Oasisse - Is early-game ethanol a viable strategy?

[QuQuasar]

I've been challenging myself with ravenous dupes on Oassise and am wondering if rushing the ethanol loop might actually be a more viable strategy than rushing an electrolyzer. 

I don't generally rely on oxyferns because they don't produce gas, they only convert it. Without de-oxidizers or terrariums to replenish the atmosphere this reduces gas pressure in the base, eventually resulting in suffocation. But I realised I don't have to produce oxygen: if I produce enough Co2 from the generator, that will keep the oxyferns fed and the gas pressure high.

The biggest risks I see is Co2 over-production. It may be necessary to set up a gas crusher next to the generator.

Has anyone tried this?

[Soulwind]

Gas crushers are a bit of a pain, imo.  I'd just use a carbon skimmer tied to a gas pressure sensor.  Or an infinite storage...but that's just me.

[ghkbrew]

15 hours ago, QuQuasar said:

I don't generally rely on oxyferns because they don't produce gas, they only convert it. Without de-oxidizers or terrariums to replenish the atmosphere this reduces gas pressure in the base, eventually resulting in suffocation

I don't think this is accurate. I believe oxyferns convert CO2 to O2 at a slightly higher rater than dupes do the opposite. Add in a few extra CO2 sources and the oxyferns lack of overpressure and the problem is almost always too much O2 bursting eardrums.

[JRup]

15 hours ago, QuQuasar said:

The biggest risks I see is Co2 over-production. It may be necessary to set up a gas crusher next to the generator.

Carbon skimmers are the mechanical enemy of CO2. Do take into account their performance and that you'd need roughly 3 to offset what 4 distillers would produce. Add the petroleum generator to the mix and you'll need 5 to fully offset the total amount of CO2 produced.

Reminder: This is just for a setup that is on 100% of the time. Carbon skimmers can and will generate a vacuum in a CO2 environment. (Deconstruct one that's done that and lose the vacuum if it's inside, lol)

This is an old thread that talked trees & ethanol: https://steamcommunity.com/app/457140/discussions/0/1636416951452031749/

Do take into account that ethanol will need to stay cool outside and inside the generator (Pipes will bust and the generator will poot happy puffs of ethanol gas that are heavier than CO2 if hot enough.)

On the flipside of all this, you do get a good amount of polluted water out of this adventure.

When it comes to oxyferns I don't know if this is closer to what you need, but saw it on another thread and found it interesting. (So much so that I'll nab some ideas from it..) Shipping automation means it's not that early game anymore but it does fit the bill in that it takes care of the pressure issue with oxyferns...

On 12/2/2020 at 9:58 PM, KittenIsAGeek said:

I rarely build SPOMs anymore.  It wastes hydrogen that has better uses elsewhere.  Electrolyzers really don't use a lot of power, so it isn't hard to power them from other sources.  SPOMs aren't even that efficient -- the only thing going for them is the 'self-powered' part.  Its a "fire and forget" setup that is initially attractive.  

I have several problems with SPOMs:

1. The 'self-powered' part burns hydrogen, which you're going to want to use elsewhere.  
2. They're not very efficient.  If you only need oxygen, there are more efficient methods.  
3. They generate a lot of heat that must be dealt with.  Otherwise that heat is going to end up in your base.

There's nothing wrong with using electrolyzers to produce your oxygen.  I just won't do it because the hydrogen is more valuable to me than the oxygen is.  The way  I see it, oxygen is a by-product from producing hydrogen for my rockets.

 

Some of my favorite methods of producing oxygen are:

1. Deoderizers turning PO2 into O2 and clay (for ceramics)
2. Algae Terrariums (turns into #1 above)
3. Oxyferns.  I'm still working on a good method of delivering the CO2 they need without getting in the way of their O2 production, but.. once you start farming these, they work out pretty good in small scale.  But hey, 98.7% efficient conversion of water to oxygen beats even deoderizers which is only 90% efficient.  (Pic attached below)

This actually works really well.  I put left gas pump at "above 5kg" and the left at "above 7kg."  Actual output is about 560g/s of oxygen.  The vents for CO2 close if it gets off the first tile.

