Gases and Behavior

[VokzzLegacy]

so i have done two quite unsuccessful runs of ONI, played around a bit and tested a few things, i was trying to determine the behavior of the gases, it seems oxygen rises, carbon dioxide sinks and hydrogen seems to have no pattern, did anyone else find something similar?

only reason i ask is i was trying to find the most efficient places to make the oxygen/hydrogen cycles, and the best places for the gas pumps to be to achieve it, 

[Tyreth]

I kind of got the feeling that oxygen also sinks, but still stays above Co2, because I put my oxygen generation on the floor above my "Co2 pocket", and that is the floor that's most concentrated with oxygen. Had to build a gas pump and a vent at the top to help spread it out

[Spider2430]

3 hours ago, VokzzLegacy said:

so i have done two quite unsuccessful runs of ONI, played around a bit and tested a few things, i was trying to determine the behavior of the gases, it seems oxygen rises, carbon dioxide sinks and hydrogen seems to have no pattern, did anyone else find something similar?

only reason i ask is i was trying to find the most efficient places to make the oxygen/hydrogen cycles, and the best places for the gas pumps to be to achieve it, 

yeah, carbon dioxide was a nightmare for me, so I set up a gas pump researched airlocks, and trapped all the carbon dioxide in one area while my oxygen replenishes, however now im dealing with a new threatening gas, this one rises with oxygen, contaminated oxygen

[TentacleStew]

realistically CO2(carbon dioxide), is heavier than O2 and when mixed with O2, CO2 filters down and O2 filters up. By the same logic, H2(hydrogen gas) should really be rising, and displacing O2 from the top down

[Octyabr]

19 minutes ago, TentacleStew said:

realistically CO2(carbon dioxide), is heavier than O2 and when mixed with O2, CO2 filters down and O2 filters up. By the same logic, H2(hydrogen gas) should really be rising, and displacing O2 from the top down

I can confirm that since I've found a large pocket of hydrogen that I unsuccessfully tried to process since the gas pump continuously prompts pump out in gas.

[DNsingbanana]

Hydrogen is quite slow but at the end rises aboive everyything else. 

Contaminated oxygen rises above 02 (isn't it weird?) which is quite unconvenient considering your air filters can only be places on the ground >< 

so far my only complaint is maybe that we don't have a small-size pump to pump light amount of gases, only the big one that is unconvenient in a lot of cases. 

[Penassa]

having loads of issues with Gas movement. CO2 just seem to gather and the corners and dead ends of my base. 

Breathable O2 stays below contaminated O2, massive issue there because top areas of my base are fully contaminated. 

my algue deodorisers stopped working because "maximum gas pressure" 

my gas ducts seem to bottleneck at the first outlet. 1st outlet not working properly because overpressure following ones idle because no gas delivered. 

dupes are overly stressed because i can't keep their bedrooms with enough breathable O2.

absulute clustefuck. maybe i'm doing stuff wrong. 

 

 

[DNsingbanana]

36 minutes ago, Penassa said:

having loads of issues with Gas movement. CO2 just seem to gather and the corners and dead ends of my base. 

Breathable O2 stays below contaminated O2, massive issue there because top areas of my base are fully contaminated. 

my algue deodorisers stopped working because "maximum gas pressure" 

my gas ducts seem to bottleneck at the first outlet. 1st outlet not working properly because overpressure following ones idle because no gas delivered. 

dupes are overly stressed because i can't keep their bedrooms with enough breathable O2.

absulute clustefuck. maybe i'm doing stuff wrong. 

 

 

For the desoxydizers stopping working, you could just make a room with all of them, get a gas pump in that room and then distribute all of it with pipes and vents

[VokzzLegacy]

i feel like we need a sandbox mode to do some testing with this stuff, any idea if there are plans to implement it? or commands for spawns and stuff? would like to really figure out how everything can interact

[Vitriks]

I also have problem with hydrogen. Main problem, that he runs out very quickly so I constantly have to switch on/off gas pump. And you also can't collect descent amount of it. Just for the sake of gameplay Hydrogen should flow faster.

[terrachronos]

On 16-2-2017 at 8:42 AM, DNsingbanana said:

Hydrogen is quite slow but at the end rises aboive everyything else. 

Contaminated oxygen rises above 02 (isn't it weird?) which is quite unconvenient considering your air filters can only be places on the ground >< 

so far my only complaint is maybe that we don't have a small-size pump to pump light amount of gases, only the big one that is unconvenient in a lot of cases. 

 

Well personally I've seen contaminated oxygen both above and below regular oxygen, mostly filtering down(between oxygen and CO2) when in large quantities.

 

The most annoying gas though is chlorine for me, since it's a heavy gas and in both of the seeds I made I had large quantities of it above my colony. The stuff tends to get stuck literally everywhere on the way down into my do not want to breathe that stuff pocket.

[ShaTiK]

So far the logic is the following:

Hydrogen is the lightest, so it always goes on top

Then goes contaminated oxygen - for, I suppose, balance reasons it goes above regular oxygen.

Then goes our usual O

Then goes chlorine gas - it's a bit heavier then O, but still lighter then carbon dioxide 

And finally our nightmare - CO2 - always goes to the bottom.

