MOGOM VI : issue with my setup or mechanism change ?

[OxCD]

Hi !

I tried the @Yunru set-up  : the 6th MOGOM.

 

My issue is dups are mopping so fast that 360kg of polluted water isn't enough to give enough time for the liquid to overflow the dup.

 

Everything is working fine except this. The dup comes. He mops the pH²O. The liquid sensor triggers On, so flow comes In. But a lot of time before the pH²O falls on the door, mopping is finished, order has been closed, and dup is already leaving the chamber.

 

Anything I'm missing ?

My automation is a bit different for the bottle dropping because I just want to enable or disable access depending on the pressure.

 

 

Thanks folks

[bobucles]

Dupes only enter the room to begin the errand, right? A dupe sensor may give the extra time needed to begin pumping.

Another option is to place an on/off valve directly touching the liquid vent. Instead of waiting 10'ish seconds for the water to drip out, it only takes 2.

[OxCD]

21 minutes ago, bobucles said:

Dupes only enter the room to begin the errand, right? A dupe sensor may give the extra time needed to begin pumping.

Another option is to place an on/off valve directly touching the liquid vent. Instead of waiting 10'ish seconds for the water to drip out, it only takes 2.

Yep, dups are only coming in to mop.

They are mopping SO fast I'm not even sure a shut-off just before the vent would be fast enough... I'll consider dup sensor, that's a really good idea, but automation will need a rework.

 

EDIT : I do confirm, they are to fast for the shut-off. The errand is still completed, the mop disappear.

[Lifegrow]

I'd split the input feed to two vents personally - I find that keeps the mop command.

[OxCD]

6 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

I'd split the input feed to two vents personally - I find that keeps the mop command.

Erk. But then you'll need a constant flow.

Another issue appears : dups are mopping so fast the hydro sensor do'nt even have time to switch from Enable to Disable..

I'm suspecting some mechanisms have changed since original Yunru's post.

[Lifegrow]

Just now, OxCD said:

Erk. But then you'll need a constant flow.

Another issue appears : dups are mopping so fast the hydro sensor do'nt even have time to switch from Enable to Disable..

I'm suspecting some mechanisms have changed since original Yunru's post.

No you wouldn't - just bridge from the output of the reservoir into a section of pipe that leads to 2 vents on opposite ends.

How you fit that in is another story  

[OxCD]

Just now, Lifegrow said:

No you wouldn't - just bridge from the output of the reservoir into a section of pipe that leads to 2 vents on opposite ends.

How you fit that in is another story  

Ok get it. But automation will need a re-re-rework ^^ At the moment the MOGOM VI is going to be just a taste of the idea hehe.

Umph.. . I tried that, The mop command remained few seconds, then the dups is going to fast again.

Mmmh seems to work like this

[Lifegrow]

The vents need to be equidistant to the mop command. In your first try the left vent is falling for a tile, the right vent is IN the tile  

Thats why the second attempt worked.

[OxCD]

Last puzzle ^^ @Lifegrow

Journey has ended, for both dups. Flow was continuous, the left one left the room, mop command stays. But when the one at the right left (and only when he decided to begin to move) the mop command disappear... Damned ! Same situation, different result. It happened two times, exactly same issue, but first time it was the opposite : left mop command disappear. Nothing logical here for me.

[Lifegrow]

[OxCD]

Ok what I guess was happening could be a conflict between the mop command and the fact the door below was opening, even if the dup already stops acting. The first dup leaves, he triggers the pressure plate, which is opening the door at the same time the other dup was finishing his errand. Unfortunate coincidence, but plausible. (then I'm not even sure the mop command would stay if the door below is opening WHILE the other dups is still mopping).

I've tried dup sensor to disable door opening as long as a dup is inside the room, first result : it works.

And yes, it's a mess now ^^

[mathmanican]

Have you tried putting in a valve to send 5kg/s to each side?  Then both sides will output 5kg/s instead of alternating 10kg/2s. 

Also, the current setup you have guarantees that when liquid leaves the vents, they instantly join the tiles every 5th tick. @Yunru's original build, with the vent one space above the floor, causes the liquid to leave the vent in drip form (doesn't interact with game till it finishes falling).  Liquids, while in drip form do not synchronize exactly with the game clock, so you will have a more sporadic appearance of liquid (which could be very beneficial for maintaining a mop command).  With a liquid value to split the flow, you have one side in sync with the game, and another side out of sync. These two changes may provide enough to fix the issue, without all that automation. 

[OxCD]

56 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Have you tried putting in a valve to send 5kg/s to each side?  Then both sides will output 5kg/s instead of alternating 10kg/2s. 

Also, the current setup you have guarantees that when liquid leaves the vents, they instantly join the tiles every 5th tick. @Yunru's original build, with the vent one space above the floor, causes the liquid to leave the vent in drip form (doesn't interact with game till it finishes falling).  Liquids, while in drip form do not synchronize exactly with the game clock, so you will have a more sporadic appearance of liquid (which could be very beneficial for maintaining a mop command).  With a liquid value to split the flow, you have one side in sync with the game, and another side out of sync. These two changes may provide enough to fix the issue, without all that automation. 