 

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents on this whole debate.

 

[QuQuasar]

8 hours ago, ghkbrew said:

I don't think this is accurate. I believe oxyferns convert CO2 to O2 at a slightly higher rater than dupes do the opposite. Add in a few extra CO2 sources and the oxyferns lack of overpressure and the problem is almost always too much O2 bursting eardrums.

Oh! You're right. I guess I must have depressurized my previous base by digging too fast or by trapping Co2 somewhere it couldn't be converted. Given that 1 gram of Co2 becomes 50 grams of O2, it's easy to imagine that a small pocket somewhere away from my Oxyfern farm could represent a lot of missing oxygen in the base overall.

 

 

[Gurgel]

On 12/9/2020 at 12:49 AM, QuQuasar said:

I don't generally rely on oxyferns because they don't produce gas, they only convert it. Without de-oxidizers or terrariums to replenish the atmosphere this reduces gas pressure in the base, eventually resulting in suffocation. But I realised I don't have to produce oxygen: if I produce enough Co2 from the generator, that will keep the oxyferns fed and the gas pressure high.

I have done that multiple times successfully, usually with a wood generator. The important thing is to have an oxygen pressure sensor, otherwise the oxyferns will happily overpressure your base. Obviously, you also want a CO2 sensor so only the bottom layer of the base has CO2. As to the actual regulator, I use doors that prevent dupes from delivering dirt when oxygen pressure is high enough. I found that trying to regulate oxygen pressure directly with CO2 production does not work well.

[cpy]

Problem is you have limited amount of ferns! If you play without charity pod.

[Neotuck]

The ideal ratio is 3.2 oxyferns per dupe (not including diver lungs or mouth breather)

So you'll need to find a minimum of 10 oxyferns to support the 3 dupes you start with

Then count how many oxyferns you have total to determine how many more dupes you can print before setting up an electrolyzer

6 hours ago, QuQuasar said:

I guess I must have depressurized my previous base by digging too fast or by trapping Co2 somewhere it couldn't be converted.

I try to keep my center base air tight with a water lock so I can dig out using exosuits

[Gurgel]

38 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

The ideal ratio is 3.2 oxyferns per dupe (not including diver lungs or mouth breather)

So you'll need to find a minimum of 10 oxyferns to support the 3 dupes you start with

Then count how many oxyferns you have total to determine how many more dupes you can print before setting up an electrolyzer

This is the major gripe I have fit oxyferns: It can take a long time for you to be able to scale up the base.

[Neotuck]

13 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

This is the major gripe I have fit oxyferns: It can take a long time for you to be able to scale up the base.

Which is why you should prioritize establishing a water source early game for an electrolyzer before moving on to mid game

[Gurgel]

2 hours ago, Neotuck said:

Which is why you should prioritize establishing a water source early game for an electrolyzer before moving on to mid game

Instead, I have stopped using Oxyferns altogether. Oasisse, for example, is quite possible without them.

[KittenIsAGeek]

On 12/9/2020 at 8:15 AM, JRup said:

Shipping automation means it's not that early game anymore but it does fit the bill in that it takes care of the pressure issue with oxyferns...

I should point out that dupes will happily deliver dirt to the bottom side of planters, so even without shipping, you can seal off your oxyfern room if you like.

[JRup]

1 minute ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I should point out that dupes will happily deliver dirt to the bottom side of planters, so even without shipping, you can seal off your oxyfern room if you like.

Cool, so dupes will never see the glorious gully of ferns that feed them air after planted.

[KittenIsAGeek]

2 minutes ago, JRup said:

Cool, so dupes will never see the glorious gully of ferns that feed them air after planted.

Correct.  I had to build tiles underneath the farm plot tiles to keep dupes from stealing deliveries from my auto-sweepers.