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Suggestion: Warly gains sanity from porta-crockpot


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I know, I know! Before we all dismiss this idea as making the game easier, hear me out a bit on why I think this might be a good idea.

We currently have examples (this youtube vid being the closest one I can find in a 1 minute search) of how Warly is the least-played non-DLC character. Reasons for this happening is that Warly is perceived to a great extent as a "switch character", one that players switch into to get benefits, and end up never playing with again afterwards. Reasons for this may include that Warly requires some knowledge of recipes in the crock pot, and this added bit discourages early-game players a fair bit. His crockpots are also useless to non-Warly players, meaning that his synergy with other players only really shine once late game kicks in. Most importantly, once the switch character's role is fulfilled, they offer nothing but a painful downside for players to deal with. Offering a small situational advantage around the character's mechanic may help mitigate the attrition of Warlys.

Early game players frequently deal with sanity issues, and this is further exacerbated with Warly's refusal to eat cooked cactus flesh and jerky. Standard ways of gaining back sanity have been slashed for him, and the only way he can regain this is through more complicated/involved recipes like ice cream or taffy (or the soon-to-come jelly salad). Late-game players also don't see the incentives of playing with Warly long-term because of the aforementioned sanity issues (more a hassle than a challenge), and also because once his recipes are completed, there are only disadvantages associated with playing Warly, and not much in the way of benefits. Because players tend to want to only use Warly's dishes for mass cooking, his portable crockpots tend to end up being stockpiled in a corner of the base that people otherwise rarely visit, which really defeats the whole point of its portability. These factors make Warly a rather niche character that most people might try for the sake of a challenge, or to drastically improve late-game aspects.

I propose that we can give Warly +1 sanity per dish cooked on his portable crockpot (bumpable to somewhere between 1-5 sanity for balance's sake), and give the portable crockpot a +5 sanity/min sanity aura while it's in use. (Warly can say something like, "It's starting to feel like home" and maybe some other randomized homey phrases.) This really makes the use of the portability of the crockpots, as people would huddle around it (especially in earlygame) while Warly cooks dishes, and incentivizes further playing with Warly in lategame as his crockpots give tangible benefits to being on the road (such as away-from-base dishmaking and minor sanity management abilities). This change wouldn't be gamebreaking, although we'd likely see Warly players create minor sanity stations with honey hams (and other long cooking recipes, thus incentivizing crock pot dish knowledge too) at some point. I think there's not much downside to this change either, other than giving an already-powerful switch character a boost; imo this is balanced out by just how painful it is that he can't eat more than two dishes at a time, and how jerky can't help him either. 

Let me know what your thoughts are down below! 

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Warly super fun. Even before his re-introduction he was super fun in shipwrecked, but he's really weak in DST as he offers very little to the team early unless you have a wormwood. 

He himself is fine as a character, it's the fact that his powers are largely derived from farms that really devalues his usage. Unless you and at least one other person on the team focus on them, or again, have a wormwood, Warly will have to settle on spring being the earliest he can give out any food buffs (aside from his simplest ones such as Honey crystals or glowberrys)

 Farms suck if you're trying to farm specific foods, wormwoods a bandaid for them. All this means is that IF you ever get around to making farm plots, or bought/know someone who bought wormwood, you'll just switch to Warly to make the food buffs, bundle wrap em, and switch back.

Tldr: Warly is a master chef, but isn't any better at farming/getting food then anyone else, so his best dishes/character traits will largely remain unused until mid-late game

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Yep, he does offer very little to the team in very early game, which is why I proposed a slight sanity increase mechanism. With a portable crockpot, Warly can synergize with Wigfrid right from day 1 on making use of those berries that people always find. Giving the group a slight sanity boost will also be a plus. I think my objective in this suggestion is to allow more earlygame players to use Warly, and not have as many lategame players switch from Warly after he's done. I think having less sanity gain than what Walter offers is a fair thing to do, since Sanity is a Walter thing; still having some though will give people more weight in considering Warly as part of earlygame. Or I hope that'd be the case at least lol

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40 minutes ago, Cheeto-Jesus said:

Yep, he does offer very little to the team in very early game, which is why I proposed a slight sanity increase mechanism. With a portable crockpot, Warly can synergize with Wigfrid right from day 1 on making use of those berries that people always find. Giving the group a slight sanity boost will also be a plus. I think my objective in this suggestion is to allow more earlygame players to use Warly, and not have as many lategame players switch from Warly after he's done. I think having less sanity gain than what Walter offers is a fair thing to do, since Sanity is a Walter thing; still having some though will give people more weight in considering Warly as part of earlygame. Or I hope that'd be the case at least lol

the problem is that giving sanity for porting the crockpot (i dont know how a crockpot can chill or make happy someone) doesnt solve his problem that is how grindy he is.

i think that making changes in the farms is the way to improve warly and wurt (she also needs some kings drops rework to be funnier) like changing the gather crops from farm animation (srly, with few farms you lose a lot of time just doing the animation) or how the bird works

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Winter is the problem for Warly in the early game alongside farm being a time consuming thing to rush and maintain. And most of his dishes are too expensive for what they do and becomes redundant when you consider there are cheaper methods to achieve what his food does.

Hypothetically, having spring as the second season would make farm rush more approachable but still far from having an engaging gameplay which is a turnoff for most people.

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1 hour ago, Sweaper said:

Winter is the problem for Warly in the early game alongside farm being a time consuming thing to rush and maintain. And most of his dishes are too expensive for what they do and becomes redundant when you consider there are cheaper methods to achieve what his food does.

Hypothetically, having spring as the second season would make farm rush more approachable but still far from having an engaging gameplay which is a turnoff for most people.

I mean, you can find a server that's not autumn to join, or change the starting season if it's your own server. Just because autumn's the default doesn't mean it's the only option.

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6 hours ago, Brago-sama said:

unless you have a wormwood. 

I think he would be way more useful if farming were reworked a bit; as it stands a lot of his good dishes are locked behind a large grind to make the farms, and it is by no means a convenient task to make them.

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What Warly lacks in greatness compared to others he makes up for in the fun department. There is no better feeling in this game than to slap your red hot flaming pot in the wilderness and cooking up a warm stew for the entire party. That sweet crock pot emits enough light Walter should reconsider what kind of light he's supposed to read his campfire stories at. When barbecue is in, the camp is complete.

 

If Warly would need to get better. It would be indirect, as nothing is more crippling than the farms we harvest. You can have enough honey crystals to spice your life but you couldn't get one garlic to save your life.

 

Or better yet merge him with Wolfgang. A super picky eater who enjoys cooking and eating some good food and makes up for it with a show of incomparable strength. The ballet in the box, the bullet in the gun, the inner glow to let you call your brother son.

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Warly definitely has a problem dealing with sanity.  Cooked green caps and cactus are not just early game sanity, but at any time in your play through it will probably be quicker to pick and cook a bunch of cactus or green caps rather than use crock pots to make batches of taffy (especially considering Warly's quick-cook bonus which is pretty much wasted on him lol.)  On top of that Warly can't just spam taffy either, his repeat-food-penalty is going to waste it.  I also don't like blanket sanity auras or easy bonuses...  Giving his crock pot a sanity aura, even if only for him, seems a bit too basic...

I think the best way to help him would be to give him new portable crock pot dishes.  A vegi-smoothy or tea could take similar ingredients the other players might use for recovering sanity and let him whip it up in a crock pot form so it meshes with his picky palate.  It should be a set too, have one specifically for green caps, another for cactus, blue caps, and maybe a flower petal tea.  Basically give him ways to take normal sanity items and turn them into something useful for him.  He still couldn't spam these so having a set would fit with his play style of rotating dishes.

Warly is never going to be more than a pick and switch character, and that is okay.  A lot of the cast are pick and switch.  We can't look at a character and think "what can we give this character that forces people to need them."  That's kinda the problem with Wolfgang.  His damage is so good you have to play as him...  There will be people who play who they like to play regardless of persistent advantages.  I think its better to just give these players a good experience and not fight against the "hard core meta or die" players.

