JRup Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Hi! Here to see what you guys think about this issue with the much maligned sage hatch. (Yeah, let's throw objectivity out the window...) Dirt is cultivable soil, clay is too... Of course, clay can be turned into ceramic and then that into sand if you're into such roundabout ways. Being kinda new to this game (Steam accuses me of merrily evaporating 500+H into this oni), I've always wondered why sage hatches don't consume clay... Regular hatches do and it's odd that sage hatches lose that "organic" dietary item when morphing into sages (nope, not saying "evolving", we all know where that leads) Yes, I guess I'm being greedy. I love that particular conversion rate. What do you think about this? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 My view of it is that dirt is chock full of nutrients. Its always been weird, in my opinion, that plants will grow in clay planters. Of course, in the case of mealwood, you're fertilizing them with dirt, so... Anyway! That's my opinion! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 Clay is sand/regolith that has been fertilized by nutrients from polluted oxygen though... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 That is a valid point! I had forgotten for a moment how filters work in the game. Thanks for the reminder. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebbie Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Sage hatches are on-paper better for producing coal. The problem is just feeding multiple ranches of them. Igneous rock beats dirt both in available starting quantity and in producability (volcanos). It's almost worth it on forest starts, but in the end, pips just aren't very good at dirt production, and the whole ethanol system is cumbersome and barely power-positive. I do like them myself...when I'm not bothering to ranch them, and just storing dirt in a room with some wild ones so I've got a source of refined carbon forever. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Nebbie said: The problem is just feeding multiple ranches of them That's one of my angles on wanting to feed them clay... It's readily made and regolith literally just drops in for free... I've also seen some of those claymator thingmajigs so there's also that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxCD Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Well it seems someone's enjoying recently new emojis... Out of topic, sorry ! Ethanol chain production is the best way to feed sage hatchs. They eat so much... The problem then will be compost. A compost should provide 100g/s, except that it needs to be flipped a lot, and until a dup flips it, it doesn't produce dirt anymore. So even if you make an ethanol chain, "easy part", you're going to need nearly twice compost as the output suggests. So for 8 sage hatchs, you're going to need between 35 & 40 composts... I know what I'm talking about, it has been done on my actual game. I've planned for 16 sage hatchs (2 stables), I've never went over 4 hatchs per stable, as I've "only" 32 composts. Polluted dirt output is planned correctly, but it's piling up, as flipping needs a dup to move in. As follow, it uses a loooot of dup time. Well if you have 50 dups like me and everything automated, who cares, but otherwise, it hurts. Back to the OP, I agree, you should be able to feed sage hatchs with clay. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 IIRC Sages do eat polluted dirt too. That would introduce the offgassing happiness though... I guess making clay close to that lovely vacuumed biome on top of the map would also allow to ranch smooth hatches as well if one doesn't care about their efficiency in "processing" ores. (totally my plan... feed them hot stuff let the cool byproducts roll- lol.) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobe17 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Use two critter feeder. One for polluted dirt with 10kg of water at the bottom tile to prevent offgassing, another set to dirt as backup. this one along the wall, the other next to him Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxCD Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 3 hours ago, bobe17 said: Use two critter feeder. One for polluted dirt with 10kg of water at the bottom tile to prevent offgassing, another set to dirt as backup. this one along the wall, the other next to him Mmmh yeah indeed I forgot to specify that's into my living space, and the design isn't allowing some deo to join the game, so as I don't want pO2 into my base, I don't have other choices but that's a personal design purpose, I know. And I'm stubborn ^^ Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 6 hours ago, OxCD said: someone's enjoying recently new emojis Maybe a bit. I'm going for Bingo blackout on this thread. I also am enjoying this discussion. Sorry @Nebbie but I had to use the crying dupe somewhere. You said "pips just aren't very good..." so that was the best I could do (it is completely out of context). I had to find something to cry about. I would love to see sage hatches given some love. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 Hi! Glad to see those critters getting some love by all... So I guess that idea wasn't as far fetched... On slightly unrelated news now I'm working on a CO2 geyser "tamer" ... I pretty much nabbed the concept from the claymator and built around one of those vents... No sandbox mode.. just winging it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMule Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 19 hours ago, Nebbie said: Igneous rock beats dirt both in available starting quantity and in producability (volcanos). I think you're overestimating the output of an average volcano. Average volcano -> igneous rock -> 4.28 stone hatches. And the power you get from cooling down magma isn't much. 19 hours ago, Nebbie said: the whole ethanol system is cumbersome and barely power-positive. Not if you count coal too. 20 hours ago, OxCD said: So for 8 sage hatchs, you're going to need between 35 & 40 composts.. P dirt is organic. You need compost only if you're using domesticated trees. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1361961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebbie Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 19 hours ago, mathmanican said: Maybe a bit. I'm going for Bingo blackout on this thread. I also am enjoying this discussion. Sorry @Nebbie but I had to use the crying dupe somewhere. You said "pips just aren't very good..." so that was the best I could do (it is completely out of context). I had to find something to cry about. I would love to see sage hatches given some love. Sad is quite fitting, I love the tree-related production chains, but the dirt part is the worst; compost piles are still basically a noob trap and pip ranching isn't really taken seriously. It beats pufts, but that's a low bar. 5 hours ago, TheMule said: I think you're overestimating the output of an average volcano. ... Not if you count coal too. ... Oh, perhaps I am. I suppose it just takes so long to become an issue, normally there's a ridiculous buffer of igneous, and a ton of magma before geothermal gets started up. Plus, I overestimated the prevelance of volcanos, last year I was playing on a map with like 10 of them near my base. Ah, that is also something I forgot. In the base I had with tons of volcanos, I was bothering with sage hatch coal power. In fact, steel production from pokeshells instead from the polluted dirt is also power-positive, though I'm not sure how much (probably fairly low when averaged). And then there's slicksters for the CO2 instead of sieving it... This is what I love about the whole system relating to trees: It produces high-volume outputs of apparent waste products, but they tie in with ways you can use them, unlike the older production chains that tend to be a bit stingy (coal generator CO2 output is especially pitiful). I think early in game design, Klei was a little overly worried about players struggling to handle flooding their bases with waste. