Super-compact alternating-battery power-grid! No more heavi-watt wires!

[Crimsontide]

23 hours ago, nakomaru said:

These minor tweaks missed my first draft, but you can reduce the height to 4 tiles total without the automation sticking out the bottom like this.

You should be able to compact it further if you cross the power lines instead of the automation lines.

[nakomaru]

2 hours ago, Crimsontide said:

You should be able to compact it further if you cross the power lines instead of the automation lines.

Can you? What you have provided is a single direction only, wasteful battery variant of a bugged battery driven switch which is already three tiles high (which itself is bi-directional and uses two efficient batteries).

The best I can I do for a three tile high two smart battery non-bugged generator-driving design is this 11x3 monster.

And it also can be done in the same space without crossing power lines.

In other words it's not an improvement.

[TheMule]

3 hours ago, Crimsontide said:

You should be able to compact it further if you cross the power lines instead of the automation lines.

That design seems vulnerable to the very bug we're discussing here. Save at the wrong time, and you find all 4 shutoffs off, and you're stuck. I see no reset timer.
 

[Nikorasu]

I've been trying to come up with some alternative layouts that include a Timer, but still similar to my original design.. And so far this is the best I've been able to manage tonight, at least in terms of overall simplicity and square-building-space usage. lol

This seems to give me the most versatile access to the battery automation ports for controlling generators or whatever.. And the backbone power-line can come in from bottom side through the middle as shown in the image, or above that left-top corner shutoff if you add a couple wire bridges, making it fit into most situations I'd need it for.

[TheMule]

16 hours ago, Nikorasu said:

I've been trying to come up with some alternative layouts that include a Timer, but still similar to my original design.. And so far this is the best I've been able to manage tonight, at least in terms of overall simplicity and square-building-space usage. lol

This seems to give me the most versatile access to the battery automation ports for controlling generators or whatever.. And the backbone power-line can come in from bottom side through the middle as shown in the image, or above that left-top corner shutoff if you add a couple wire bridges, making it fit into most situations I'd need it for.

You're right. Even if they are not involved in the switching, smart batteries can be still used to control generators, as is.

[Zistack]

I've been working on designs for this recently, and thought I'd drop them in here, since they're a little different than the stuff that's already been posted.  I primarily use a cell-based system for organizing space, so making things long and skinny or punching through the floor doesn't work well for my designs.  All of these designs are timer-based.

First, my basic design that uses smart batteries and fits in a 4x4 space.

Set the timer to 9.9s/9.9s

 

If you're OK with using jumbo batteries, you can get a conductive Heavy-watt wire hookup to fit in the same space, though this is really only useful for something like a giant oil cooker or central cooling system, where a basic hookup for each aquatuner would be prohibitively space-expensive.  The design can easily be mirrored.

This abuses the fact that joint-plates can be used to bridge over smaller wires that can run through tile.  The wiring pattern is similar to previous posts - probably because there aren't very many options when trying to pack a hookup into a space of this geometry.

Set the timer to 0.7s/0.7s.

 

Unfortunately, I know of no way to use smart batteries for such a hookup in a 4x4 space, but the design most recently posted by Nikorasu can be adapted fairly easily into a 4x5 design.  This design can also be easily mirrored.

Set the timer to 0.3s/0.3s.

[The Plum Gate]

Any of you,

So I have been doing a similar thing with my systems, but have incorporated automation and a minor issue regarding the transformers - they have a tendency to cause a 1kw load when becoming active on automation - this is a problem when I want to use conductive wire or less only. I admit that I have not looked in great detail at the designs above. Are any of you using switches to avoid transformer discharge?

I thought about a pre-transformer loop-back flip-flop type toggle switch, so that the smart battery is switched from the draw down side to the supply side pre transformer such that this also maintains the charge of the transformer - but this sends my head spinning a bit. My current design if for backup battery power of a fridge - it's a lot of randomness for what is essentially the only thing that always needs power in my base.

And, while I'm at it, is the transformer capacity similar to a battery - if any of you know off the top of your head? I haven't been able to really dig in to the topic lately. It seems like it has capacity like a battery - this is why I want it on the supply side of the back up system, but the supplier side of the one battery when the battery needs charging - this would keep the transformer from ever discharging and drawing 1kw. I'm currently using the automation on the transformer like a switch ( probably not the best set-up, but it works since it's the only on momentarily to charge the battery ).

[nakomaru]

It is no surprise that Small Transformers are causing a 1kW load for you, because Small Transformers are 1kW consumers on one end and 1kW generators on the other. They do have a capacity like batteries but do not act like them in any important ways.

I must admit I'm having trouble following what you are trying to do and what the problem is, but if you want to make sure it doesn't act like a 1kW consumer, never let it get to 0 J charge. If you automate the transformer itself it will drop to 0J eventually through runoff.

Instead put a power shutoff after the output. Then it never loses charge.

But if you are using it to charge batteries then this is pointless because their function is a 1kW consumer and will act as such when charging batteries.

[ZombieDupe]

I don't think I understand the mechanics of this. Is this design able to work because flickering between two batteries prevents overloads?

[Nikorasu]

4 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

I don't think I understand the mechanics of this. Is this design able to work because flickering between two batteries prevents overloads?

It actually uses Power Shutoffs, which disconnect power-lines that pass through them, to isolate/split the power grid between power-generators and power-users. The game only overloads wires based on the power you use, it doesn't count generators or batteries against those overload limits.. Since we can disconnects wires via shutoffs, we can use batteries as a rechargeable middle-man/buffer, with shutoffs on either side. Controlled either by a timer or a smart battery, first they charge up, then disconnect from the generator-side, and instantly re-connect to power-users, meanwhile the other battery simultaneously does the opposite, so there's always a battery charging, while the other is being used, but there's no direct connection between the generator and load side. Thus avoiding the overload limitation, when it comes to the backbone line of a power-grid, enabling you to use basic low-cost wire for that, rather than heavi-watt stuff.

[TheMule]

19 hours ago, Nikorasu said:

. Is this design able to work because flickering between two batteries prevents overloads?

Not at all.

The design works because load is defined in the game based on consumers only. Batteries never count as load. All power grids work like that, some might not use that at all, some might use it in a more hidden way, some take full advantage of that property.

Eg. some asteroid types don't have a 'coal' start but have tons of ethanol. Well, your first generator might be a petroleum one, battery controlled. As long as the load in your base is below 1kW, you use 1kW regular wire. So far so good, it's almost the same of the coal start (you need a bit more research tho).

But wait a minute. What happens when the smart battery turns the generator on? Well it recharges the battery, you say... but at the full 2kW of power of the generator... over a 1kW wire. Nothing bad happens, the load on the wire is still based on what consumers are on in your base. As long that stays below 1kW, the wire is fine. Recharging batteries never add to the load.

It's a basic property of batteries, something that happens in every base.

 

The original idea of the flipping batteries is the kind that takes full advantage of that. It makes so that the generators and the main wire are never connected to any consumer, and thus there's no load on the main wire. Only batteries are connected. Once a battery is full, it disconnects from the main grid and connects to the consumers it serves. Meanwhile its twin battery disconnects from consumers and connects to the generators, to recharge. When the first battery is low, they swap roles again.  It doesn't matter how often that happens. It can be once per minute. They don't have to "flicker" for the design to work.