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My "No Wheez, no AETN" Challenge Base


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i often read stuff "Like can't do, no wheezewort access" "Base overheats, no wheezeworts, help!" so i created a base, where i said: **** it, who actually needs those plants anyway

Now that the new beta is out, i stopped playing it, even if i didn't managa some of the stuff i wanted to do, but at least i can show what i have done

Oh and all off it is pre space tech, since i never actually build a rocket.

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Generel overview:

Heat citadel got some nice little gizmos, i am never seeing anywhere else and often, i hear people telling it is impossible to do without x, whatever x is.

Let's start off with the core cooling system, the first system build:

The toilet cooling loop:

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Sieve gives of 40°C water, always, but why should i let water that hot in my base? So i run it by an aquatuner first, to cool it down to 26°C, and then it goes to the toilets etc. The toilets absorb some heat generated in my base from powered fridges etc, than more than double the cooled down water and send it off. In the beginning i used it for a metal refinery, depending on dupe count, can you use once every 2 cycle or so to get some metal for other stuff, after that, it is used to cool down the aqua tuner and in worst case, goes to the sieve at 115°C and you can start at the beginning of this wall of text :p

Later on, i uses some of the water to condense a steam vent above my base to have some water for my electrolyzer setup.

The extra water from the toilet cooling loop got fed into an electrlyzer, but you could also use it for some bristle berries, since it is cool enough for that ;)

The Nat gas power plant (or how i called it: My oversized wheezewort)

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It is simple: there are 2 pipe systems, one is the cooling loop, with a reservoir into temp sensor to cool the pwater to -5°C +-0.2 or so. The second pipe system collects the pwater generated and transfers all the heat genereated by the system to it, cooling the aquatuner. Later on, i reduced the safety shutoff of the aquatuner to below 90°C and usesd it do condense the second steam vent. after that it goes to the one sieve you have seen on my toilet loop

Heavy Industry section:

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The water comes from a water geyser to the left at 95°C, gets converted into crude oil, which in turn gets cooked into petrol and runs the plastic production.

What i like about that pre space petrol cooker is that it is not dependent on finding a volcano. It's heat sourve is a metal refinery running petrol as coolant (i cooked the first petrol with a metal refinery where the ouput was going into the input again.) All of the stuff you see is steel or even lower (the poly presses for example are copper ore). The plastic comes out at 70°C and the reservoir for the polypress cooling loop started to interact with the tile below and started to actually cool down that area. Since that area is a bit of a pipe spaghetti, it looks a little bit overwhelming, but the principels are simple

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The petrol cooker tower uses the coolant from the refinery as a heat source, so if you need more petrol, run that refinery. The refinery coolant is allowed to go back to the refinery below 405°C (just so it doesn't turn into sour gas if you melt some steel). The freshly produced crude oil from the oil well cools down the petrol to below 250°C and makes it safe for the steel pump to move it inot the storage area. The heated up crude oil is used for the next cooking batch. The petrol cools down the aqua tuner and gets afterwards consumed by the polypresses.

The o2 production center:

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Needed an steel aquatuner, the rest is build from gold amalgam. The heat from the o2 gets collected by the aqua tuner trough that big clean water chamber (target temp 5°C) and than the heat gets moved to the produced hydrogen and burnt off in the generators. Simple and easy.

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Summary: Wheezeworts are not necessary, but they make a lot of stuff easier and simpler to build, i agree on that. But you can generate a lot of cooling using the stuff you have available to you. I never came around for an actual build on my gold volcano in a ice biome (yes the entire base is gold metal tiles) nor for the copper volcano below my o2 production. My take away from that base was mostly: the Sieve is quiet powerful, if you manage to feed it 120°C hot water, it works the same magic as 140 wheezeworts or so. What surprised me the most was the cooling feedback loop of the nat gas generators. Just to give you an idea: I build it in a 45°C biome and even worked on an active steam vent which heated that entire area up to 66°C or something like that. And it managed to get back down again... And i never bothered increasing efficency on many of my designs

So, for everyone interested in the builds, who want to see it in more detail or just wants to laugh at my base building stil, here is the save: Heat Citadel.sav

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When I first read what you said about "natural gas cooling," I couldn't make sense of that. I didn't see any cooling mechanism, and you didn't mention any. After doing a little research, I gather this is about cooling down the natural gas generator itself, which means it produces cold polluted water, and then you use that cold polluted water for cooling. The CO2 comes out cold as well, but that's trivial since its thermal mass is small.

Is that correct? Is cooling via this method considered "common knowledge" like the fixed output temperature of sieves?

Including this, the cooling methods I'm aware of are:

Wheezeworts & AETNs.

Hot water into sieve or carbon skimmer -> 40 C water or polluted water out.

Hot oil into refinery -> oil removed.

Hot petroleum into generator -> petroleum removed.

Hot petroleum into polymer press -> petroleum removed.

Cold natural gas or petroleum generator -> cold polluted water out.

Vent hot liquid (usually water) to space.

Hot steam into turbine -> 152 C steam out. 95 C water in QOL 3 update.

