Giving wendy a downside

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, stranger again said:

a good weakness for wolfgang COULD HAVE BEEN

not having 300 sanity when he is a coward xD

[falk_]

maybe just make abigail a little bit weaker so that wendy actually has to help her fight spiders and other stuff instead of just watching from a safe distance while the ghost does all the work for her?

I think Abigail is quite balanced during the day, but really op at night. That is where i would suggest a balance.

[Miu3]

Now why would you want to nerf a perfectly balanced character?

[Shareazu Huss]

On 11/5/2020 at 2:15 PM, Mike23Ua said:

I think as long as op characters like Wolfgang exist that Wendy is fine as is.

Also her downside is being insane.. Abigail will not attack shadow creatures AT ALL and therefore her petal Bestowment buff never gets applied to the Shadow Creatures, which means Wendy’s hits weaker then average downside is in full effect when fighting Shadows.

It may not SOUND like a downside but it’s a downside all the same.

I get pretty sick of seeing these comments of Nerf/Buff so and so this isn’t SMITE, it Isn’t Apex Legends and my Apex Main (Wraith) doesn’t need to be nerfed every patch update.

If Klei wants to give Wendy a Harsh downside they should do that in a HARDER DIFFICULTY MODE, targeted very specifically for people actively looking to be punished.

And as a #Wendy Main I can even tell you how to go about doing that, Anytime Wendy “Returns” Abigail to her Flower she enters an animation of actually taking the flower and ripping it Apart- Wendy would need to gather ingredients to craft a new flower each time she returned Abigail.

In Addition to that- Losing Abigail the first time broke Wendy’s heart.. so having to lose her any other times just makes that enormous hole tear a little bigger..

(Wendy loses parts of her actual health core anytime Abigail Dies)

THAT is how you balance Wendy, but it’s a Balance that needs to be locked behind a Klei official Uncompromising Mode.

I don't really think Wendy is broken or anything. Without Abigail's assistance, she is a normal/weaker character, without any major advantages or disadvantages. Also, Abigail is not that tanky normally, so it's easy to lose her, too.

Besides, this game does not particularly seem to care that much for balance, considering that you have characters that are clearly stronger than others (wolfgang *cough*, Wortox *cough cough*, etc.), so as long as it's not too broken, i find it hard that it'll ever be something that will be adressed.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, Shareazu Huss said:

without any major advantages

abi

[Shareazu Huss]

7 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

abi

I meant in that phrase that, without abigail, she is not only not strong, but slightly weak in comparison to other characters. It's also not that hard to lose abigail if one is not careful, so if you do end up losing her, you end up with a weaker character for a while.

[TheFat]

I think currently Wendy & Abi are too strong, any new player can forego the threat from most hostile mobs, so they only need to focus on food, sanity and temperature.

So my proposal for a minor downside is Wendy suffer a negative sanity drain when Abigail is not summoned (probably from -5 to -15 per sec), and if Abigail is lost in combat, Wendy suffer a burst of negative sanity ( around -30 ~ -50)

[viberr]

1 hour ago, TheFat said:

So my proposal for a minor downside is Wendy suffer a negative sanity drain when Abigail is not summoned (probably from -5 to -15 per sec)

yeah how about a huge no on that one. -5 to-15 per sec is killer i would at most say -5 sanity every minute 

but im pretty sure you don't know how big of a downside that really is right?me personally when im not in combat i usually have abigail in her flower so to  make it to where you lose so much sanity PER SECOND is a HUGE no from me

[TheFat]

1 hour ago, stranger again said:

yeah how about a huge no on that one. -5 to-15 per sec is killer i would at most say -5 sanity every minute 

but im pretty sure you don't know how big of a downside that really is right?me personally when im not in combat i usually have abigail in her flower so to  make it to where you lose so much sanity PER SECOND is a HUGE no from me

But I said when Abigail is not summoned though, and every Wendy player can just summons her as soon as you enter the game, thus negating the  effect ( fitting lore-wise too, since Wendy miss Abi so much)

[viberr]

1 minute ago, TheFat said:

But I said when Abigail is not summoned though, and every Wendy player can just summons her as soon as you enter the game, thus negating the  effect ( fitting lore-wise too, since Wendy miss Abi so much)

yeah but most of time (for me at least)i usually have Abigail unsummoned and only summon her when im in combat and with a downside like that i would just basically have to keep her summoned all the time and thats a no from me

[TheFat]

1 minute ago, stranger again said:

yeah but most of time (for me at least)i usually have Abigail unsummoned and only summon her when im in combat and with a downside like that i would just basically have to keep her summoned all the time and thats a no from me

Fair point, so what do you think about the sanity penalty when Abi is lost in combat ? Is this a more balance downside ?

[viberr]

1 minute ago, TheFat said:

Fair point, so what do you think about the sanity penalty when Abi is lost in combat ? Is this a more balance downside ?

yeah i think its pretty fair and it makes sense lore wise as well 

[Mike23Ua]

Honestly Wendy’s biggest downside prior to Abigails rework was having to chase every thing she wanted dead into Abigails ghost- Things she does now (Being told to chase that stuff) was things Wendy Mains already figured out how to do prior to the rework.

