Saturnus Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 46 minutes ago, crypticorb said: @Neotuck I've been having difficulty getting your automation to function correctly. I connected it all up exactly as you show in the picture, and there are windows in the automation that allow two doors to be closed simultaneously, allowing for the one of the reservoirs to be in the filling stage as well as offloading at the same time. I rebuilt it from scratch three times to check my wiring, same result. I feel like it has something to do with the lack of a third XOR gate, but rather than debug your setup I'm working on making my own iteration of the design. Can you check over your automation and see if I'm correct, or just stupid? Since I designed the automation maybe I can help. Can you supply a screenshot? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypticorb Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Saturnus said: Since I designed the automation maybe I can help. Can you supply a screenshot? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, crypticorb said: can you do a plumbing overlay screenshot as well so we know what order the pipes are in? Fists problem I see @crypticorb is you don't have the right door connected with automation Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypticorb Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Neotuck said: can you do a plumbing overlay screenshot as well so we know what order the pipes are in? Grey water comes in bottom left, with loopback insertion, goes out top left. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 @crypticorb I don't know if this would cause a problem but have the bridge that loops germ packets back in connect with the "in" side of the bridge so packets don't get confused with 2 "outs" Also missing some automation wires here Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypticorb Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Neotuck said: Also missing some automation wires here I spent way longer than I should have staring at that last night. It works great now. The loopback insertion works fairly well hooked up both ways, but feeding it to the output is better if the source feeds multiple systems and you don't want germy water flowing back that way. Feeding to the output keeps the germy water from leaving the system. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, crypticorb said: The loopback insertion works fairly well hooked up both ways, but feeding it to the output is better if the source feeds multiple systems and you don't want germy water flowing back that way. Feeding to the output keeps the germy water from leaving the system. If you have a constant stream of 10kg/s packets coming in the packets will take turns when the loop happens (allegedly, this system works so well I haven't seen any need to loop yet ) From what I can see the germy water is sterilized in half the time they sit in the tanks Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypticorb Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Just now, Neotuck said: If you have a constant stream of 10kg/s packets coming in the packets will take turns when the loop happens (allegedly, this system works so well I haven't seen any need to loop yet ) Yup, feedback loop is only a safety measure, mostly needed for the exact purpose I used it for, idiotic mistakes like missing wires. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 I'm thinking if building a gas version of this would be worth it so my dupes can breath clean, fresh, morb farts! granted it would take 36 morbs to have the same output as an electrolyzer but it would save on power, water, and cooling Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypticorb Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Neotuck said: I'm thinking if building a gas version of this would be worth it so my dupes can breath clean, fresh, morb farts! granted it would take 36 morbs to have the same output as an electrolyzer but it would save on power, water, and cooling Try an infectious polluted vent. It'll output 60oC polluted oxygen at an average of 100g/s, which is 60kg/cycle, the same as 10 morbs. Might be worth looking into, as vents don't hurt your CPU like morbs do. Edit: or use it for LOX! LOX systems don't give two hoots about how polluted or infected oxygen is. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 Just now, crypticorb said: Try an infectious polluted vent. It'll output 60oC polluted oxygen at an average of 100g/s, which is 60kg/cycle, the same as 10 morbs. Might be worth looking into, as vents don't hurt your CPU like morbs do. That might be a good idea, I have a vent above my main base I haven't tapped into yet rather than going full industrial maybe doing the "simple septic system" works better Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpongledd Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Neotuck, first: i really like your builds, have stolen here and there some snippets. But this build is, i would say, overengineered. Could you elaborate whats the benefit compared to this one: Ah **** forget to Ctrl + S....anyway its fairly simple a liquid sensor for pWater with a filter gate set on 10sec. It basically fills the three liquid containers with pWater and everything is submersed in chlorine. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypticorb Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, hpongledd said: Neotuck, first: i really like your builds, have stolen here and there some snippets. But this build is, i would say, overengineered. Could you elaborate whats the benefit compared to this one: Ah **** forget to Ctrl + S....anyway its fairly simple a liquid sensor for pWater with a filter gate set on 10sec. It basically fills the three liquid containers with pWater and everything is submersed in chlorine. Can you post a screenshot of your plumbing? I can't tell what your setup is doing with the liquid, and the automation isn't very helpful for reverse engineering that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpongledd Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, crypticorb said: Can you post a screenshot of your plumbing? I can't tell what your setup is doing with the liquid, and the automation isn't very helpful for reverse engineering that. pWater goes in. pWater goes out. Thats it. The automation makes sure that all three tanks are filled. The last tank has around 0 - ~100germs. I think by adding another tank, you can eliminate those germs. But i had it already builded this way. Ignore the NOT gate above, it has another function and isnt related to the decontamination Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, hpongledd said: pWater goes in. pWater goes out. Thats it. The automation makes sure that all three tanks are filled. The last tank has around 0 - ~100germs. I think by adding another tank, you can eliminate those germs. But i had it already builded this way can you maintain 10kg/s clean water flow without stopping? