Temperature filters

[ShadowBound]

I think there should be a filter that seperates liquids and gases that are below or above certain temperature.

[Saturnus]

14 hours ago, ShadowBound said:

I think there should be a filter that seperates liquids and gases that are below or above certain temperature.

Can't you just make one?

[vovik]

On 25.12.2017 at 1:25 PM, Saturnus said:

Can't you just make one?

Propose design that separates gases based on temperature. I can`t imagine one.

[Kroning]

Maybe some little room where you can pump gas, measure it's temperature and pump it further?

[Kabrute]

put an automation valve on the line so when its one temp in the room valve open to send packets down that way, when its another temp valve closed, bypasses valve to secondary line

[Saturnus]

10 hours ago, vovik said:

Propose design that separates gases based on temperature. I can`t imagine one.

 

26 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

put an automation valve on the line so when its one temp in the room valve open to send packets down that way, when its another temp valve closed, bypasses valve to secondary line

Yeah. Pretty much what @Kroning and @Kabrute writes.

A small room with a vent and two pumps activated by presence of certain amount of gas pressure. A temperature sensor shuts on or off a shut off valve to select which output line is used.

[Kabrute]

1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

 

Yeah. Pretty much what @Kroning and @Kabrute writes.

A small room with a vent and two pumps activated by presence of certain amount of gas pressure. A temperature sensor shuts on or off a shut off valve to select which output line is used.

don't even need the bridge, can break straight off the valve white

[Zarquan]

@Kabrute @Saturnus That device isn't really a filter.  The input to a filter should come solely from the contents of the current packet in the pipe.  My water pipe gets water at 90C from a geyser and 40C from a water sieve (after a carbon skimmer) and the water packets are are all mixed up.  How can I sort packets so that the colder water gets diverted to liquid cool something and the hot water goes straight to the electrolyzers?  Or, better yet, how can I make sure that my hydrogen won't condense if it goes through the next thermoregulator by taking the packets of hydrogen that are too cold and filtering them out?  To do this with your method, I would have to dump it all in one chamber, which would significantly increase the power requirements by adding pumps to the equation, as well as mix the samples which were supposed to be separated.  Even if the two pumps operated perfectly at 500g/s each, which they wouldn't, they would still be operating with a delay, and the sample will go down the pipe determined by one other packet down the line.  I would almost argue that your device is the opposite of a temperature filter and is, at some level, is closer a temperature blender. 

A dedicated filter object based on temperature would add a feature to the game which is currently either very difficult or impossible to create.

The best you could do is a setup where each chamber gets one packet at a time and doesn't get a new one until the old packet is sent on its way.  This would be extremely expensive to operate. But then if you are filtering wildly differing temperatures, say room temperature hydrogen and liquid oxygen temperature hydrogen, then the change in the temperature of the pump would contaminate the results.

I would use the proposed device in my liquid oxygen machine.  I would be able to take hydrogen from anywhere in my base, what ever temperature, and cool it to a constant temperature (or a reasonable range of temperatures) before supplying it to the liquid oxygen room.

[AlexRou]

26 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

My water pipe gets water at 90C from a geyser and 40C from a water sieve (after a carbon skimmer) and the water packets are are all mixed up.  How can I sort packets so that the colder water gets diverted to liquid cool something and the hot water goes straight to the electrolyzers?

Not commenting on the idea but if you have 2 separate water sources with 2 different temperatures and want them to go to 2 different locations why are you mixing them into the same pipe network? It makes more sense to send the geyser water directly to the electrolyzer and sieve water directly to something else without mixing the 2 sources together.

[Zarquan]

They got mixed a long time ago.  They needed to be mixed earlier (or it didn't matter whether they were mixed) and now the piping system is complicated enough that it would be hellish to separate them.  I understand that that argument isn't very strong, but it still is a good test case for the concept.  I actually had this problem a little in my base, but I didn't end up caring and just sent it all to the electolyzers. 

That's actually why I brought up the hydrogen example.  It is a much stronger argument, especially since gas pumps are less efficient in low density gas than liquid pumps in areas of small quantities of liquid.  Plus, it is actually one of the annoyances I experience actually building a liquid oxygen room from scratch.  Some of the packets of hydrogen started colder, so they condense before the others.  Also, there is no easy way to separate the cold hydrogen from the warmer hydrogen without mixing them.  So instead of taking the optimal path that should be possible through cooling it in the pipe until it is cold enough, I have to cool it all as one mass, in one chamber, which usually means I end up cooling far more hydrogen than I need to.

[BlueLance]

If it were me I would create a temporary reservoir for the water, this will make it all the same temperature eventually, and deconstruct your old pipe system and use the reservoir water to sustain your base whilst your dupes build the new piping. Heck I wouldn't really use a reservoir when you have enough dupes it takes like 1 or 2 cycles. Can survive without water for that length of time most times unless your really pushing your limits

[Kroning]

Nevertheless, I must say it's a good idea. This would allow to get rid of some complicated constractions. And I don't think it's a hard task for developers.

[BlueLance]

1 hour ago, Kroning said:

Nevertheless, I must say it's a good idea. This would allow to get rid of some complicated constractions. And I don't think it's a hard task for developers.

It is a good idea, personally I would never use it but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be made, the more systems that there is the more interesting the designs can be!

[Saturnus]

What is wrong with complicated contraptions? To me it's one of the most important and fun aspects of the game to solve complicated problems using the simple tools available.

[Kroning]

2 hours ago, Saturnus said:

What is wrong with complicated contraptions? To me it's one of the most important and fun aspects of the game to solve complicated problems using the simple tools available.

Nothing. But that's why we have Assembler, C++ and (forgive me Jesus) Basic.

[Zarquan]

My issue is that this isn't a complicated problem, it is a simple one.  If this were a complicated problem, I would oppose the device.  But this is a problem that is (or should be) simple.  Two packets.  One hot, one cold.  If it is above/below a threshold, send it somewhere.  By the logic that adding machines that eliminate the need for contraptions is bad we would lose a lot of the machines in the game that are necessary for practically doing anything:

We shouldn't have liquid or gas filters because we can build a self-sorting filter.  We shouldn't have a shut off valve because we could just vent it and turn off the pump to block the pipe.  We shouldn't have heavy watt wire because we could just have a more complicated power system.  We shouldn't have rock granulators or metal refineries because we can build a machine to melt metals manually.  We shouldn't have a water sieve, we can boil polluted water with a complicated system.  We shouldn't have an oil refinery, we can just burn the oil to petroleum.  We shouldn't have insulated tiles, we can just use two layers of normal tiles with a vacuum between them.  We don't need air-tight doors, we have CO2 pit airlocks and waterlocks.  We don't need water bottlers, we could just pour water on the ground and mop it.  We shouldn't have air deodorizers, we can just liquefy the polluted O2.  We shouldn't have a buffer gate because you can just use a pump and a length of pipe.  We don't need a temperature filter, we have this contraption.  The list goes on.  I mean, really, wfe shouldn't have logic gates, you can do the same thing with pumps and electric wires with the old sensors (except opening doors). 

I should note that some of these things that we have devices for we still do.  Though the devices are easier, the other schemes can be more efficient in some way or another.

EDIT:  I just thought of it, liquid bridges are redundant as well.  You could simply use a liquid vent (which another pipe could go under) which pours in to a two level chamber.  Each level has a pump on it and they are separated by a step and there is a liquid valve measuring the pressure  If the bottom pump can run, it sends it down.  If not, it is blocked and can not run.  No need for liquid bridges, they remove a contraption we could build.