Radbolt transportation

[Rawsch]

Hello,

is it possible to transport radbolts without them becoming less over distance?I actually thought the vacuum of space should work and so I started building my Shinebug-(Radbolt)-Reactor. Or is it a bug and they are supposed to not decrease over distance in a vacuum?^^

[ghkbrew]

There is currently no good way to transport radbolts long distance.  Every shot starts with 50 radbolts and will decrease by one for each tile traveled regardless of medium. (Vacuum has no effect on this, but I like it as a suggestion.  Maybe each medium should have a different "resistance"?)

The best you can do is cut travel costs in half by using a chain of head-to-toe radbolt reflectors.

You generally just have to make radbolts where you're going to use them for now.  Hopefully some long distance transmission method will be added in the future.  It's still pre-release after all.

[SharraShimada]

I just guess, but i think the devs did not want us to build a massive radioactive source somewhere where its save, and then transport bolts across the map, where are they needed. Whats the fun with that? Lets build a radioactive leaking reactor next to the fridge!

[zach123b]

another way is through radioactive germs, i'm surprised nobody's really using the germ multiplication bug with the new germs for radbolt generators

[ghkbrew]

1 hour ago, zach123b said:

another way is through radioactive germs, i'm surprised nobody's really using the germ multiplication bug with the new germs for radbolt generators

That's not exactly transporting radbolts, just an easy way to generate them.

And at least one person is exploiting it:

Though I personally have been avoiding it in survival, because it feels more like a bug than an unintentional feature to me.

[forkrul assail]

Kind of unnecessary in the current version to use anything other than a simple infinite radbolt setup. I have no doubt that they will remove the ability for radbolt collisions to generate infinite radbolts. At present though there is no need to use radioactive germs or uranium/nuclear waste for anything. 

[MiniDeathStar]

2 hours ago, forkrul assail said:

Kind of unnecessary in the current version to use anything other than a simple infinite radbolt setup. I have no doubt that they will remove the ability for radbolt collisions to generate infinite radbolts. At present though there is no need to use radioactive germs or uranium/nuclear waste for anything. 

What's the fun in playing survival mode while relying on exploits? Not to mention how they've given us an entire elaborate radiation system and what you're suggesting is the equivalent of not having radiation at all.

[marioespinho]

4 hours ago, MiniDeathStar said:

What's the fun in playing survival mode while relying on exploits?

Infinite radbolt generation is not an exploit. It's using the current game rules, the same way we do with SPOM machines.

And even if it was an exploit, the definition of fun is up to each and every one of us, playing the game. Some people even play with sandbox open and that is fine.

Their game, their rules, their fun.

[MiniDeathStar]

@marioespinho Which is totally fine, but not as a dismissive solution suggestion to anybody who seeks a radbolt generator.

Exploiting unbalanced mechanics for infinite resources that circumvent the intended and much more difficult method (research reactor) is pretty much a textbook example of an exploit. Same with deconstructing nosecones for infinite steel and diamonds, demolishing rocket walls for quantum interior space, abusing storage bins in the nosecone in lieu of cargo bays, etc etc. All existing mechanics that trivialise the intended engineering problems in the game.

Again, totally fine if you enjoy playing with exploits, but offering them as best practices to other people is kind of yikes. 

[Cybeon]

1 hour ago, MiniDeathStar said:

@marioespinho Which is totally fine, but not as a dismissive solution suggestion to anybody who seeks a radbolt generator.

Exploiting unbalanced mechanics for infinite resources that circumvent the intended and much more difficult method (research reactor) is pretty much a textbook example of an exploit. Same with deconstructing nosecones for infinite steel and diamonds, demolishing rocket walls for quantum interior space, abusing storage bins in the nosecone in lieu of cargo bays, etc etc. All existing mechanics that trivialise the intended engineering problems in the game.

Again, totally fine if you enjoy playing with exploits, but offering them as best practices to other people is kind of yikes. 

I disagree that research reactor is THE intended way to create radbolts, Which is considering the amount of different radiation sources is just not true.

To me research reactor looks more like very complex solution allowing to create firstly massive amounts of power AND radiation among with different byproducts.

Radbolt collider on the other hand is more compact solution which can only produce radiation and radbolts spending a lot of electricity to work.

Also there are lot's of different ways to produce radbolts, 
As for abusing poorly balanced game mechanics  - I actually see it as a good thing. It helps to make it clear that such mechanic needs correction. And the more it abused the sooner it will be fixed.

And if developers do not bother to fix some vastly abused mechanic - then what do we really know about their intended way of things to be

[n_t_p]

On 4/5/2021 at 9:23 AM, ghkbrew said:

The best you can do is cut travel costs in half by using a chain of head-to-toe radbolt reflectors.

This is very clever, thanks for the tip.

[tnankie]

5 hours ago, Cybeon said:

 

As for abusing poorly balanced game mechanics  - I actually see it as a good thing. It helps to make it clear that such mechanic needs correction. And the more it abused the sooner it will be fixed.

 

And if developers do not bother to fix some vastly abused mechanic - then what do we really know about their intended way of things to be

woooooosh.
the sound of the point rushing overhead.

 

That might apply in a competitive game.

[marioespinho]

9 hours ago, MiniDeathStar said:

@marioespinho Which is totally fine, but not as a dismissive solution suggestion to anybody who seeks a radbolt generator.