The largest part of that pre-rework downside was when Abigail suicides herself into Swamp Tentacle or died under a bosses feet, because the flower just fell to the ground in the spot Abby died in, and you either had to craft a new flower or.. risk your own life to rescue the one you had.

Personally I never created multiple flowers because to me it just felt like it broke the characters Lore, even though it was an OPTION I felt Abigails Flower was Special, and to have her spirit haunt any randomly crafted flower really destroyed that lore for Me.

Apparently Klei saw things the same way I did because with her Rework even when Abigail died in Combat, Abigails flower never leaves Wendy’s inventory- You should Never need to craft a secondary Abigail Flower- Even though the option is there for Whatever reason.. (likely PvP) 

Its no longer this Character Lore Breaking thing to Me, Wendy’s Rework felt perfect to me in just about every way possible-

And even the original Lower HP=Higher Damage they had in mind for the 1st rework attempt was a great concept, it encouraged Abigail to fight for her Sister when Wendy was at Low Health.

The problem with that was: It also took what was generally an easy character to play and turned them into a Glass Canon & to get the most out of her you had to run around at dangerously low health.

Basically: it Was a complete U-Turn from the character being Easy because only the people who could master running around at critical Health wouldve got the most value out of her.

Now personally I LOVED that mechanic and would love to see it return on a character more fitting for having it.

But as far as Wendy’s already existing Downsides go: It’s Shadow Monsters- And Forgotten Knowledges update literally shows the characters just trigger a Shadow War that has them spawn more often.

Final Note: I wouldn’t mind that on a Uncompromising Mode-  that each time Abigail dies it rips away at Wendy’s Healthcore, I know I keep suggesting that- but lore wise it makes total sense.. Wendy’s heart was broken the first time she had to Witness losing Abigail, so every additional time she has to witness losing Abigail, Wendy’s heart would break a little more.

[Well-met]

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Honestly Wendy’s biggest downside prior to Abigails rework was having to chase every thing she wanted dead into Abigails ghost- Things she does now (Being told to chase that stuff) was things Wendy Mains already figured out how to do prior to the rework.

The largest part of that pre-rework downside was when Abigail suicides herself into Swamp Tentacle or died under a bosses feet, because the flower just fell to the ground in the spot Abby died in, and you either had to craft a new flower or.. risk your own life to rescue the one you had.

Personally I never created multiple flowers because to me it just felt like it broke the characters Lore, even though it was an OPTION I felt Abigails Flower was Special, and to have her spirit haunt any randomly crafted flower really destroyed that lore for Me.

Apparently Klei saw things the same way I did because with her Rework even when Abigail died in Combat, Abigails flower never leaves Wendy’s inventory- You should Never need to craft a secondary Abigail Flower- Even though the option is there for Whatever reason.. (likely PvP) 

Its no longer this Character Lore Breaking thing to Me, Wendy’s Rework felt perfect to me in just about every way possible-

This is not relevant with the topic.

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And even the original Lower HP=Higher Damage they had in mind for the 1st rework attempt was a great concept, it encouraged Abigail to fight for her Sister when Wendy was at Low Health.

The problem with that was: It also took what was generally an easy character to play and turned them into a Glass Canon & to get the most out of her you had to run around at dangerously low health.

Basically: it Was a complete U-Turn from the character being Easy because only the people who could master running around at critical Health wouldve got the most value out of her.

Now personally I LOVED that mechanic and would love to see it return on a character more fitting for having it.

The consensus was that nobody liked the mechanic because it was extremely counter productive to give an incentive for players to attack when their health says otherwise. This combined with the fact it's near impossible to not get hit in don't starve.

29 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But as far as Wendy’s already existing Downsides go: It’s Shadow Monsters- And Forgotten Knowledges update literally shows the characters just trigger a Shadow War that has them spawn more often.

Final Note: I wouldn’t mind that on a Uncompromising Mode-  that each time Abigail dies it rips away at Wendy’s Healthcore, I know I keep suggesting that- but lore wise it makes total sense.. Wendy’s heart was broken the first time she had to Witness losing Abigail, so every additional time she has to witness losing Abigail, Wendy’s heart would break a little more.

This is not relevant with the topic.

[Maxposting]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I wouldn’t mind that on a Uncompromising Mode-  that each time Abigail dies it rips away at Wendy’s Healthcore, I know I keep suggesting that- but lore wise it makes total sense.. Wendy’s heart was broken the first time she had to Witness losing Abigail, so every additional time she has to witness losing Abigail, Wendy’s heart would break a little more.

First off, Offtopic.
Second, UM is a mod. Go talk to annoy the mod creators despite you being a console user, unable to use mods.
Third, no, it's a methaphor, not literally her heart breaking.

