Creating ceramic without the Kiln

[DimaB77]

I reworked the schematic a little bit. Got the ratio of ceramics to magma close to yours, but with worse performance.

Without complicating/increasing the heat exchanger, you can't get better. But the scheme was extremely easy to understand and repeat (if anyone in their right mind wants to repeat it). Works on self-cooling.

[gabberworld]

37 minutes ago, DimaB77 said:

I reworked the schematic a little bit. Got the ratio of ceramics to magma close to yours, but with worse performance.

Without complicating/increasing the heat exchanger, you can't get better. But the scheme was extremely easy to understand and repeat (if anyone in their right mind wants to repeat it). Works on self-cooling.

i to have question tho about your build , its tested in base game or in dlc ?

[DimaB77]

I test everything in the basic version (if the scheme does not require buildings from the DLC)

[nakomaru]

6 hours ago, JRup said:

I have some heat exchanger related doubts.

Before we get too far into it, I added a better heat exchanger design to the post after making the video, but didn't go into too much detail. This one is smaller and more efficient. It uses obsidian tiles and all sorts of vertical bridges in all the places you'd expect. I also removed the recycling aspect of bridges and merely throttle the output so that the rails are always full. Notice how the conveyer chute at the bottom left is closed.

You can even try this with no horizontal gaps, it will probably be even better efficiency when using obsidian (see below).

Details:

Spoiler

 

6 hours ago, JRup said:

Regarding the hydrogen loop seen in the ceramifier: Would it be better to flip the bridge and set it up in countercurrent to the flow of the conveyor rail?

I think the direction probably doesn't matter too much for this design. The idea is to shunt heat vertically, and I can't see a reason why up should be better or worse than down in theory. You could try it.

6 hours ago, JRup said:

I see that no automation bridges were used this time around in order to maximize mass in the exchanger. Was this an omission or was it just diminishing returns by this point?

Was probably a little bit of both. automation ribbon bridges should have been added for maximum efficiency.

6 hours ago, JRup said:

I would hope to have your take on using mechanized airlocks vs metal tile, but I guess that's pushing the envelope on this thread.

This is an important and not obvious point on debris heat exchangers in my opinion. I've gone back and forth on similar exchangers, and I regretfully didn't spend enough time before posting the original exchanger.

When you are dealing with debris on rails, you want as low of a thermal conductivity as possible without going below the conductivity of the debris. The best you can do with built tiles in this case are obsidian tiles or golden amalgam doors (be careful of 1064C melting temperature). For melting regolith it's natural regolith tiles, natural refined carbon tiles, or built obsidian tiles.

The debris in this and regolith melters have a TC of 0.62, 1.0 or 2.0. Going over this in your exchanger material doesn't help transfer to the debris - debris uses the lowest conductivity. Having extra TC using metal tiles increases the horizontal flow, which is wasted heat. This is countered by using horizontal gaps, but with obsidian you can remove the gaps for even more tiles of exchanging, and rely on bridges to transfer heat vertically (which you want).

With that line of reasoning, @DimaB77, you should try a solid line of obsidian tiles with no gaps instead of this. You really need some vertical bridges for it to work nicely though:

 

4 hours ago, JRup said:

Sage Hatch FTW! 100% conversion rate.

Good point. This will delete 20% of the mass instead of 33% of the mass due to the nature of the kiln recipe. It will also require some other system to generate dirt or polluted dirt (probably from crushing the igneous rock and cleaning polluted water).

5 hours ago, DimaB77 said:

In the video with 2 blocks (20kg) fell 2 piles of 10 kg, ie 50%. The same thing happened to me, so I gave up the doors:

No no, you can never avoid the 50% deletion from mining.

The problem that this solves is when 10kg of debris combines with 20kg of solid tile, you will get 30kg of solid tile. Which then gets halved again for 15kg. With doors, they do not combine to 30kg→15kg. Here is lilyscratchy's demonstration video:

[gabberworld]

you talked about cooling earlier,  this is my version off miner cooling 

[JRup]

5 hours ago, nakomaru said:

When you are dealing with debris on rails, you want as low of a thermal conductivity as possible without going below the conductivity of the debris.

Duly noted, no fancy material is actually required then. The thermium league is desperate...

6 hours ago, nakomaru said:

For melting regolith it's natural regolith tiles, natural refined carbon tiles, or built obsidian tiles.

6 hours ago, nakomaru said:

try a solid line of obsidian tiles with no gaps instead

Stares maliciously at coal tempshift plates. (There is no scarcity of that, is there?)

Getting the feeling of sandwiching some of those with obsidian tile.

6 hours ago, nakomaru said:

It will also require some other system to generate dirt or polluted dirt

Ethanol production is famous for being sage friendly.

6 hours ago, nakomaru said:

Having extra TC using metal tiles increases the horizontal flow, which is wasted heat. This is countered by using horizontal gaps, but with obsidian you can remove the gaps for even more tiles of exchanging, and rely on bridges to transfer heat vertically (which you want).

6 hours ago, nakomaru said:

I was recently messing around with a regolith melter and tested something like this at first. Then I recalled debris exchanges with the tile directly below so I re-did the whole thing with a vertical arrangement. A minor improvement was observed.

Next up: Obsidian tower sandwiches.

 

[Tytan]

the question is never: "why?"
she is always: "why not?"

[gabberworld]

almost non stop, there is somewhere what is needed little change 

[GreezyHammer]

May I persuade you to use Kiln anyway? What are your thoughts on this? Makes over 1.2 Tons of ceramic per cycle

Scaled-up:

https://imgur.com/gallery/9ULQyEb

[JRup]

1 hour ago, GreezyHammer said:

May I persuade you to use Kiln anyway? What are your thoughts on this?

I like the kiln, I'm against putting it inside an industrial sauna as-is even though it generates heat. This is because the output product takes away whatever heat we gained (or more).

I guess the takeaway of this thread is build the thingmajig to prove a point: that it can be done using what we've learned about melting magma-ice-cream (a.k.a. regolith) and having a blast with the mini-problems that crop up.

For example, I can't believe I spent most of yesterday's afternoon "optimizing" a conveyor bridge arrangement to get past a problem in the last step of a melter. But that takes me a step closer to putting together my personal concept of a ceramifier.

That whole process has led me to believe I found the cause of the mystery ceramic that comes up every once and then and was mitigated by using the pneumatic door on top. I still have to build the whole enchilada tho'.

[DimaB77]

You're really something. You made monsters, it's scary.

And I decided to slow down a bit with this scheme. I don't think 99.99% of players would be interested in it. The benefits aren't obvious. It's only interesting as food for thought.

So far I've left it as it is.

I also tested the nakomaru heat exchanger again.  Thanks to him and other users of the idea!