Midgame math headaches (trying to be sustainable)

[giygus]

Approaching turn 300, first time ever, and I am trying to make my base fully sustainable before exploring outer space.  All of the numbers and operations are getting confusing, and I figured I would put up my napkin math here to see if there are any flaws in my plan, or suggestions I don't know about or think of.

1. Salt gyeser = 3kg a sec water
2. Two Steam vents at just over .6 Kg a sec = 1.2kg H2O
3. Two Cool Steam, one 1.6; other 1.1 = 2.7kg H2O

So I can count on 6.9kg a sec of water, rounding down, and not factoring in dormancy periods. 600 seconds per cycle * 6.9 = 4100 kg per cycle, rounded down.

I have 16 dupes, so 2 electrolyzers running almost constantly = - 1200kg H2O leaving 2900kg H2O left

I want to feed these dupes stuffed berries.  That will need 872kg, rounding up to 900kg from 2900kg = 2000kg H2O left.

I will also need 515 (rounding up again) PH2O, but I have no PH2O geysers.  So I want to build at least one petroleum generator.

I think I only need to math out the bottom of the oil/petro chain for brevities sake.  So If I build all 3 oil pumps, that will be minus 1800kg H2O, leaving me with at least 200kg H2O per cycle.

2 petro gen running full time would give me 900 kg PH2O per cycle, minus the 515 for pepper plants is 385 PH2O left to run through a sieve, refunding the water.

385 + 200 = 585kg a cycle left over.  None of this factors Natrual Gas generators, which I am planning on building at least 3.  So 3 NG gen. = 120kg PH2O.

So after recycling from generators, I would be left with 705 KG water.  I didn't factor in CO2, because all water can be refunded with a sieve, making a closed loop.  

 

Is there anything I am not seeing here?

[Argelle]

Did you account for the water used in research ?

[wachunga]

Don't forget the ability of dupes to convert water to polluted water. Toilets produce 11.7kg per cycle. Sinks 5kg. Showers 16kg, a bit less if lit. Scrubbing exhalations is 4kg in theory, less than that in reality because dupes don't always breath and co2 can get deleted somewhat. Altogether around 32kg-36kg per cycle, just enough for a dupe's worth of peppernuts. So generators aren't strictly necessary but add some excess capacity for missed showers or whatever. If you do go with petro gens, a boiler makes the oil well -> generator loop water positive.

[giygus]

2 hours ago, Argelle said:

Did you account for the water used in research ?

Most research is done, so I wasn't counting it.  I have plenty of water floating around out there in bogs and salty pools to finish off the rest when I get around to build the telescope.

 

2 hours ago, wachunga said:

Don't forget the ability of dupes to convert water to polluted water

I am using the basic bathroom sieve loop, with excess being sent to one Arbor tree and 2 thimble reeds.  When I first starting thinking about this whole thing, I was going to end the loop, send PW out for degerming/feed peppers.  But after some math, I realized all the PW I need could come from energy production.  And anyway, the end all, be all turned out to be water.  Didn't think that way at first, but here we are.

 

2 hours ago, wachunga said:

If you do go with petro gens, a boiler makes the oil well -> generator loop water positive.

Never built one, but googling around was showing me these, just wasn't sure what the point was.  Now I understand its water.  Will consider it, but I should have enough H2O, and I want to try basic stuff first. 

[babba]

25 minutes ago, giygus said:

Never built one, but googling around was showing me these, just wasn't sure what the point was.  Now I understand its water.  Will consider it, but I should have enough H2O, and I want to try basic stuff first. 

Yeah, with natural gas generators, petroleum generators and arbor tree`s > burning ethanol...one can make lots of water If you need water somewhere in the galaxy, these things can be handy

Need waaaaater, so thirsty !

[Fradow]

4 hours ago, giygus said:

Never built one, but googling around was showing me these, just wasn't sure what the point was.  Now I understand its water.  Will consider it, but I should have enough H2O, and I want to try basic stuff first. 

It's not the only point, though that's a major one:

1. It's water-positive rather than water-negative. This means that instead of feeding it water, you have excess water. It's equivalent to 1/4 of a high producing water geyser (Water/Salt Water/Polluted Water), 1/2 of a medium producing water geyser (Cool Steam Vent, Cool Slush Geyser) and the same as a low producing water geyser (Hot Steam Vent) for a 10kg/s Petroleum loop.
2. It removes Dupe labor from the Oil Refinery, since a boiler don't need any Dupe labor (you still need to relieve backpressure from Oil Wells from time to time).
3. Thanks to 1., it can be made in a self-sustaining loop that never stops: a lot of Petroleum loops aren't even made to be stoppable
4. It's the second easiest large scale-power source in my opinion (behind core-tap Steam Turbines, which are easier but have the drawback of using tons of heat).

Even though I rate them "second easiest large scale-power", they are still a huge infrastructure project, and require quite a bit of knowledge of the game.

[Majestix]

If you have pips, then an easy build that I really like for decent amounts of power and PH2O, as well as some sand, is to have pips plant wild arbor trees. Look up how to do this in a compact way, there are good guides on these forums. Build 4 ethanol distillers with a single square in the middle onto which all the lumber is dropped from a chute, and two conveyor loaders that can reach that square and service the distillers (you might also be able to get away with one loader). The same loaders pick up the polluted dirt from the distillers and send it to a bunch of pokeshells on an island that they can't get away from and that dupes cannot access. Then another loader picks up the sand that the pokeshells produce and sends it somewhere where it's needed. This whole system just creates several useful resources out of nothing and requires very very little dupe input (only occasionally loading lumber into an automatic delivery system). One could even have a sweepy, say, pick up the lumber off the floor and deliver it to where it's supposed to go automatically, but I have never gone that far.

[psusi]

If you have arbor trees, you should be trying to use pips to plant at least most of them wild so you don't have to feed them water, and then you gain water when you burn the ethanol.  I've never bothered building a petrol cooker.  I normally find at least two of either normal water, pwater, or salt water geysers and find that more than enough, even without steam vents.  For that matter, I've still never run into a hot steam vent in the 3+ years I've been playing this game.  Even without the petrol cooker, when you factor in the NG from the oil wells and all of the pwater you get from the NG gen plus petrol gen, it is *almost* water neutral.  I normally don't run oils wells much except for rocket fuel.

[Hjoyn]

If you need water, I'd switch off stuffed berries, as they consume a lot of water. Switch to something that doesn't use water, like mealwood, fried mushrooms, barbeque, or surf and turf, in ascending order of quality. As for pwater, carbon skimmers make that pretty easy to get, as well as petroleum generators being slightly water positive with a petroleum boiler.