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If one's scope is to make Warly fun to play in early game (mitigating the pick-n-switch aspect) and deal with his sanity to a certain extend, best way would be to give him back his ability to eat raw ingredients as well, with the intrinsic con of having a lot less food value - as in single-player/DS.

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17 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

If one's scope is to make Warly fun to play in early game (mitigating the pick-n-switch aspect) and deal with his sanity to a certain extend, best way would be to give him back his ability to eat raw ingredients as well, with the intrinsic con of having a lot less food value - as in single-player/DS.

please, no. if you take away his dietary restrictions then he is just a wendy that can also make powdercake-eating viable gameplay. i realize most people are too self-centered to think about supporting a character that has a deficiency in order to help them become a valuable party-member but making it so that that character is viable as a solo-player in a group-play setting seems like it is reinforcing the problematic behavior instead of fixing the actual problem(that players tend not to act altruistically until they have an excess of resources)

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I'm going to preface this  by saying this isn't meant to be a rant or targetting anyone when I say this.

I feel like the reason kiel is mostly moving away from impactful downsides is that when a downside is impactful people are less likely to play a character same with extra effort required perks. At the end of the day calling Warly a pick and swap is only a thing due to the fact his downside is noticable technically speaking Wicker's perks also aren't needed after your done using them but people don't mind playing her because downsides are so unnoticeable. Then there's the teamplay aspect Warly offers more team support than most of the cast by way of his portable kitchen, buff dishes, and lesser fridge. If nothing else he offers alot more than say Wolfgang who offers nothing to the team but is still popular yes he does 2x damage but your team can't bring that with them and 2x damage can easily be overshadowed by teamwork or other combat based perks/minions. Something else to keep in mind is a depending on how well you know crock recipes Warly's other perk becomes that he's a character who has to worry about hunger alot less than others while on the move.

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3 hours ago, gaymime said:

please, no. if you take away his dietary restrictions then he is just a wendy that can also make powdercake-eating viable gameplay. i realize most people are too self-centered to think about supporting a character that has a deficiency in order to help them become a valuable party-member but making it so that that character is viable as a solo-player in a group-play setting seems like it is reinforcing the problematic behavior instead of fixing the actual problem(that players tend not to act altruistically until they have an excess of resources)

That's how he was first conceived (70% of the Hunger from raw foods), nothing far-fetched. I found it hilarious when staffing Warly with berries and carrots repeatedly for his quotes ("I'm *gulp* sick *gulp* of this..*gulp*" - aka some compulsive bulimia gag) and the intake was minimal, at his worst I believe something around 5-6 food value per unit. This would create a relative incentive to play Warly from start-to-finish, not only as now - switch in the mid-/end-game segment to him, make his best recipes, drop for going back to Wolf/WX/Wicker/Wig. Else he will remain forever at the rock-bottom of picks and a niche tedious character, not for player-base bulk but only hardcore arduous fans with no hope otherwise.

And yes, bulk player-base doesn't operate in teams or with team-mentalities, not even at advanced levels for various reasons, ranging from having no clue to finding it more efficient in solo-ing. Making crutch-needing characters won't ever incentives people at large in actually helping/collaborating and whatnot (net-positives do that.. to a certain degree). Yet if purpose is just another hard character, ok - but then don't expect skin sales off it in future; because chances are costs in designing those skins won't meet sufficient sales to justify it on account of being a very unpopular character (minimal sales).

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6 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

-big snip-

except that is ignoring the problems of the system to whine about how the character is the problem. it's not about bringing warly to the same default position as the most popular players or about reverting him back to his ds status, it is about changing the mentality of the community to be more social and less competitive with resources. warly is a very fine character when his needs are accounted for and he is allowed to work cooperatively with others. reworking him to be a solo character is going about things the wrong way

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13 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the problem is that giving sanity for porting the crockpot (i dont know how a crockpot can chill or make happy someone) doesnt solve his problem that is how grindy he is.

i think that making changes in the farms is the way to improve warly and wurt (she also needs some kings drops rework to be funnier) like changing the gather crops from farm animation (srly, with few farms you lose a lot of time just doing the animation) or how the bird works

This exactly. I made a reply about this a month ago that I think would improve the looks of the world, warly, and farming for everyone:

Spoiler

Warly is fine, as I said in other topics already there are just a few changes to be made that I believe would satisfy both the players that dislike the current status of Warly and those that love him, without making him OP, and respecting his gameplay:

Global changes:

- Caged birds should give a guaranteed second specific seed when fed with a specific vegetable. The third possible seed is the one that should have RNG chances. I think we all agree this would be more of a global QOL that would benefit all farming for everyone, not just Warly.