[viberr]

30 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

First off, Offtopic.
 

the topic is called giving wendy a downside.how is it off topic to mention a idea for a downside?

 

30 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

Third, no, it's a methaphor, not literally her heart breaking.

but its the constant and the constant is magical so it would kinda make sense wendy lost some of her health core every time abigail dies also it isnt even that bad of downside to be honest. when ever i play wendy(which is a lot of the time)i basically never let abigail die and i would guess other people do the same right?

EDIT i would also just like to mention that the ignore user button exists so if you don't like mike why don't you use the ignore user button?

[Mike23Ua]

You guys think that when I say Uncompromising Mode that it’s referencing a PC mod that happened to burrow the same name? Lmao no.. But if it pleases you I will instead call it the Klei Official Hardcore Difficulty option, so you can avoid further confusion between Klei Official Content, And some PC created Mod- 

Discussing an extremely harsh downside I would like to see when playing this Klei Official Hardcore Difficulty option: Is 100% on topic of giving Wendy a Downside.

Even if such a mode does not yet exist within the game yet, it’s STILL a Downside, and a Downside I would like to see reserved exclusively for this (currently non-existing) Klei Official Hardcore Difficulty option.

Also I believe discussing Wendy’s ALREADY existing downsides when new content is being added that DIRECTLY effects that Downside is also 100% on-topic

Thank You have a great day. <3

[Well-met]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

You guys think that when I say Uncompromising Mode that it’s referencing a PC mod that happened to burrow the same name? Lmao no.. But if it pleases you I will instead call it the Klei Official Hardcore Difficulty option, so you can avoid further confusion between Klei Official Content, And some PC created Mod- 

Discussing an extremely harsh downside I would like to see when playing this Klei Official Hardcore Difficulty option: Is 100% on topic of giving Wendy a Downside.

Even if such a mode does not yet exist within the game yet, it’s STILL a Downside, and a Downside I would like to see reserved exclusively for this for this (currently non-existing) Klei Official Hardcore Difficulty option.

Also I believe discussing Wendy’s ALREADY existing downsides when new content is being added that DIRECTLY effects that Downside is also 100% on-topic

Thank You have a great day. <3

Shadows are not a special downside to Wendy. They affect everyone the same and are 100% avoided with basic sanity management. Wendy even has her own sanity station to make it even easier.

Also please stop referencing things that do not exist. It is very confusing and embarrassing.

[viberr]

6 minutes ago, Well-met said:

Shadows are not a special downside to Wendy. They affect everyone the same and are 100% avoided with basic sanity management. Wendy even has her own sanity station to make it even easier.

 

it is a downside tho.not a big one sure but a downside nevertheless. how is it a downside? well abigail can't attack the nightmare creatures meaning wendy will always do less damage to them because of her reduced damage 

 

9 minutes ago, Well-met said:

Also please stop referencing things that do not exist. It is very confusing and embarrassing.

i agree it is really confusing 

but how is it embarrassing?

[Mike23Ua]

9 minutes ago, Well-met said:

Shadows are not a special downside to Wendy. They affect everyone the same and are 100% avoided with basic sanity management. Wendy even has her own sanity station to make it even easier.

Also please stop referencing things that do not exist. It is very confusing and embarrassing.

You would be incorrect because WITHOUT Abigails Petal Bestowment buff Wendy’s original downside of hits weaker then normal is in 100% full effect while combating Shadows.

[Owlrust]

I think it's a tad late to be giving a downside for Wendy in my opinion, as we've long since passed the deadline; but if I had to give a downside, how does removing Abigail's ability to stun-lock enemies sound? Not entirely sure how much it would affect her in the grand scheme as it isn't a massive change (like adding a completely new mechanic or whatnot), but I think it would make Wendy players not rely completely on Abigail to fight in their stead. Although this is just my opinion, so please take it with a grain of salt.

[Mysterious box]

Honestly I feel like people put too much stock into Wolfgang and wx there are characters who do have perks on their level but are mostly ignored due to them being harder to manage or shareable.

[Mike23Ua]

Wendy still hits Weaker then Average without Abigails petal Buff, Abigail will not attack Insanity Monsters, Which Means- Wendy on long boating trips with low Sanity will be fighting off TerrorClaw (the new at Sea Insanity creature) By herself, Without Abigails help and with her hits Weaker downside fully in effect.

My point is that there is content in the game being added with each update (including but not limited to triggering a Shadow/Gashalt War) that directly impacts her already existing Downside.

And I’m pretty sure that Klei is designing these Reworks with future updates already planned out- And things I currently find mostly useless (like Wigfrids Fireproof song) may actually end up playing a HUGE role in the final completed product of Klei’s content plans.

For all I know that mostly useless fireproof song could become Incredibly useful when Summer gets its inevitable Rework.

If we continue this cycle of going back and Nerf/buff so and so because blah blah is better- Klei will never actually finish the other Reworks because they’re continuously Re-Reworking the ones they’ve reworked already.