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpongledd Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Just now, Neotuck said: can you maintain 10kg/s clean water flow without stopping? as soon as the tanks are filled and there is enough pWater, ofcourse. I mean the output is coming from a liquid reservoir which by default outputs 10kg/s. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 minute ago, hpongledd said: as soon as the tanks are filled and there is enough pWater, ofcourse. I mean the output is coming from a liquid reservoir which by default outputs 10kg/s. so you idea is to let the tanks fill up then keep them full? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypticorb Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 minute ago, hpongledd said: as soon as the tanks are filled and there is enough pWater, ofcourse. I mean the output is coming from a liquid reservoir which by default outputs 10kg/s. The main difference I can see is that @Neotuck's system is able to maintain 100% uptime 10kg/s flow by the use of rotating buffers (the reservoirs). Your setup, while far simpler, requires the water flow to stop and hold, with a period of zero flow in or out, while the germs are purged. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpongledd Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Just now, Neotuck said: so you idea is to let the tanks fill up then keep them full? yes, 3(/4) tanks is enough time for decontamination. The only "downside" is that you 15t of pWater which can not be used. But i look at it as a "buffer" Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 Just now, hpongledd said: yes, 3(/4) tanks is enough time for decontamination. The only "downside" is that you 15t of pWater which can not be used. But i look at it as a "buffer" I'm going to try this in debug Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpongledd Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, crypticorb said: The main difference I can see is that @Neotuck's system is able to maintain 100% uptime 10kg/s flow by the use of rotating buffers (the reservoirs). Your setup, while far simpler, requires the water flow to stop and hold, with a period of zero flow in or out, while the germs are purged. yes and no, after priming it, by filling the reservoirs and a continious feed of pWater. The 10kg/s are guaranteeded. But for sure his build is far more reliable: - If there is an empty "space" in the pipe it will reset the filter gate and stop for 10sec. - Sometimes i observed how the tanks started to empty, im still a little puzzled on the reason. But i think its a little issue that can be solved with automation. (Even this isnt an issue => less pWater = less pWater to decontaminate, only if pWater flows directly through it, it will have a lot of germs) - If there is some other liquid in the pipe, it has a chance of getting clogged. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypticorb Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, hpongledd said: Sometimes i observed how the tanks started to empty, im still a little puzzled on the reason. But i think its a little issue that can be solved with automation. To clarify confusion on this point: reservoirs with liquid flowing in will always output the contents on the output, so long as it isn't blocked. This means that with a flow in and nothing preventing outflow, the reservoir will function like a bridge, holding nothing. Reservoirs cannot be disabled with automation, which is why @Neotuck added the door underneath the reservoir, which "disables" it when it senses no floor. The reservoir will still accept input while "disabled", but cannot output. Lastly, reservoirs will output the average of the contents. This is important, because they will average everything that flows into them with the contents, including germs, temperature, and material type. If you have a reservoir that contains 50kg of petroleum at 100oC, and pump in 50kg of germy, 0oC polluted water, the reservoir will average every aspect of these new contents. Allowing the contents to flow out will yield a 50/50 mix of 10kg packets of germy petroleum at 50oC and 10kg packets of germy polluted water at 50oC. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpongledd Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, crypticorb said: To clarify confusion on this point: reservoirs with liquid flowing in will always output the contents on the output, so long as it isn't blocked. This means that with a flow in and nothing preventing outflow, the reservoir will function like a bridge, holding nothing. The Liquid shut off should prevent the outflow. Quote Lastly, reservoirs will output the average of the contents. This is important, because they will average everything that flows into them with the contents, including germs, temperature, and material type. If you have a reservoir that contains 50kg of petroleum at 100oC, and pump in 50kg of germy, 0oC polluted water, the reservoir will average every aspect of these new contents. Allowing the contents to flow out will yield a 50/50 mix of 10kg packets of germy petroleum at 50oC and 10kg packets of germy polluted water at 50oC. Hmm... good point. Maybe because of that it works. I have multiple sources (Toilets, pWater Vent and cool slush geysir). That could be the reason that it comes out with almost 0 germs. Lets see what Neotucks test brings for results. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 Very nice @hpongledd did a quick test in debug with your idea, took a few minutes to flush the germs out of the pipes once the system was primed but once it was It maintained 10kg/s Well done Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpongledd Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Cool! Thanks for the test! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98116-septic-system-v3-10kgs-26c-water-and-400gs-dirt/page/2/#findComment-1113568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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