Tallbird behavior tweak

[Excess]

Tallbirds are pacific, unless you threaten their eggs. They get aggressive in a defensive way, unlike tentacles that actively try to smack you to death.

As many stated, stealing eggs is way too easy once you figure out the "safe zone". This leads to an unbalance in the research department, as eggs are rich in both proteins and RP.

Another thing to notice is that once you kill a tallbird, she is dead for good (heard that zombies? HUH?). Meaning, no more eggs.

Instead of nerfing the eggs RP, I propose a slight tweak to their behavior, to balance the risk/reward meter on stealing eggs.

Make them aggro the second you steal their eggs, no matter where they are. Make them chase you (moving faster than you, so they'll catch you) and attack you. BUT, once you hit them a couple of times, instead of dying, they should have a self-preservation instinct and run off (back to the nest?)

This way, you'll get the egg fairly, suffering from a couple of scratches; no more free fried egg with those french fries. And you won't have to kill them (actually, it would be rather difficult to kill, as they should heal over time; you would have to actively hunt them and deliberately attack them), meaning you'll get more eggs in the future.

Ideas? Flaws? Death threats? BRING THEM! (in an orderly manner preferably)

[mobius187]

Well I'm certainly one of those people who complained about the tall bird eggs being too easy to steal, and half the problem is that once you stole the egg you could outrun the tall bird... which seemed odd, as one might imagine something with legs that long might do better at running/chasing.

I also concur that increasing the tall bird so out outpaces the player is a good tweak. Just like how the werepigs can outrun you... which I found out the hard way. I would increase the damage caused by the tall bird, and then add in the self-preservation logic when it's dropped to, say, 25% health. Also, maybe it wouldn't lay another egg until its injuries were healed.

Furthermore, there should be a way to stealth-steal eggs. Maybe something like a "duck blind"...

[LadyD]

I live next to two tall birds. I chose to. Thinking hey cant be that bad...

OH but they ARE.

You dont have to steal to get hit. Sometimes they are just in the mood to smack you.

They also hit rather hard at the moment.

They are persistent in that everytime i come to close they take offense.

If I stay they get violent.

DONT camp next to birds.

[Shadoweangel]

You have stolen the words from my mouth and the thoughts from my mind Excess! The best I feel I can provide at this point is my unwavering support for your plan of action! I've never had a Tallbird go aggro unless I was close to its nest, the Tallbird itself, or had stolen its egg... Just lucky perhaps? Haven't gotten hit yet either, as they always perform their little "I'ma chargin mah feet" dance.

[Excess]

I also concur that increasing the tall bird so out outpaces the player is a good tweak.

[...]

Furthermore, there should be a way to stealth-steal eggs. Maybe something like a "duck blind"...

When they were first introduced, they did outrun you. They only stopped to hit you, but if you kept running they would miss you.

They probably nerfed their speed because they would never loose their aggro otherwise. But if you started hitting them they would be stunned and eventually die without hitting you once. Kinda like the spiketacles used to slaughter us in the first place, only this time we are the predators.

Also, there is kind of a stealth way to steal their eggs. Grab them at night. They do get up an run after you, but they are all sleepy so you can get away easily.

This bird needs to be tweaked. They don't pose a threat right now, nor any interesting interaction, besides getting hit for free if you get to close, but even that is pretty much announced with the "scratch the floor" dance.

[Kaliflour]

Agreed. Tallbirds are mostly harmless.

I have yet to be eviscerated by one and I have stolen several eggs. This is unacceptable.

[mobius187]

When they were first introduced, they did outrun you. They only stopped to hit you, but if you kept running they would miss you...They probably nerfed their speed because they would never loose their aggro otherwise...

Really? Well I suppose that since the tall birds never respawned, like the werepigs, they are being treated as a more important resource. It's good to know this history about the tall bird. Thanks for letting me know.

Also, there is kind of a stealth way to steal their eggs. Grab them at night. They do get up an run after you, but they are all sleepy so you can get away easily.

Hmmm. That's also interesting. Maybe the problem isn't with the tall bird, per say, maybe it's with the actual stealing. Maybe the nests need to be less accessible... like placing them right near the edge of the island (cutting off that avenue of access to players) and then having the tall birds patrol more closely to the nests. If players can only approach from one direction and the tall birds are guarding their nests closely during the day, then night raiding would become the best option if the player didn't want to kill the tall birds.

