Multiplayer

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

1 hour ago, Heinermann said:

Skyrim is not a 2-dimensional sandbox, and wouldn't work if that gameplay wasn't synchronized. It also depends what type of multiplayer or "multiplayer" you're going for.

 

I'm not a programmer by any means, but I'm sure ONI will just give it's own challenges, being a CPU intensive (vs skyrim being a GPU intensive) game. I also fail to see why the requirement of synchronizing would not apply on ONI when we define multiplayer as playing within the same sandbox.

Again, I'm totally fine with any multiplayer abilities. I don't think it will be added value to the game, but neither would it be detrimental. I honestly just don't see it happen. The time spend for setting up such multiplayer I'd rather see go to new singleplayer content.

[Sasza22]

The main problem i see with multiplayer in ONI is that it wasn`t made with multiplayer in mind. If we compare it to lets say Astroneer we can see that it has no pause function or speed settings. Everything in that game is simulated at once and a new player joining can fully sync with the host.

Now in ONI we would have to limit the pause and speed settings to one player if they are both to play on the same map. While when we are talking about trading that would have to be tied to the amount of cycles passed instead of real time (athrough that might lead to playing multiple bases at once in single and sending resources to one).

While all of that is possible it would all seem pretty clunky to play imo.

[cpy]

Yeah good luck getting all the physics simulation in lockstep or whatever it's called to be able to sync in MP. Yeah right.

Single player = you can go ape**** crazy with physics. and not worry about syncing anything.

MP idea = take all the physics and science we love, add multiplayer, complain the game isn't what it was anymore, quit playing.

[KittenIsAGeek]

Games that are multiplayer on multiple devices these days generally have a server that hosts the game clients.  Even as far back as the original Unreal Tournament worked this way.  Multiplayer on a single console, on the other hand, operate a bit differently.  Generally there are three forms: Split screen, shared screen, or turn-based.

So, lets look at these a little more closely:

Multiplayer with multiple devices: Wouldn't work for ONI in its current form.  Because each game is simulating the world on their device rather than communicating with a central server, this method opens a world of problems.  Suppose I'm playing on game speed 3 and my buddy is playing at normal.  I'll have my base built and will be sending dupes to space 3 times sooner.  If combat is implemented, I'll be able to field 3 times the resources and will be able to attack much more frequently. Sharing resources?  Already people are complaining about the resources that can come out of the printer pod.  Want to really break the game? Add this form of multiplayer.  But wait, what if my buddy chose the option at game creation so that his dupes don't eat food?  Or what if he's using sandbox mode and has a fully functional base before he even unpauses the game?  What happens when Newb X asks for resources and you send off a rocket and.. he quits the game? Or what if your opponent has modded his game so that his weapons are always maximum power?  The game is totally broken because there is no central server maintaining the game world to keep everything fair.  The only option that makes sense is a re-designed game with server functionality where all worlds are run on the server.  Maps are generated using the the server's specifics, meaning mods would happen only at the server level.  Pausing isn't allowed -- or pauses everyone at once.  With the current world-size already taxing most computers, the worlds for each player would have to be proportionally smaller.  And we're not even going to discuss the logistics of transferring all information between client and server to update in current time.  This game would _destroy_ any server trying to run it in its current form.  You would have to redesign ONI into something like Minecraft in order to get the computational load even close to reasonable for this type of multiplayer.

Split screen mode:  Would possibly work, but would be frustrating.  "Where did all the dupes go?" "Oh, I've got them building this priority 9 ladder up to space.  Your farming was making it take too long."  Alternatively, two printing pods in separate parts of the asteroid would give each player control of a different set of dupes.  This worked for Lemmings on the Amiga, but I'm not sure it would work here.  Without a fundamental design change to the game, what would happen when you reached each other in the asteroid? How would tasks be processed? Would they be kept individual? In that case, how would the game determine which resources were yours?  If its a free-for-all, then your buddy could waltz in and take all your food.  Or dig into that vacuum you had isolating your volcano.  

Shared screen mode:  Highly frustrating.  You might as well just use one set of controls and take turns with your buddy.  You're not controlling individuals, you're creating jobs for your simulated dupes to handle.  You can't see enough of the base at a time to make it viable for two players with separate controls on a single screen.  For example, what if player A is working on a petroleum boiler down near the magma and player B wants to work on a rocket at the edge of space?

