]

12 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

Aporkalypse may sound like a bad idea, but the game also has moonstorms now, which can make things pretty impossible for new players if it decides to happen in the wrong biome. If anything, they would just have to remove it occuring naturally, or perhaps make it only occur on day 500 or something.

New players and moonstorms are kinda mutually exclusive.

[Masked Koopa]

50 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

New players and moonstorms are kinda mutually exclusive.

Not on pubs, which is one of the concerns you'd have regarding including an end of the world event.

[JaxckLl]

Here, let me expand on my comment from earlier.

Why these mechanics are best left in Shipwrecked/Hamlet

• Machete. We already have an abundance of tools with a dearth of uses. The Pitchfork, Hammer, and Razor all pale in importance compared to the Pick, Axe, and Shovel. While we could certainly add another tool, I feel it would require some redistribution of existing uses and more high-end combined tools for effective late game inventory management. The Razor & Machete could probably be the same tool and it would be great to have a Pitchfork/Hammer hybrid for efficient late game base building. The reason to add a Machete would be to change up a Tropical world's gameplay. In such a situation I would probably prevent trees from creating stumps, or allow the Axe or Hammer to be used on Stumps. That way we still only have three core tools, with the Machete replacing the Shovel most of the time.
• Walani, specifically her surfboard. This should be obvious, but her solo-sailing mechanic is fundamentally at odds with the character of sailing in DST. Rather I would reframe the Surfboard bonus as a copy of Wurt's "no drowning" bonus with the addition of Walani being a faster user of ship-board items (such as Anchors, Sails, Steering Wheels, and Oars). It *might* be prudent to give her some other craftables that encourage/enable ocean going (perhaps she can also harvest Barnacles by hand without upsetting Sea Stacks and can flick Box Cutters off without needing to damage them).
• Hamlet dungeons & houses. This should be obvious, there's not enough space for multiple players especially if they draw in additional mobs.  Imagine if three players all have a follower and then each summons guards. That's a minimum of thirteen entities in that tiny space. If a Tropical map was added, I would also consider adding Tropical caves which reimagine Hamlet content for DST. Houses could be done in a similar fashion to the seasonal event buildings, larger constructions that require multiple surrounding tiles but are effectively just placed on the ground. "Interiors" would thus be blocks of special terrain with a desk for the Pig worker and some stands for selling goods. This implementation would have the advantage of removing most of the exploits from the Hamlet houses, since each piece would have to be built by the player.
• Aporkalypse. The parallels with the Moonstone event are not lost, and a reimagining of Aporkalypse as a player-driven triggered event could certainly make it work in DST. However its current implementation as effectively a season is far too much. One way to do it would be to have it function like Nightmare mode, a cyclical system where players are guaranteed respite after a waiting period. Another way would be to have it be a triggered event, most likely part of some larger boss fight. However much of what makes Aporkalypse unique and interesting have already been implemented in DST, in the form of Nightmare mode and the Moonstone event.

I've been playing some vanilla Shipwrecked since my computer is unreliable in this heat wave, and here's some things I'd love to see brought into DST:

