TinyBitQuantum Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 The less gas in a chamber, the less efficient the gas pump becomes. The asymptotic decay from a few grams on every square to vacuum takes forever (kg -> g, g -> mg, mg -> mcg, mcg -> vacuum) depending on size of room, this can be 10s of cycles. this also makes the energy price of the gas pump really hurt. Raising the tolerance at which the room snaps over to vacuum, or changing the decay rate of the 'sucking power' of the pump, would allow for less 'ok now I need ignore this room till vacuum again' time. This would also make using actual airlocks, over waterlocks, more viable, for those of us that find some of the 'physics sim hack' solutions annoying. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Using multiple small gas pumps instead of one normal pump makes it go faster and take less power. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1405688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blash365 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, psusi said: Using multiple small gas pumps instead of one normal pump makes it go faster and take less power. It is still noteworthy that smaller pumps are not more efficient than normal pumps at 100% efficiency. Your comment might make sense in these close-to-vacuum scenarios tough. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1405698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 hour ago, blash365 said: It is still noteworthy that smaller pumps are not more efficient than normal pumps at 100% efficiency. Your comment might make sense in these close-to-vacuum scenarios tough. Right... once the pressure gets low both pumps move very little, but the mini pump at least takes less power, and if you make several of them spread around, the gas doesn't have to move as far to reach them, and that's what tends to be the limiting factor at low pressures. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1405749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Mini-pumps also clear glass quicker, since their catchment area covers their physical dimensions completely (and then some). More useful for airlocks than one-and-done vacuums though. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1405801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinyBitQuantum Posted December 15, 2020 Author Share Posted December 15, 2020 10 hours ago, psusi said: Right... once the pressure gets low both pumps move very little, but the mini pump at least takes less power, and if you make several of them spread around, the gas doesn't have to move as far to reach them, and that's what tends to be the limiting factor at low pressures. I may need to do some experimenting with mini-pumps. I completely wrote them off given the power and rate on the tin. Might be the way to go for airlocks... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1405943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avc15 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 15 hours ago, psusi said: Right... once the pressure gets low both pumps move very little, but the mini pump at least takes less power, and if you make several of them spread around, the gas doesn't have to move as far to reach them, and that's what tends to be the limiting factor at low pressures. Notably, when you're below the pressure required for a small pump to grab full packets (about 10g), both a large pump and a small pump will grab packets of the same size. Laid out in a grid pattern, small pumps will take a room from 10g to vacuum surprisingly fast. You can do the same with regular sized pumps but that's a lot of wasted power. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1406013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 3 hours ago, avc15 said: Notably, when you're below the pressure required for a small pump to grab full packets (about 10g), both a large pump and a small pump will grab packets of the same size. Eh? A full packet for a mini is 50g, not 10g. Also since it uses 1/4th the power of a regular pump, it pulls ahead in efficiency at 200g of pressure. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1406097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avc15 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 1 hour ago, psusi said: Also since it uses 1/4th the power of a regular pump, it pulls ahead in efficiency at 200g of pressure. I'm certain you're correct about this, I just didn't do the math. 1 hour ago, psusi said: Eh? A full packet for a mini is 50g A mini pump will pull a 50g packet from an environment with around 10g of gas density. Well, because of pressure gradients while the pump is running, it actually needs to be slightly above 10g. So, restating the original point. Below 10g both a large pump and a mini pump will fetch packets of the same size, and one uses way more power than the other. I don't think we're in disagreement here, I was adding additional perspectives for the OP. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1406120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 42 minutes ago, avc15 said: A mini pump will pull a 50g packet from an environment with around 10g of gas density. Well, because of pressure gradients while the pump is running, it actually needs to be slightly above 10g. Are you saying that it can grab from 5 different cells that each have 10g at the same time to get a 50g packet? I am pretty sure that isn't the case. Normal pumps seem to start sending smaller packets of gas at around 500g per cell. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1406142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avc15 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 16 minutes ago, psusi said: Are you saying that it can grab from 5 different cells that each have 10g at the same time to get a 50g packet? I am pretty sure that isn't the case. Normal pumps seem to start sending smaller packets of gas at around 500g per cell. benchmark it in dev mode - create a room that's a uniform gas at 200g with a single regular pump. The first few packets are 500g packets, they become smaller as the pressure gradient forms. In other words, as the cells it's grabbing gas from drop below 180g or so (edit: really when there isn't 500g within the pump's reach anymore) - that center cell will drop to near vacuum very quickly But the original statement still stands, whether you agree with this or not. Below (ugh edit) 10g or so, both pumps create packets of the same size. I'm on your side, wison. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1406147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2tallyGr8 Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 I think avc15 is correct, although that is just from me watching my pumps and their efficiency. I haven't actually done a controlled test on this subject. I think avc15 is correct, although that is just from me watching my pumps and their efficiency. I haven't actually done a controlled test on this subject I think avc15 is correct, although that is just from me watching my pumps and their efficiency. I haven't actually done a controlled test on this subject. I think avc15 is correct, although that is just from me watching my pumps and their efficiency. I haven't actually done a controlled test on this subject. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1408042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
suicide commando Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 When you want to vacuum out a room, spreading multiple small pumps around will definitely be more efficient than 1 or 2 large ones, simply because there's more places where the gas gets removed, so especially at low pressures, this makes a big difference. The fact they suck in less than a couple of large pumps at first isn't an issue either because this is only at the initial stage where gas pressure is high that the big pumps are more efficient ( and only barely so ). Once pressure drops to under 500g/tile this goes out the window. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124872-gas-to-vacuum%C2%A0quicker/#findComment-1408097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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