Turn-based mode:  As a time-based simulation, this really isn't an option other than you and your buddy sitting down together and periodically handing control off to the other.  The only option I can think of that wouldn't require a complete overhaul of the entire game would be a timer that periodically pops up on the screen and says, "OK, its Player B's turn at the controls."

So, no, I don't see ONI becoming multiplayer unless there's a fundamental change in the design of the game.  And, personally, I wouldn't ever play a multiplayer form of ONI.

[jfc]

How can someone even want multiplayer for this game? It doesn't even fit it...

[Glassyfo]

Ppl should just let threads like these die instead of chiming in on how it's not feasible.

[Heinermann]

I think if someone wants multiplayer enough they should form a more concrete idea, find others who are interested, and just develop it. Ignore all these naysayers who have limited vision and lack the software development experience to provide a comprehensive conclusion to what is possible/feasible or not.

[Yunru]

8 hours ago, Heinermann said:

I think if someone wants multiplayer enough they should form a more concrete idea, find others who are interested, and just develop it. Ignore all these naysayers who have limited vision and lack the software development experience to provide a comprehensive conclusion to what is possible/feasible or not.

Which is what the Suggestion subforum is for.

*Headdesk*

Forget lacking software development experiencd, don't listen to peole with no forum navigation experience.

[Lepeightl]

Multiplayer games are very expensive. I can't find the source anymore, but I once read somewhere that implementing multiplayer into a finished game takes up ~90% of the budget afterwards. (If anybody knows the source or has contradictory information, please, share them!)

I'd rather see that money being invested into making an even more awesome and engaging singleplayer game. I'd be really impressed if a multiplayer mode was successfully implemented into this game, but at this time, I dare to doubt that this will ever happen.

[Heinermann]

14 hours ago, Yunru said:

Which is what the Suggestion subforum is for.

*Headdesk*

Forget lacking software development experiencd, don't listen to peole with no forum navigation experience.

The suggestion subforum isn't much of a discussion forum. It's for suggestions and feedback for the developers. Everyone knows and agrees the developers are not ever implementing multiplayer, that doesn't mean people can't discuss multiplayer ideas that they can implement themselves as a community.

So sick of this community's toxic negativity. Occasionally someone has their own multiplayer idea and many including yourself feel the need to flex your ego and berate them for whatever reason. Come on. So what if OP didn't post in the exact forum you wanted them to. Is there anything else you'd like to criticize that you and others haven't already repeatedly posted?

[Yunru]

Just now, Heinermann said:

The suggestion subforum isn't much of a discussion forum. It's for suggestions and feedback for the developers. Everyone knows and agrees the developers are not ever implementing multiplayer, that doesn't mean people can't discuss multiplayer ideas that they can implement themselves as a community.

So sick of this community's toxic negativity. Occasionally someone has their own multiplayer idea and many including yourself feel the need to flex your ego and berate them for whatever reason. Come on. So what if OP didn't post in the exact forum you wanted them to. Is there anything else you'd like to criticize that you and others haven't already repeatedly posted?

You mean like you're attempting right now?

How's the insurance on your glass house there?

[Heinermann]

Just now, Yunru said:

You mean like you're attempting right now?

How's the insurance on your glass house there?

I'm defending OP and the idea that multiplayer could be feasible if done right. What exactly am I attempting but calling you out for not adding anything to the discussion? A simple "I have nothing else to say" would've sufficed.

[Neotuck]

If you make a generalized insult then expect some backlash

get off your high horse

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Up until now I only have seen modders doing new content. There was no attempt or as far as I know any discussion between modders to do any sort of multiplayer features.

Never say never to modders and their creative minds. Again, modders did make it happen for Skyrim, but only after 8 years (and no, I don't want to insinuate the games are alike. Not at all infact). But, we'll be literally swimming in content by that time, probably complete overhauls where we start on the planet instead of the broken asteroid, with a cataclysmic event leading up to the vanilla game. Modders are far more interested in content, content, content. Which is a good thing!

[Yunru]

8 hours ago, Heinermann said:

What exactly am I attempting but calling you out for not adding anything to the discussion?

Not adding anything to the discussion for one.

[Kazumiya]

The problem is about controls... If at least one dupe = one player, that could be interesting... But then again, it would be boring, unless you enjoy watching your dupe working non stop and do nothing more... Because in this game nothing is about direct control of dupes, it's just orders... And I don't know any game that have multiplayer with this kind of feature... Even  THE SIMS don't have it , and AFAIK, console multiplayer with the SIMS is very limited...