- Different vegetables should grow naturally throughout the land, like carrots do now. It would give more life to the land, it would make more sense for a natural enviroment, and different biomes and seasons could have a tendency for specific vegetables. This won't replace farming as the vegetables do not grow around in large quantities and take a long time to respawn, but it would help greatly with the early game ingredients collection, and would make foraging for ingredients a bit more diverse.

- Warly specific: Special food effects should last longer on him. By how much is a matter of debate, I say 50% longer duration but it could be 100% more duration too. Thats a matter of testing it out. EG: glowberrymousse makes anyone glow for 2 days, he'd glow for 3. Whatever duration his foods have on a Wilson, he'd get ×1.5 of time (or x2). Just a little buff to be special when among other characters that have specific perks and ate your foods too. And maybe a reason to stay as Warly in case you don't like him much.

 

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6 minutes ago, gaymime said:

...is about changing the mentality of the community to be more social and less competitive with resources..

Good luck with that. My take: won't ever happen. Because is about human nature as a whole: selfishness is engraved in our behavior. Likewise trust issues (trust is earned, not freely given: most Warly players have no clue about his recipes and one would only handicap themselves if taking those Warlies to camp - saw it myself in pubs, how those randoms would make Ratatouille and Wet Goop en mass even after being asked if they know Warly recipes.. or to stop). Plus competitiveness for resources - a given.

In conclusion one either is a self-sufficient knowledgeable Warly (advanced and into hardcore) player that can also be an asset to some theoretical team (if they so choose) or, most likely, a liability on the server - because of a consistent handicap early-to-mid game, which massively affects bulk player-base (and thus Warly rock-bottom "pickability").

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9 hours ago, CameoAppearance said:

I mean, you can find a server that's not autumn to join, or change the starting season if it's your own server. Just because autumn's the default doesn't mean it's the only option.

Public servers in my region mostly reset during winter and starting as Warly during winter to get to spring is a bigger struggle compared to any other character and not worth doing it since this comes with plenty of problems. Good players won't care about base building and will do whatever they want and not worry about the future seasons base-wise because it's a waste of time in publics, while casual players will be worrying about food and only that during winter. Now, because most of the Warly recipes requires farms and no one builds them ever you now need to gather plenty of materials in a season where you have only a torch to survive until a bird brings you enough flint and even then you'll need to find a lot of rocks that are unmined by the people who joined before winter, oh and grass, lots of it, all those absurd amount of materials just so you can use it during spring day 1-2 to make the most out of it. Now, remember when I said good players doesn't care about the situation of the main base and casuals are too worried about food to do something else, well here comes the lack of ice flingomatic, they might have 1 built if you're lucky enough, if that happens you'll get to summer and others won't regen the world (and even with ice f. they still might want to regen it to get the easy going autumn), but with only one ice f. you now either need to have a very limited number of farms or build in the caves and deal with loading screens every time you want to harvest it, unless you want to base alone, but then what even is the point in joining public servers.

See how many ifs there are when playing on public server as Warly if you want to use farms for not much advantages considering his best recipes don't need farms.

If farms weren't so demanding it would help Warly early game playstyle be a little more varied, because right now meat is the way to go early game and farms is just a major waste of time even for him unless farming is all you want to do. Get farm to be less expensive and boom, you have plenty of sanity recipes outside of winter that is somewhat worthwhile rushing it first season if you join before day 15. But then winter comes and your sanity restoring food as Warly is mostly limited to fish, another slow and inefficient way to get food.

13 hours ago, Cheeto-Jesus said:

I think my objective in this suggestion is to allow more earlygame players to use Warly

Warly will be a niche character as long as his food nitpicking is a thing, casuals don't want to struggle with it and veterans don't want to waste much time with it.