I will think about the valve, that's a good idea   If I find space for it...

If I get you're advice, it changes my setup to the one I started with, above. I've followed Yunru's setup but wasn't able to make it work...

[mathmanican]

16 minutes ago, OxCD said:

it changes my setup to the one I started with, above. I've followed Yunru's setup but wasn't able to make it

The bridge can be removed if you use a valve. Also, using a shutoff shrinks the amount of pipe you have from the sensor to the vents, so that could be a problem.  Yunru also found that the pnematic door was important in maintaining the mop command. If the goal is oxygen, and not strength training, then I would have a single mopper clean up the liquid from 4 tanks all at once. If you want strength training, then you'll have to deal with this. 

By the way, liquid flows faster to the left than the right, so having liquid appear on the left side means it will take longer to mop. More on that in a bit (just about done with my first liquid mechanics post). 

[bobucles]

I usually have problems getting dupes to stop mopping! When there's extra fluid pouring in from the side they'll end up mopping 50kg, 10kg, 1kg, all the way down to like 11g at a time. Maybe that's something you can take advantage of?

[OxCD]

47 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

The bridge can be removed if you use a valve. Also, using a shutoff shrinks the amount of pipe you have from the sensor to the vents, so that could be a problem.  Yunru also found that the pnematic door was important in maintaining the mop command. If the goal is oxygen, and not strength training, then I would have a single mopper clean up the liquid from 4 tanks all at once. If you want strength training, then you'll have to deal with this. 

By the way, liquid flows faster to the left than the right, so having liquid appear on the left side means it will take longer to mop. More on that in a bit (just about done with my first liquid mechanics post). 

Don't you think two ph2o bottles can produce faster than one ?

As complicated as it is, it seems my setup is working fine. I'm afraid to fiddle with it again ^^

[mathmanican]

46 minutes ago, OxCD said:

Don't you think two ph2o bottles can produce faster than one ?

A single dupe can mop almost 150kg/s (so 15 liquid storage tanks all emptying at once).  I've build it with only 4 tanks (40kg/s) and a single dupe, moping on a single tile, is just as fast as 4 dupes mopping on 4 tiles.  The MOGOM you are copying is half there for strength training.  If all you really want is oxygen, then you only need one mopping tile, and as many vents as you can fit into a tiny space without exceeding 150kg on the mop tile. You can mop enough PH2O once to last 1000 cycles (provided you have enough water). 

[OxCD]

5 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

A single dupe can mop almost 150kg/s (so 15 liquid storage tanks all emptying at once).  I've build it with only 4 tanks (40kg/s) and a single dupe, moping on a single tile, is just as fast as 4 dupes mopping on 4 tiles.  The MOGOM you are copying is half there for strength training.  If all you really want is oxygen, then you only need one mopping tile, and as many vents as you can fit into a tiny space without exceeding 150kg on the mop tile. You can mop enough PH2O once to last 1000 cycles (provided you have enough water). 

Yep but what about the ph2o produced (indeed my setup is for po2 => puft) ? Isn't it supposed to off-gas more if I have two bottes instead of one ?

[bobucles]

3 minutes ago, OxCD said:

Isn't it supposed to off-gas more if I have two bottes instead of one ?

Free flowing water is limited to around 1000kg/tile, so there's only so much pO2 they can give. Bottles don't have a real cap, so the water can keep stacking and end up releasing huge amounts of gas. 

As I understand it, the amount of decay is a percentage of the polluted water in the tile. One bottle vs. two bottles won't make too much difference, at least not until the gas starts getting over pressured.

[beowulf2010]

19 hours ago, OxCD said:

Yep but what about the ph2o produced (indeed my setup is for po2 => puft) ? Isn't it supposed to off-gas more if I have two bottes instead of one ?

In my experience, bottled pH2O offgases at a fixed rate based on the mass of the bottle so 2 bottles at half the mass each of 1 bottle will produce the same amount of pO2.

[Yunru]

If your dupes are mopping too fast, try raising the threshold on the hydro sensor (this unfortunately also means installing valve so as to prevent it from overfilling too).

 

I might work on a retro version that abandons the entire mopping bit. 

[StoneToad]

If you widen the water trough to 4 wide, it should keep the mop command up to at least 9 strength.  Changing the airflow tile on the left to a mesh tile worked for me since I had only one bay.  It did mess up the gas flow though.

Here's a picture for the mesh tile placement I'm talking about.

Interestingly as long as you don't lose the mop command, you don't need to keep the water level under 150kg.

As far as two bottles vs one, bottles stop offgassing if the pressure is over 1800g, so it's easy to get more gas from multiple bottles in an open system because of how slow gas flow is.  Which is why I have a liquid-gas bypass pump on the >60t stack of 3 bottles in the picture.