Exploiting unbalanced mechanics for infinite resources that circumvent the intended and much more difficult method (research reactor) is pretty much a textbook example of an exploit. Same with deconstructing nosecones for infinite steel and diamonds, demolishing rocket walls for quantum interior space, abusing storage bins in the nosecone in lieu of cargo bays, etc etc. All existing mechanics that trivialise the intended engineering problems in the game.

Again, totally fine if you enjoy playing with exploits, but offering them as best practices to other people is kind of yikes. 

So i assume you don't like and don't use SPOM machines either, right? Because that literally "circumvents the intended and much more difficult methods" of oxygen management.

Also, saying that the obvious bugs ( nosecone deconstruction and interior walls ). and setups that deal with a game mechanic in a smart way are both exploits is totally wrong. Because if we follow that logic, any setup that generates positive results is an exploit ( Sour gas boilers, SPOM machines, toilet loops, aquatuner cooling loops ), hell, if we follow that logic, most of Brothgar experiments would be exploits then !!!

[Electroely]

3 hours ago, marioespinho said:

So i assume you don't like and don't use SPOM machines either, right? Because that literally "circumvents the intended and much more difficult methods" of oxygen management.

Also, saying that the obvious bugs ( nosecone deconstruction and interior walls ). and setups that deal with a game mechanic in a smart way are both exploits is totally wrong. Because if we follow that logic, any setup that generates positive results is an exploit ( Sour gas boilers, SPOM machines, toilet loops, aquatuner cooling loops ), hell, if we follow that logic, most of Brothgar experiments would be exploits then !!!

I don't want to argue that game mechanics SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be abused, because I think that depends entirely on the player, but I don't see how a SPOM circumvents game mechanics in a way similar to infinite radbolt setups. Making use of the fact that hydrogen goes above oxygen to efficiently harness the oxygen and potential energy from water makes more sense than creating more radbolts by smashing radbolts together to me.

Again, I don't want to imply that it's not intended or should not be used because games are made for fun and who knows what's going on inside the devs' heads, but I don't really think this is a fair comparison. It's hard to argue about it, though, since radbolts themselves don't make a lot of sense. Whether an infinite radbolt setup makes sense or not would depend on the player's interpretation of them; and to me it seems like creating matter out of nothing.

[marioespinho]

14 minutes ago, Electroely said:

I don't want to argue that game mechanics SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be abused, because I think that depends entirely on the player, but I don't see how a SPOM circumvents game mechanics in a way similar to infinite radbolt setups. Making use of the fact that hydrogen goes above oxygen to efficiently harness the oxygen and potential energy from water makes more sense than creating more radbolts by smashing radbolts together to me.

Again, I don't want to imply that it's not intended or should not be used because games are made for fun and who knows what's going on inside the devs' heads, but I don't really think this is a fair comparison. It's hard to argue about it, though, since radbolts themselves don't make a lot of sense. Whether an infinite radbolt setup makes sense or not would depend on the player's interpretation of them; and to me it seems like creating matter out of nothing.

From a gaming point of view, they work the same way. A SPOM provides infinite oxygen as long as you feed it water, an Infinite Radbolt provides, well,  infinite radbolts as long as you feed it power. I don't see how are they different other than one sounding more plausible from a real world perspective, wich doesn't make sense to apply since we are talking about video game exploits.

 

[Electroely]

1 minute ago, marioespinho said:

From a gaming point of view, they work the same way. A SPOM provides infinite oxygen as long as you feed it water, an Infinite Radbolt provides, well,  infinite radbolts as long as you feed it power. I don't see how are they different other than one sounding more plausible from a real world perspective, wich doesn't make sense to apply since we are talking about video game exploits.

 

That's true, but some players like some of the realism in the game, hence why you can find players that never really use regular liquid locks and either play without them at all or wait for visco-gel, which has a more plausible explanation for its properties than a little bit of water and oil.

[marioespinho]

@Electroely

I know, and that is totally fair. But it doesn't mean that the "less than normal" elements of the game are less valid than the "normal" ones. Liquid locks, volcano tamers, spom machines, infinite radbolts, sour gas boilers, etc  are all valid creations that use the available game tools. That can't be seen as an exploit in a game that expects players to do exactly that, create.

 

[GreezyHammer]

On 4/5/2021 at 12:23 PM, ghkbrew said:

There is currently no good way to transport radbolts long distance.  Every shot starts with 50 radbolts and will decrease by one for each tile traveled regardless of medium. (Vacuum has no effect on this, but I like it as a suggestion.  Maybe each medium should have a different "resistance"?)

The best you can do is cut travel costs in half by using a chain of head-to-toe radbolt reflectors.

You generally just have to make radbolts where you're going to use them for now.  Hopefully some long distance transmission method will be added in the future.  It's still pre-release after all.

Pump radioactive waste to where you need to make Rad Bolts, then just make them on the spot.

Once the waste is no longer radioactive, pump it out.

[ghkbrew]

22 minutes ago, GreezyHammer said:

Once the waste is no longer radioactive, pump it out.

You're going to have a long wait.

Nuclear waste in ONI is always radioactive.  The initial radioactivity will decrease some as ths radioactive contaminants germs die off, but the material itself will continue to produce radiation.