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24 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Good luck with that. My take: won't ever happen. Because is about human nature as a whole: selfishness is engraved in our behavior. Likewise trust issues (trust is earned, not freely given: most Warly players have no clue about his recipes and one would only handicap themselves if taking those Warlies to camp - saw it myself in pubs, how those randoms would make Ratatouille and Wet Goop en mass even after being asked if they know Warly recipes.. or to stop). Plus competitiveness for resources - a given.

In conclusion one either is a self-sufficient knowledgeable Warly (advanced and into hardcore) player that can also be an asset to some theoretical team (if they so choose) or, most likely, a liability on the server - because of a consistent handicap early-to-mid game, which massively affects bulk player-base (and thus Warly rock-bottom "pickability").

This assumes that inexperienced players who screw up with crockpots only pick Warly which couldn't be further from the truth and you don't need to be a vet to use Warly properly he does not use any more resources than other characters and lastly people refusing to use the wiki when they don't know a recipe is more of player problem than a Warly one odds are they would have made those with or without Warly.

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16 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

snip

altruism is one of the defining features of our species and has been recorded in anthropological digs many times as well as seen directly right now all over the world in situations where people are struggling. selfishness is part and parcel within the human experience but this dour thought that it is innate and not trained is a bit blind to humans as a whole. the issue is how players are trained to survive on their own both in the game's mechanics as well as in the general atmosphere of survival games as a whole. changing how the narrative of the game is presented is the key not some nebulous watery feeling that if people just sucked a little less there would be no issue, hell i have played wes every single day and something in the ballpark of 3/5ths of the players i encounter have acted generously towards me without asking and most have been civil to me even after finding out i am a newbie at dst or have done something to benefit me(and noone has been mean or cruel). the only times i haven't been treated well is when i have been silent and once on my first day when i made a fistful of jam(and even then they explained why it was a poor idea).

i think if people can be reasonable towards someone playing a perkless character(it is generally understood all wes players are at a stat disadvantage) then a more generous perspective given towards a p&s player could make him more viable for play. if players had the mindset to aide a warly early-game(even if it is hard) for his valuable aspects then he'd be chosen much more often

 

 

of course if you wanted to just give him some valuable special thing that could help a newbie change the code so that a warly that would otherwise produce wet-goop gets a technically consumable item instead(one with low benefit like a basic soup that does 3/3/3)

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6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This assumes that inexperienced players who screw up with crockpots only pick Warly which couldn't be further from the truth and you don't need to be a vet to use Warly properly he does not use any more resources than other characters and lastly people refusing to use the wiki when they don't know a recipe is more of player problem than a Warly one odds are they would have made those with or without Warly.

Bulk player-base is mostly newbies/noobs/casuals. They screw up Crockpot dishes as default. And will screw up Warly dishes even more, only by sheer numbers. But Warly cons exacerbate this aspect. And yes, Warly in fact does use way more resources than other characters because of his food variety-required con. As a non-Warly you can go with raw food (carrots, berries etc) or Meatballs only. If going as Warly with one type of food, you need a whole lot more of it because every consecutive intake will decrease food value - this is the crux of Warly's con. If you want to alternate Meatballs, Meaty Stew and Monster Tartare (with sanity and hp penalty) in early-game (no farms) you still need to hunt a lot more than other characters. Thus yes, as Warly you do use more resources.

And reading some 3rd party game info shouldn't by any means be a requirement to master said game. DS/T was build on trial&error principle. If this isn't the primary driving force... then is a personal preference. Sure one can be seen as handicaping themselves if part of bulk player-base, yet most players don't even have a clue about DS/T Wikia (or these forms for the matter).

