Should DST Maxwell have higher sanity regen?

[Knowbodie]

DST Maxwell has a measly 6.66 sanity per minute in comparison to singleplayer Maxwell with 20 sanity per minute, pretty much a third of the original rate.

I've always wondered about this change from DS to DST because Maxwell has a few main perks:

-Being dapper (free sanity regen)

-Shadow puppets

-Being frail as a downside

And since in DST, Maxwell's shadows are mainly used for resource gathering, they will eventually get overshadowed by better methods like Bearger for wood, so you might not find yourself using them as often (at least from my experience, I don't).

That leaves Maxwell with two perks: his sanity regen, which was vastly reduced, and a hefty downside of being frail (don't get me wrong though, being frail is an interesting downside, but in comparison to singeplayer, it feels like the sanity regen isn't really worth it / pulling its weight).

Now I can see some reasons why some would want Maxwell to have a lower sanity regen such as:

-The fact that he should still need some sanity management

-Being able to reap the benefits of insanity

-Possibly to be less vulnerable to Lunacy

-Potential lore reasons (i dunno maybe his suit got wrinkles in it? being dapper is very important to a man like Maxwell...)

 

But considering the fact that Maxwell in DST is able to lock himself into a state of insanity, you wouldn't have to really worry about going sane. It's also easier to go insane in DST with options like a lazy deserter and mushroom planters to farm green caps, or to simply find other methods of gathering fuel (like ruins). Plus, you begin with 6 nightmare fuel from the start, so if you save it for farming fuel early on, you wouldn't need to worry about a shortage of nightmare fuel.

I always felt that playing as Maxwell should revolve more around an easier sanity management at the cost of being frail, but with some extra magic perks alongside. His original sanity allowed him to excel with using a dark sword and/or night armor because of mitigated downsides and recover faster from insanity, which matches his character a lot better in my opinion as the former "shadow king."

And with the addition of the Enlightened Crown, pretty much anyone can mimic being Maxwell, except that Maxwell also loses his shadow perk upon using the crown. It might be good to boost his sanity gain so that he can at least be better at utilizing the perks of the crown.

 

Idk I might be wrong on all of this, but just wanted to hear from everyone else's thoughts.

Spoiler

Also, the Codex Umbra, possibly one of the most powerful items lore-wise, is pretty lame gameplay-wise, so it'd be interesting if Maxwell would be able to uncover more of its secrets as time progresses in a world (possibly in his future rework?). Maybe through this method, the player could change his sanity regen rate to provide more control over sanity or unlock new shadow crafts.

I'd be interested in discussing rework concepts, but I didn't want to make this post too long

[HowlVoid]

I imagine it will be reversed similarly to Willow's fire immunity once his rework comes around.

At least I hope so, to be honest Im not even sure why it was nerfed. It may have been due to Maxwell reading Wicker's books for "free" but we have enlightenment now so it no longer makes sense. 

And yes, the codex umbra is very lame.

[clickrush]

I see where you're going with this but I would disagree. His sanity regen is already very high. DS Maxwell is just a badly balanced character in comparison.

But you mention his gathering advantage becoming less powerful as better options are unlocked. I partly agree here, because log gathering really seems to be the big bulk in comparison to mining except for niche situations. And you didn't even mention his combat shadows. They are so abysmally bad, that you didn't even mention them as a perk. On top of that there is the annoyance of the player not being able to control Maxwell's shadows well (at least since I last played him a couple of years ago).

I really want to like the character and I think he is powerful, but if I could wish for a change, then it would be a much higher degree of control of his shadows. And combat shadows specifically should be viable either because they can be sufficiently controlled or because they get some sort of combat perk that makes them usable at all.

[ShadowDuelist]

In my experience Maxwell’s sanity is no longer a main thing of his, but more of a side perk, which comes handy to stay sane once you’ve defeated enough nightmare creatures. And not much else from there.

The “real” characters with a strong mind as a perk IMO are Wormwood and Wigfrid now: 

Spoiler

Wigfrid can even sustain the sanity of a party of celestial crown users in combat, at no cost other than singing. Wormwood can go from 0 sanity to full in mere seconds with absolutely cheap items, keeping pine cones, seeds, or just any dug plant and a shovel.

Maxwell in DST revolves around resource gathering through his summons in the early game, and later on about using wicker’s books. With books available and ruins helmets, or a beefalo, he’s a very solid all around character.

But I agree that while he is in posession of the most powerful spellbook in the realm, being still just a mere gatherer and needing of a different character to expand his “magic” side is lame. The codex should not only make him the true puppet master (that is, having a higher variety of puppets, smarter and definitely much better fighters) but also expand upon nightmare magic.

Spoiler

EG: channeling spells that make him unable to move or do something else while casting it, like a big AOE that makes shadow hands pop all around and hold enemies in place so other players or his shadows finish them off, or a shadowy force field made of hundreds of puppets all around an area that enemies can’t pass through, but consumes  sanity and stops once his sanity reaches 0, with a cooldown to recast. That kinda stuff.

I believe his rework should revolve, instead of sanity regen, more on the summons and the codex umbra itself. Maxwell has a huge potential, and personally I would love if he’d become a true powerful “summoner” character.