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1362049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 Do you really want to get me started on ranching pufts...? I've yet to ranch them and am already worried about what I call the dancing puft bug... But the hot tubs need their bleach stone.. Yes, a hot tub made of gold amalgam is a troll! And what's up with brine? Why not give domestic waterweed farming a buff if you use brine instead of sw for irrigation...? Etc. Etc... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1362051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebbie Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, JRup said: Do you really want to get me started on ranching pufts...? I've yet to ranch them and am already worried about what I call the dancing puft bug... But the hot tubs need their bleach stone.. Yes, a hot tub made of gold amalgam is a troll! And what's up with brine? Why not give domestic waterweed farming a buff if you use brine instead of sw for irrigation...? Etc. Etc... Oh, don't worry about the bug, the biggest issue is breeding them. You need to pen a prince in or else they'll lay prince eggs and give you a whole big generation of princes, but princes are awful bastards that destroy resources. Even with the prince in, you end up with pufts of the wrong type coming in, which just gums up everything. I started ranched dense pufts recently just to try it and it's been my worst ranching headache yet, worse than no-automation pokeshells was when I first tried those and worse than the shove voles I'm ranching in that same base (only a few floors above the printing pod...there's been a few escapes, as seemingly they can burrow diagonally). And that's without having to have a special gas type sealed off in there! You'll definitely need atmo suits, cause grooming takes ages, especially if you don't use a trick to limit where they can go. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1362053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmanican Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Nebbie said: they can burrow diagonally They're ninjas. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1362054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 28 minutes ago, Nebbie said: Even with the prince in, you end up with pufts of the wrong type coming in, which just gums up everything. The micro-managing of the whole enchilada is what's keeping me off puft ranching... I'll get there eventually. 25 minutes ago, Nebbie said: You'll definitely need atmo suits, cause grooming takes ages, especially if you don't use a trick to limit where they can go. I was thinking about doing the whole ranch as two vertical spaces with a joint tile that's flooded so they won't route through and get the whole tile amount from the room.... they still have to bonk their heads on any roof to "generate resources" / lay eggs so there's that... Suits will be a must with the squeaky ones. 38 minutes ago, Nebbie said: worse than no-automation pokeshells I put them on a platform on an open space where there is no dupe transit and keep them wild... I still get the random hallucinating dupe tho. The progress of the base is slow enough that I always print them crabo-stabo's when they come up.. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1362062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 On 8/10/2020 at 1:13 PM, OxCD said: As follow, it uses a loooot of dup time. Well if you have 50 dups like me and everything automated, who cares, but otherwise, it hurts. In other words, what we need is a better way to turn polluted dirt into clean dirt. 3 hours ago, Nebbie said: I started ranched dense pufts recently just to try it and it's been my worst ranching headache yet, Pufts are definitely a nuisance to ranch. I ended up having 4 rooms when I built my puft ranch. 1 had oxygen, 1 had chlorine, one had polluted oxygen. The 4th was an egg staging area. When pufts would lay eggs, they'd get sent to the staging area. After they hatched, they'd get moved into the appropriate room. I used transit tubes to prevent air leaks, and every 70 or so cycles I'd make sure all the rooms had a prince. The prince was the only part I didn't figure out how to automate at the time. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1362099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebbie Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 2 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said: ... ... The prince was the only part I didn't figure out how to automate at the time. Without a way to distinguish critters, there's no way to detect prince presence, so it would be rather difficult. I think you'd need an automatic way to move hatched princes from a special room in, that only allows one at a time, and that feeds into a timer timed to about how long they live before it lets in more; really roundabout. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1362131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Shark Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Nebbie said: Without a way to distinguish critters, there's no way to detect prince presence, so it would be rather difficult. I think you'd need an automatic way to move hatched princes from a special room in, that only allows one at a time, and that feeds into a timer timed to about how long they live before it lets in more; really roundabout. There, kinda is? You could set up an incubator to take in Puft Prince eggs, which means, if it's empty, Dupes will run towards it with a delivery. Use some clever automation (and architecture) to cancel the incubator load job, and when the dupes drop the egg, you know it'll be a puft prince. Going from that known egg to automatically replacing the prince is a harder matter. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1362150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 The problem is complicated, but not insurmountable. I've got too many projects at the moment to work on figuring it out right now. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1362170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungPaoTigger Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Given a map that is absolutely LOADED with swamp biome, a Polluted Water Geyser, and a couple metal volcanos, any advice on farming these under appreciated critters on slime and dirt cooked or filtered out of the polluted water? I’m still a bit new to this game and nobody has posted anything about this idea on YouTube... If people are willing to do a video on the topic, let me know and I’ll post the save file and map coordinates. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1381631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 Hi! There are a lot of threads that cover hatch farming. You can farm the sages as any other hatch, just take their diet into account. A simple way to feed them is just tossing "any" organics to them (Not clay, sniffle ) They are the only critter that has a 100% conversion ratio. So it all becomes coal in the end. I'd go for using the polluted dirt that comes from sieveing the polluted water because you already have a constant source for that... (Slime you can use to farm mushrooms, and regular dirt is also used in lots of other farming duties) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/120834-fluffy-sage-hatch-appreciation/#findComment-1381868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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