• Jellyfish. Semi-passive mobs that fill up the ocean & make it feel alive. Right now the seas of DST are remarkably barren, it would be nice to have some more to do while at sea.
• Poison. Poison in Shipwrecked is very analogous to status conditions in Pokemon. Yes the damage is relevant, but the real kicker is how the effect disrupts your regular attacks. Something along these lines if not a direct port of the existing Poison mechanic would be very welcome in DST.
• Krissures. Flame geysers, need I say more? (all the Willow mains are already wet). This could serve as a super flavourful addition to a new island or set of islands with a volcanic theme, or as an upgraded version of the existing rocky biomes. Magma geysers as a renewable source of boulders would also be super flavourful and potentially allow for greater differentiation with the Mosaic biome's meteors (Glass Meteors when?).
• Pig variants. Bunnymen & Pigmen are remarkably boring critters, despite their ubiquity. It felt like a missed opportunity that Pigmen in particular didn't get a Lunar form.
• Beaches & flooding. Sandbars that flood differently depending on the season would be a superb addition to DST, as each could be a small island that rewards oceangoing and enables oceangoing early.
• Fishermerms. Having some neutral Merms would make it much more manageable to have a Wurt sharing world with other characters. This addition would be along the same lines as Webber's recent update.
• Limpet Rocks reimagined as Barnacle rocks. Instead of making the Barnacles regenerate, I would make smashing these new boulders drop Barnacles, Flint, and Rocks. These Boulders would sometimes wash up on sandbars when they flood in the appropriate season.
• Tar. Player-directed sea-based resources would encourage & reward oceangoing throughout the game in the same way the Lunar Island currently encourages heading to sea before Winter. As it is right now, you usually only head out to specific locations when absolutely necessary rather than staying at sea for an extended period.
• Suspicious Bubbles. Whales are awesome, having sea hunts would massively reward sailing around and could make for some very interesting chase scenarios.
• Swordfish. We currently have several high end weapon options, so adding another wouldn't break anything. Indeed having a renewable high end weapon that doesn't require heading to shore would make it much more viable to just start sailing in the first couple of days with an eye to kill Malbatross & get to the Lunar Island before first Winter.
• Ice Maker. Ice is an essential resource for making Flingomatics & a number of other temperature-managing recipes in Summer. However there is currently no way to produce Ice and no renewable source in that season. This would be a great reward for a new cold-themed boss that can be fought early like Malbatross or Bee Queen.
• Hail storms. Summer is consistently challenging due to heat management & smoldering, but in practice it becomes super easy once you have a Flingo & an Edothermic Fire Pit (or just switch off wildfires cause the mechanic is dumb). There's no weather condition that forces the player out of base, nothing that varies Summer gameplay from day to day. Hailstorms would be flavourful, and could serve as a source of ice while also punishing overuse of Endothermy.
• Additional intermediates, such as Limestone, Sand, and Tar. The balance of DST right now tends to be fairly rote, since the same core resources are needed throughout a playthrough. It would be nice to have some more mid-game resources to require exploration & exploitation of new biomes. An alternative to Silk for crafting Fishing Rods (such as Twine, gathered from a new type of bush) for example would massively open up the experience.

[kilobit]

I think it's best that Shipwrecked and Hamlet stay in normal Don't Starve, but to see more elements of those DLCs (e.g. characters, items, enemies, foods) make their way into DST would be nice

[Alienm]

I agree, hamlet and shipwrecked content would be amazing for DST.

 

I think they should never add a third separate world to the game though  because it would split even more players into different areas, making them not play and work together as much. 

[phobs]

what's the point?, they will spend a lot of time transferring what you can already play,

[Masked Koopa]

14 hours ago, phobs said:

what's the point?, they will spend a lot of time transferring what you can already play,

The combination of existing elements from DST, such as all the ocean content of shipwrecked and DST, as well as the ability to enjoy the singleplayer content with friends. Sailing the ocean, raiding pig ruins with friends or decorating a player house are both a lot of fun in the existing mods that port the shipwrecked and hamlet content, and it would be great to be able to have that experience with fewer caveats and on any pub.

[Keller Max]

I want more sailing.

[Darkpixel797]

On 6/27/2021 at 1:00 PM, JaxckLl said:

Here, let me expand on my comment from earlier.

• Walani, specifically her surfboard. This should be obvious, but her solo-sailing mechanic is fundamentally at odds with the character of sailing in DST. Rather I would reframe the Surfboard bonus as a copy of Wurt's "no drowning" bonus with the addition of Walani being a faster user of ship-board items (such as Anchors, Sails, Steering Wheels, and Oars). It *might* be prudent to give her some other craftables that encourage/enable ocean going (perhaps she can also harvest Barnacles by hand without upsetting Sea Stacks and can flick Box Cutters off without needing to damage them).
• Hamlet dungeons & houses. This should be obvious, there's not enough space for multiple players especially if they draw in additional mobs.  Imagine if three players all have a follower and then each summons guards. That's a minimum of thirteen entities in that tiny space. If a Tropical map was added, I would also consider adding Tropical caves which reimagine Hamlet content for DST. Houses could be done in a similar fashion to the seasonal event buildings, larger constructions that require multiple surrounding tiles but are effectively just placed on the ground. "Interiors" would thus be blocks of special terrain with a desk for the Pig worker and some stands for selling goods. This implementation would have the advantage of removing most of the exploits from the Hamlet houses, since each piece would have to be built by the player.