Even if they give him 3 or 4 new types of shadow puppets, and a power similar to that of Wendy’s flower control (being able to get shadow puppets that you payed for back to the codex umbra, so they can be re-summoned for free so long as they don’t get killed) would be a huge thing, since you could change your strat and your minions in a pinch.

Spoiler

And yes please buff shadow duelists a lot ty

 

[Erineyes7]

Personally, no. Maxwell in DS was horrible to manage sanity, the positive 20 was absurd and made it impossible to ever get fuel, which his whole character was based on. DST Maxwell's sanity regen is perfect, in the fact that it is so passive, It's enough to keep you sane for whenever you aren't doing anything sanity intensive. I would love to see Maxwell changed in other way, like the Codex having magic crafts like the dark sword and staves for early game before you can get a Shadow Manipulator, as Maxwell fundamentally works perfectly just by himself

[Maxil20]

3 hours ago, Knowbodie said:

DST Maxwell has a measly 6.66 sanity per minute in comparison to singleplayer Maxwell with 20 sanity per minute, pretty much a third of the original rate.

Even at 1/3rd of the original sanity rate, his sanity regen perk is still really good for 99.9% of passive sanity loss cases. For most characters, you either need to combat natural sanity loss with clothing or sanity regen, which Maxwell can practically ignore. Even for occasional mob fights the passive sanity gain is almost always enough to outpace serious dangers, with the exception of fighting a boss, which you would usually prepare for beforehand.

It’s also important to note his minions got far better in DST. DS minions were super subpar. They lasted 2.5 days, costed 15 HP from yourself (and this could kill you, as well!), didn’t regen with their 75 HP, and were basically slightly better then using pigs for chopping trees and if they were able to mine objects, which you also basically had to be doing in order for them to help you. DST minions in comparison are far better for doing the tasks they are meant to do, and for the most part are usually pretty solid (the duelists are incredibly niche, though). Even if it’s outclassed later on, he still serves a very good role at resource gathering for the first 70 or so days, and possibly further if people kill Bearger and/or haven’t killed fuelweaver yet.

Also, while the enlightened crown can basically solve every sanity issue for most characters as well, it is the definition of an endgame boss drop. You are not going to have an enlightened crown for a long time in a world, and Maxwell’s perk is simply just Innate to him the moment he spawns. He doesn’t need to kill crab king and do the whole moonstorm/champion quest to deal with passive insanity issues. It might become less relevant after ~200-300 days when you are usually able to get it without it being too out of the way, but even then he can still get a good advantage of using it over the other characters. It is unfortunate he can’t use his shadow minion perks along with it, though.

[Guille6785]

this would achieve nothing except make it more annoying to get fuel at the beginning of the game, 6.66 already means you basically never go insane (due to it counteracting the passive sanity drain of night and caves) unless you wanna fully tank wetness which seems overkill

[Vixen Doe]

As the resident Maxwell main, I'd say that no, he doesn't need his sanity buffed. The +6/m regen is more than enough to keep you sane about 90% of the time, and slow enough to allow you to actually fight shadow creatures and collect nightmare fuel (y'know, his thing?). I agree with the others in this thread- his sanity is fine, its his shadows that need a buff. Even though I usually fully rely on them for gathering rocks and logs, they're quite pitiful lategame. Not to mention, the lack of control over them is irritating. I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally made them too close to my base, and had them wreck the Maxwell statue I had set up around, or mine premature marble trees, or chop my lune/totally normal trees (I usually just rollback for this- I don't want to have to deal with that).

3 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

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EG: channeling spells that make him unable to move or do something else while casting it, like a big AOE that makes shadow hands pop all around and hold enemies in place so other players or his shadows finish them off, or a shadowy force field made of hundreds of puppets all around an area that enemies can’t pass through, but consumes  sanity and stops once his sanity reaches 0, with a cooldown to recast. That kinda stuff.

 

 

 

This comes to mind as a good idea- I've never once used his duelists, because they're impractical, weak, and unusable. Being able to use magic for fighting besides the worse-than-pigs duelists would instantly make Maxwell a better, and possibly more used character. Perhaps adding a way for him to call back shadows, cancel their actions, or direct them to one target in specific would be a good idea for his rework. I'm no means an expert on Don't Starve (only about 220 hours on record), and this is only my 2 cents on his character as someone who plays him religiously.

 

TLDR: Buff the shadow puppets, keep the sanity the same.

[.]

Nah, sanity is fine.

I just want to get smarter, more effective shadows. Here is my old post that tells how could mechanics work.

 

[Echsrick]

well if i have to think about why he has lower sanity regen first of all in single he made like the world so he knows the ins and outs of it but later thanks to charlie the world changed and this is what maxwells angers there are things he dit not create but someone else dit so i can see thats as a reason why he has lower sanity

2 is just because more balance i guess even if i still wish that he still has his sword and armor at the start

and last its funny thats now 6.66 sanity because you know that number is special and somewhat fits

and yes havin less regen makes it more easy to get insane and stay insane for longer to at least kill 1 grawling horror before your to hight again and maxwell cant just disable his regen on will like warbucks could whit just not havin money on him