 

 

22 minutes ago, gaymime said:

altruism is one of the defining features of our species and has been recorded in anthropological digs many times as well as seen directly right now all over the world in situations where people are struggling. selfishness is part and parcel within the human experience but this dour thought that it is innate and not trained is a bit blind to humans as a whole. the issue is how players are trained to survive on their own both in the game's mechanics as well as in the general atmosphere of survival games as a whole. changing how the narrative of the game is presented is the key not some nebulous watery feeling that if people just sucked a little less there would be no issue, hell i have played wes every single day and something in the ballpark of 3/5ths of the players i encounter have acted generously towards me without asking and most have been civil to me even after finding out i am a newbie at dst or have done something to benefit me(and noone has been mean or cruel). the only times i haven't been treated well is when i have been silent and once on my first day when i made a fistful of jam(and even then they explained why it was a poor idea).

i think if people can be reasonable towards someone playing a perkless character(it is generally understood all wes players are at a stat disadvantage) then a more generous perspective given towards a p&s player could make him more viable for play. if players had the mindset to aide a warly early-game(even if it is hard) for his valuable aspects then he'd be chosen much more often

 

 

of course if you wanted to just give him some valuable special thing that could help a newbie change the code so that a warly that would otherwise produce wet-goop gets a technically consumable item instead(one with low benefit like a basic soup that does 3/3/3)

The altruism-egoism/selfishness aspect of humanity is debatable. Some schools of thought consider altruism as a covert form of egoism (empathy is to self-benefit/advantageous in the end). Also theoretical help one gives to others goes till one establishes detrimental incompetence/malice helped one can posses, that might "drag down" the helper - saw this in many pubs and various circumstances too. And this is the main builder of distrust. Again, Warly's cons exacerbate all above.

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1 hour ago, ShadowDuelist said:

This exactly. I made a reply about this a month ago that I think would improve the looks of the world, warly, and farming for everyone:

  Hide contents

Warly is fine, as I said in other topics already there are just a few changes to be made that I believe would satisfy both the players that dislike the current status of Warly and those that love him, without making him OP, and respecting his gameplay:

Global changes:

- Caged birds should give a guaranteed second specific seed when fed with a specific vegetable. The third possible seed is the one that should have RNG chances. I think we all agree this would be more of a global QOL that would benefit all farming for everyone, not just Warly.

- Different vegetables should grow naturally throughout the land, like carrots do now. It would give more life to the land, it would make more sense for a natural enviroment, and different biomes and seasons could have a tendency for specific vegetables. This won't replace farming as the vegetables do not grow around in large quantities and take a long time to respawn, but it would help greatly with the early game ingredients collection, and would make foraging for ingredients a bit more diverse.

- Warly specific: Special food effects should last longer on him. By how much is a matter of debate, I say 50% longer duration but it could be 100% more duration too. Thats a matter of testing it out. EG: glowberrymousse makes anyone glow for 2 days, he'd glow for 3. Whatever duration his foods have on a Wilson, he'd get ×1.5 of time (or x2). Just a little buff to be special when among other characters that have specific perks and ate your foods too. And maybe a reason to stay as Warly in case you don't like him much.

 

Totally agree but i always will insist that farms has a largeee animation when you pick up the veggies. Is so tedious. You suggestions+a little change to the farms and warly will be more than perfect (in numbers he is actually op but in practise Zzzzz)

 

 

Edit: i said tons of times. Characters shouldnt be balanced because new players exists. There is a good character pool to choose, there is no need of picking a character that you will not be able to control.

I dont play maxwell because i cant kill bosses with perfect kite, a noob shouldnt take warly if he doesnt know more recipes than meatballls

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22 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Edit: i said tons of times. Characters shouldnt be balanced because new players exists. There is a good character pool to choose, there is no need of picking a character that you will not be able to control.

I dont play maxwell because i cant kill bosses with perfect kite, a noob shouldnt take warly if he doesnt know more recipes than meatballls

Ok. As stated, one can have enough "hard characters" for people fancying them. And of course it will be a tiny minority (seen in total server picks). And most likely, based on bulk sales, those characters will get few if any skins (tiny apologist minority, tiny theoretical future sales, lacking profits).

And then people (vocal tiny minority) will complain their favorite hard characters have no skins. That's ok as well. Happens.

But, time and again, we get threads like this one: other people asking buffs for the "hard new characters" that under-perform bulk-player pickings-wise - Warly, Wormwood, Wurt. For various reasons. And the tiny apologist minority doing the.. apology for status quo. Gold right there.

I for one find this cycle quite funny. Mostly the demanding of skins part for hard characters :rolleyes:

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