[ocelot113]

Ok now they are too powerful. If you do happen to aggro one which I just did, (early game before armor or anything to defend myself) and I was 2 shot, after running away for like an entire continent. It kept chasing and never lost interest. Never touched an egg seems how there were none. But yeah, if you happen to run across them before you make armor it's game over cause it never stops chasing.

I'll wait til they tweak them more to get back onto it. It's just annoying now and not balanced for people coming into the game. It's like the yeti from ski free.

Edited November 28, 2012 by ocelot113

[Q is for cucumber]

As many creatures in their peaceful state, they are territorial. IN THIS CASE, THEY WILL ATTEMPT TO SMACK YOU. RIP tallbird 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Your sacrifice was not in vain. And your eggs are tasty and full of knowledge.

[Jov]

I agree, they are too hostile. Perhaps they should only behave more aggressively if you are near their nests. Another great solution would be to simply increase the amount of time it takes to loot a nest of it's eggs. This could be rationalized by the weight and delicacy of the egg.

[501105]

Hehe, I love the direction of this thread. First they are too docile and now they are basically death itself. I like how agressive they now are, they are no longer letting you have their eggs.

[Palpetinus]

I agree, they are too hostile. Perhaps they should only behave more aggressively if you are near their nests. Another great solution would be to simply increase the amount of time it takes to loot a nest of it's eggs. This could be rationalized by the weight and delicacy of the egg.

Hmm that makes me think about Monster Hunter.

Maybe let the tallbirds like that, slow and deadly, but instead make YOU slower while carrying the egg until you cook or research it. It would also be logic, considering the weight such a thing should have.

[mobius187]

So all the complaints about tallbirds finally got them some changes? I don't mind them being aggressive, but I think it should be based on what you've done. Did you just wander too close? They should chase after you a distance to "scare you off" and then run back to their nest. Did you steal their egg? Then it should chase you until either you kill them or drop the egg. If you drop the egg it should sit on it, cause the egg to disappear, then run back to its nest a perform the egg laying action (i.e. returning the egg).

Also, now that there are sleep darts I assume this is another way to hunt for tallbird eggs.

[Lezli]

Most birds will be aggressive around their nest, and will chase those that take eggs, but not to the point of being suicidal. You must eat, and its rational that if a Tall-bird chases you for over a day, it would be getting to the point of being silly/suicidal. Although Tall-birds don't actually eat in game, I think that chasing you for over a day is excessive and a poorly thought out behavior (not intending to be offensive here) for the Tall-birds (it fits well with the hyena-dog things though, as they attack anything and everything, instead of ignoring other sources of food and b-lining it straight for you).

I am confused as to why such an extreme change was made, instead of just scaling things up a bit, THEN seeing peoples reactions and determining whether more is needed. What they did was completely reverse the situation from one extreme to another. XD

Edit: Omg, I miss-spelled their...

[mobius187]

Most birds will be aggressive around their nest, and will chase those that take eggs, but not to the point of being suicidal. You must eat, and its rational that if a Tall-bird chases you for over a day, it would be getting to the point of being silly/suicidal.

Yup. I agree there has to be some logic to their actions.

Although Tall-birds don't actually eat in game, I think that chasing you for over a day is excessive and a poorly thought out behavior (not intending to be offensive here) for the Tall-birds

In another thread I suggested animals should eat. Beefalo should eat grass, and when they do, "create" manure. For tallbirds I suggested berries from berry bushes. All you would need to do is spawn a few bushes near their nests, and if they spot you taking berries, well, maybe that will piss them off too.

(it fits well with the hyena-dog things though, as they attack anything and everything, instead of ignoring other sources of food and b-lining it straight for you).

Ah yes, the "hounds".

I am confused as to why such an extreme change was made, instead of just scaling things up a bit, THEN seeing peoples reactions and determining whether more is needed. What they did was completely reverse the situation from one extreme to another. XD

Tallbirds are the extreme. In fact, I'm told when I originally complained about them being too passive, prior to this recent update, I was told they were ultra hostile before too. Then they were toned down... and now they've been ramped up again. It's like a see-saw.

I'm sure players such as myself are partially to blame, as we posted lots of "stealing tallbird eggs... super-easy!" everywhere and as the eggs are powerful (in terms of a food supply) they must have felt it was a better idea to make the birds more dangerous again. Of course the real solution would be to model the tallbird behavior after more logical responses.

Maybe Kevin will start up a topic along these lines... as he's an AI Wrangler.