So the rest of your points make sense but I still disagree with these two.

Wailani: There's gonna be people who wanna go off to the four corners of the earth immediately without messing with any of the main continent stuff, and Wailani would be the choice for those people instead of being forced to rush thinktank to make a plain boat that they don't place anything on and use on their own anyway. I don't see an issue with a starting boat that has most of the negatives of DST Boats (momentum, paddling) but without any of the positives (multiple players, placeable objects), but with a few unique positives of its own (durability instead of leaks, portable)

Hamlet dungeons and Houses: The game is already a clusterf*** no matter how much space you have. It gets hard figuring out what's going on with the number of sprites on the screen. I don't think this has much to do with the size of the area that you are playing in, moreso the number of objects packed together which happens in open spaces as well as closed off spaces.

16 hours ago, phobs said:

what's the point?, they will spend a lot of time transferring what you can already play,

*in a singleplayer game that doesn't have updates anymore

Also it will take less time than adding completely original content as most of the assets can be reused and maybe some of the code too.

[MrBacon]

I'd love a rebalanced port of SW to DST. I don't have much to add though, you guys gave a lot of cool ideas already, but I want to leave a comment so that maybe more people join the discussion and Klei can see that we really want this.

[Mysterious box]

On 6/26/2021 at 5:49 AM, Masked Koopa said:

Not on pubs, which is one of the concerns you'd have regarding including an end of the world event.

With the amount of time needed to trigger the event if you new player chooses to join a world that far in they were going to die anyway.

[JJ0264]

Walani Rework Idea: stats : 200 hg, 200 sn, 120 hp

+ Surfboard (Walani only): 1 board, 2 glommer goo - direct port (1.5 sanity per/min in Walani inventory + 3 while riding)

+ Hand Towel (Share): 1 beard hair, 3 beefalo hair - 10 uses, dry's 20 points of wetness

 

+ Soap Maker Machine (Portable Seasoning Station but with nap-sacks): 4 boards, 2 glommer goo, 4 gold

Soap Mix: 1 glands, 3 honey

each Soap bomb needs = 1 hand towel, 1 soap mix, 1 value fruit = 2 soap bombs

 

Banana -  completely immune to sanity/insanity while in the circle (eat all the green shroom you want with deerclops)

Glowberry - explosion put mobs to sleep + slows them down in the circle

Watermelon - explosion gives 33 wetness + in the circle 1 wetness per sec (can water crops)

Durian - explosion cause mobs to attack the nears mob + lose sanity in the circle - 3.3 per min

Pomegranate - explosion give 33 hp + in the circle 1 hp per sec

Dragonfruit - explosion deals 150 fire damage + ticks fire damage in the circle (Willow will love this)

 

+/- All Natural: 25% less from crockpot meals but 25% more from raw/cooked/jerky ingredients

- High Sea Lover: loses sanity on land (- 4.8 per min)

- Extra Sleepy: takes longer to get out of drowsiness & takes less to be put to sleep

[Dextops]

i really hope they don't. i want something new something lore related while adding to the stuff we have instead of moving on we can definitely add elements from them but porting them would not be that profitable and wouldn't be too unique if you want to play hamlet/sw play don't starve and get the dlc, but for now add stuff never seen before into the oceans to make them as different from sw as possible. a jungle biome would be a welcome addition but the whole pig city system im not ecstatic about (merm city on the other hand...) but for now i'd say focus on adding the new instead of bringing in the new when they have the time (also the whole dilemma of whether they would cost money would also be a problem for a multiplayer setting)

[Well-met]

yes but only until Klei has no other plans for the game