Am I missing anything? I'm not counting things that require player action, like deconstructing a hot object, and I'm not counting things that only move heat, like aquatuners.

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Okay, my nat gas cooling mechanism is using the nat gas pwater to cool down the aqua tuner which in turn cools pwater which runs in a radiator behind my nat gas generators, that natgas gens produce pwater at their own temperature was what i called the cooling feedback loop

Picture of a earlier stage of that nat gas plant

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To your list: You are still missing like every single refinment building

99°C water and dirt into research and woosh, the stuff is gone, the same goes for 1500°C iron to make some steel or just plain old 1600°C hot polluted dirt in a compost, 300°C hot regolith into 20°C clay trough a deodorizer,

Actually, there are a few buildings which can't destroy heat one way or another (think showers, sinks and lavatorys) in that regard is the lavatory even a net heat producer since it creates mass out of "nothing"

 

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qol3 introduces the ice cooler which pumps out 5 weeze worth of dtu cooling.  you do not need weeze with that sort of capacity, all for small amount of power to make ice or no power if you harvest from ice biome.

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2 hours ago, GemeinerJack said:

99°C water and dirt into research and woosh, the stuff is gone, the same goes for 1500°C iron to make some steel or just plain old 1600°C hot polluted dirt in a compost, 300°C hot regolith into 20°C clay trough a deodorizer,

Those aren't very practical, though, are they?

Research isn't enough of an going thing, though I guess the point is that if you have a pitcher pump which Dupes use to get water for supercomputers and lce loaves, you might as well use hot water for it. It won't be a significant reduction in  heat, but it's still more efficient to do so.

Where are you going to get 1500 C iron? An iron volcano, maybe? I never had a source like that. Surface iron's a major source for pretty much everyone, and it's quite hot, but not 1500 C.

I can't think of any sources of 1600 C polluted dirt. Or any hot polluted dirt, really. Sources are fish and sieves, and those deliver polluted dirt at room temperature. Even if you're boiling polluted water (which I haven't done for a variety of reasons) the polluted dirt's going to be at most 100 C. Which is still cooler than the compost pile's operating temperature of 75, granted.

Toilets aren't really heat sources, well at least not if you sieve most of the output immediately. But point taken about them momentarily creating heat along with the water. I generally ran my bathrooms with geyser water, which probably is why they ran around 50 C. Cooling them is difficult since they're a mess of plumbing.

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40 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

 

Toilets aren't really heat sources, well at least not if you sieve most of the output immediately. But point taken about them momentarily creating heat along with the water. I generally ran my bathrooms with geyser water, which probably is why they ran around 50 C. Cooling them is difficult since they're a mess of plumbing.

toilets and sinks are insulated and do not give off heat even if feed 99c water.  the insulated pipes  delivering water do however.  they either exchange with the tiles or with the shower they run over.

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@Gus Smedstad

e37.png

And to remove some plainly false ideas:

Critters produce at their own body temperature, not at room temperature, since most of the time, those 2 are the same, it doesn't really matter.

If i sieve the polluted water direct after it comes out of my toilets i would add heat to the system in the long run, since i get 26°C polluted water and would heat it up to 40°C trough the sieve. And they are heatsource since they "create" more mass with the same temperature. If the heat would stay the same, the pwater would be much colder than the clean water you used to create it. But that is just one way to look at them. I have the feeling with your comment, you never really looked at the inital post at all. There is a toilet based cooling loop you know...

@chemie

Toilets, showers and sinks are not insulated and will exchange temps with liquids inside and the outside. Easy to see if you just click on a toilet with 99°C water in it and watching it getting lower

 

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8 minutes ago, GemeinerJack said:

@Gus Smedstad

If i sieve the polluted water direct after it comes out of my toilets i would add heat to the system in the long run, since i get 26°C polluted water and would heat it up to 40°C trough the sieve.

Next time you tell a joke, you might try making it funny. That’ll make it easier to recognize as humor.

I read how you’d cooled your toilet water to 26 C. At the time my thought was that it was rather pointless, since you’d end up sieving most of the water anyway, and thus you’re wasting effort cooling it. It just didn’t seem worth commenting on at the time.

I guess if you cool the water to 26 C, multiply it with toilets, and then use the polluted water in something that doesn’t destroy it, you’re absorbing some heat if your base average is 30 C or higher. But what you’d use it for escapes me at present. I tend to use my polluted water in a sieve, for the dirt, in which case cooling it is pointless, or for my Pincha Peppers farm, in which case the 26 C temperature is a drawback.

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15 hours ago, GemeinerJack said:

[...] In the beginning i used it for a metal refinery[...]

Later on, i uses some of the water to condense a steam vent above my base to have some water for my electrolyzer setup.

and it cools down the aqua tuner so it can keep cooling my base *shrug*

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2 hours ago, GemeinerJack said:

@Gus Smedstad

 

@chemie

Toilets, showers and sinks are not insulated and will exchange temps with liquids inside and the outside. Easy to see if you just click on a toilet with 99°C water in it and watching it getting lower

 

the building will like like buildings when pipes touch it but the contents do not exchange heat.  they act like a bridge

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