 

Given time they always end up in this order

[Spider2430]

On 2/16/2017 at 3:43 PM, VokzzLegacy said:

i feel like we need a sandbox mode to do some testing with this stuff, any idea if there are plans to implement it? or commands for spawns and stuff? would like to really figure out how everything can interact

That's what the debug is for, I've tried it to test out a factory style of water supply

[Mara1681]

1 hour ago, Spider2430 said:

That's what the debug is for, I've tried it to test out a factory style of water supply

And did you found out how to use the debug? Spawn liquid, gas or any kind of tile? I really would like to test everything and find the best way to manage my colony. Using debug as cheats? Why? After that, the game would be just boring. So... nope...

It's really sad, that developers are quiet about this. They know how it works, but don't say anything.

Should we test the game beyond our possibilities and report any bugs? Give us the chance... ^.^

[rudzstyle]

For sure the gases is like this

Hydrogen

O2 / contaminated O2

Chlorine

CO2

 

But i still can't figure it out how to use gas pump for 100%, it's barely working..

 

Btw i got this game from torrent, it's so expensive!! Not really i just too poor to buy the game.. but it's a great game.. waiting for sale like DST..

 

Already at 50 cycle..

 

For water issue

Conver slime to algae it will produce contaminated water too, and from there you just need to sterilize it to water. 

So just make a cycle then your base will flourish..

 

[FifthSurprise]

7 minutes ago, rudzstyle said:

For sure the gases is like this

Btw i got this game from torrent, it's so expensive!! Not really i just too poor to buy the game.. but it's a great game.. waiting for sale like DST..

Torrenting a game developer's game and then going on to their forums to talk about it... well that's certainly...something.

 

On 2/16/2017 at 6:07 AM, Penassa said:

having loads of issues with Gas movement. CO2 just seem to gather and the corners and dead ends of my base. 

Breathable O2 stays below contaminated O2, massive issue there because top areas of my base are fully contaminated. 

my algue deodorisers stopped working because "maximum gas pressure" 

my gas ducts seem to bottleneck at the first outlet. 1st outlet not working properly because overpressure following ones idle because no gas delivered. 

dupes are overly stressed because i can't keep their bedrooms with enough breathable O2.

absulute clustefuck. maybe i'm doing stuff wrong. 

 

I suspect the overpressure doesn't just refer to the input but also the output of the room.  In other words, the vent stops working if the volume of gas in the area is too high.  At that point, you need another pump to remove things.  Although frankly, you can just dig some more space which magically causes the volume to increase (since the dug out item is not factored into mass calculations).  Gas tiles in strategic areas will let things move up and down.

Air scrubbers connected to water purifiers generally kept my CO2 problem in check. 

[TheKingDedede]

@ImDaMisterL, I saw the words "torrent" talked about. Isn't that a big no-no?

[ImDaMisterL]

1 hour ago, rudzstyle said:

Btw i got this game from torrent, it's so expensive!! Not really i just too poor to buy the game.. but it's a great game.. waiting for sale like DST..

Oh man, so uncool!

Believe me, save up money and buy it on Steam, it's worth it. You get updates and hotfixes as soon as they're released and will have full access to mods if mod support is ever added.

Plus, you'll be helping the developers out, giving them their well-deserved profit.

Pirating is a no-no man, but welcome to the forums!

[TestDriver]

I got the first version on a Torr... site, liked the game and played it for two days before buying it for about 20 Euro. The reason for the illegal download was that I could not find a demo anywhere. 

20 Euro is in Sweden the cost of three or four packs of cigarrettes or a couple of beers in a bar. This game will keep me entertained for a heck lot longer than what the other items would. Just buy it already. You have the money.

[Octyabr]

Hey, that's how I first ever got Don't Starve!

Not that I couldn't afford or was unwilling to pay but rather it was impossible to do so, no other payment method for me other than credit cards, which I am unable to get. (In my country if you are an irresponsible and reckless buyer you can get one gifted, out of the blue; but if you want one is a complete different story since you must met several requirements)
Thankfully, that changed thanks to Steam.

By the way, the correct term is unauthorised copying, which is quite different than piracy. Think of unauthorised copying as a way of promote the game (read this)

The best DRM is having no DRM at all, it's better to lose hundreds of dollars to unauthorised copies that pay thousands of dollars to a DRM company that can also effectively cut your sales because legitimate customers don't like to struggle with DRM while pirated gamers do not.

[MarkusReese]

"Unauthorized copying" Doesnt change the act of usage without payment.

Back to on topic.  One of the big ones I learned early on is that smooth flow is important.  Trying to create cycles or crossflow helps a lot.  You can make use of where you put oxygen generators to push the less desired gases to where you want them.  Places with no flow end up as displaced gas deadzones.  Chlorine can be one of the more difficult ones to deal with.

A sloped base flows gas extremely well.  Great for getting oxygen everywhere and collecting hydrogen.  It doesnt solve the hydrogen pump causing vacuums, but flows enough that it can more than readily be maintained.  I cycle the hydrogen power back into its own system to somewhat help improve its efficiency.

I dont have access to my screenshots, but hopefully I can explain it well.  Imagine a parallelogram rotated slightly and split into floors.  A seven to one run to rise.  Bottom of slopes I put the CO2.  Top of slope is where I put oxygen generators.  Bottom corner for CO2.  Above this I make a service roof for heat and gas collection.  It is wedge shaped so the top slopes opposite direction of the floor.  Gas collector in top for hydrogen.

The CO2 and Hydrogen processors create a draw pulling the oxygen and other gases in a smooth flow throughout the base.  This eliminates deadzones in key areas and gets bad gases quickly to processing.

Edit:  Either end I put my ladders with some gas tile to allow it ro raise and sink.  At the bad gas end, I slope up short rooms for the nasty gas stuff.