for what action we gain experience ?

[Nivana]

i have one small question... for what action we gain experience ? for fight ? by exploring? for days? for what ?

[Toaster Fu]

Welcome! You gain XP based on how long you survived.

[Nivana]

only for that ?

what we do in not matter ?

[Toaster Fu]

Ya I'm pretty sure just for that. but the game isn't really focused on leveling, it's just a way to unlock characters.

[Kevin]

Ya I'm pretty sure just for that. but the game isn't really focused on leveling, it's just a way to unlock characters.

This is actually an interesting design problem. The penalty for dying in Don't Starve is pretty high, and we are a bit worried about people rage-quitting when that happens. So, we decided to give them something when they die. For lack of a better idea, we chose XP, and then tied that into the character unlock progression. Simple, right?

Well, actually, no. The system is flawed for a couple of reasons:

1) It rewards failure. This is always feels a bit weird in a video game. Another example of a similar mechanic is in the game Hack Slash Loot, and it felt just as weird there.

2) It's grindy! You have to play *a lot* to get wolfgang right now. I'm not super keen on encouraging long playtimes for long playtimes' sake. Also, after a couple of levels I find that the XP bar moves so slowly that it actually discourages me from trying again.

3) It's inherently extrinsic. We are telling you "survival is the goal, do more of it!" I would guess that this might cause people to turtle when they otherwise wouldn't. I think that you should do what you want to do in the game because you think it is fun. Attaching arbitrary rewards to certain actions distorts the spirit of free play.

Don't Starve is not an action game, and it's not a stats building game. It's a learning and making decisions game. When you die, it should be because you didn't make the right decisions. So all 'levelling up' should really be in the player's head, and not tied to an arbitrarily designed progress track.

Anyway, I'm not sure what we're going to do with this, but I just wanted to mention that I'm not exactly in love with the way we do XP (or research points for that matter )

Edited October 29, 2012 by Kevin

[cptCalavera]

I would say do a system without numbers. Numbers makes you (me) focus on them as if they are the goal of the game. And from the article you posted I figured that is not what you want

[bllu]

This is actually an interesting design problem. The penalty for dying in Don't Starve is pretty high, and we are a bit worried about people rage-quitting when that happens. So, we decided to give them something when they die. For lack of a better idea, we chose XP, and then tied that into the character unlock progression. Simple, right?

Well, actually, no. The system is flawed for a couple of reasons:

1) It rewards failure. This is always feels a bit weird in a video game. Another example of a similar mechanic is in the game Hack Slash Loot, and it felt just as weird there.

2) It's grindy! You have to play *a lot* to get wolfgang right now. I'm not super keen on encouraging long playtimes for long playtimes' sake. Also, after a couple of levels I find that the XP bar moves so slowly that it actually discourages me from trying again.

3) It's inherently extrinsic. We are telling you "survival is the goal, do more of it!" I would guess that this might cause people to turtle when they otherwise wouldn't. I think that you should do what you want to do in the game because you think it is fun. Attaching arbitrary rewards to certain actions distorts the spirit of free play.

Don't Starve is not an action game, and it's not a stats building game. It's a learning and making decisions game. When you die, it should be because you didn't make the right decisions. So all 'levelling up' should really be in the player's head, and not tied to an arbitrarily designed progress track.

Anyway, I'm not sure what we're going to do with this, but I just wanted to mention that I'm not exactly in love with the way we do XP (or research points for that matter )

Maybe we can build a statue or perform a ritual or something to unlock the other characters x3

[Excess]

• Burn down 50 trees, unlocks Willow.
  
• Un-burrow 3 ghosts, unlocks Wendy.
  
• Carry 64 stones simultaneously, unlocks Wolfgang.
  

Off course, for this to work we should be able to see the image of each character before unlocking them, so you have a hint of what needs to be done. Willow is fairly easy to unlock by accident, who didn't burned a forest down? Once you unlock the first one, you can figure out the other ones.

Perhaps every time you die (after having survived 10 days minimum) a new hint is unlocked. One death, one hint.

Death #1 - First hint for Willow.

Death #2 - First hint for Wendy.

Death #3 - First hint for Wolfgang.

Death #4 - First hint for W_____?.

Death #5 - Second hint for Willow.

...and so on...

90% off the players will run to the forums and read how to unlock them, but the 10% that figure it out (either knowingly or by accident) will have his mind blown.

Whatcha' say, Klei?

[Xacktastic]

Either achievement based like people above have mentioned, and this would work well hand in hand with steams achievements, or just generalized experience.

My preference, however, would be a normal experience system with a twist.

First off, you gain experience from almost everything you do, albeit in negligable amounts.

- Cut down a tree, experience.

- Cook meat, experience.

- Kill a spider, a little more experience.

Beyond that, we implement a multiplier system.

As in, every day you survive adds a multiplier to your experience gain.

- Day 1, x0.5 exp.

- Day 10, x0.75 exp.

- Day 20, x1.0 exp.

- Day 50, x1.5 exp.

- Etc.,

Also, experience should either A.) only be allowed over a certain hunger level, or B.) get a boost when at a high hunger level, like 90-100.

This system would mean that the longer you survive, and the better you manage your hunger, the faster you will gain experience. I think this would do a much better job of meshing with the style of the game. Thoughts?

[tastycrayonsattacks]

• Burn down 50 trees, unlocks Willow.
  
• Un-burrow 3 ghosts, unlocks Wendy.
  
• Carry 64 stones simultaneously, unlocks Wolfgang.
  

Off course, for this to work we should be able to see the image of each character before unlocking them, so you have a hint of what needs to be done. Willow is fairly easy to unlock by accident, who didn't burned a forest down? Once you unlock the first one, you can figure out the other ones.

Perhaps every time you die (after having survived 10 days minimum) a new hint is unlocked. One death, one hint.

Death #1 - First hint for Willow.

Death #2 - First hint for Wendy.

Death #3 - First hint for Wolfgang.

Death #4 - First hint for W_____?.

Death #5 - Second hint for Willow.

...and so on...

90% off the players will run to the forums and read how to unlock them, but the 10% that figure it out (either knowingly or by accident) will have his mind blown.

Whatcha' say, Klei?

I really REALLY like this Idea...

[Xacktastic]

I really REALLY like this Idea...

I like it too, but it still sort of puts emphasis on dying, rather than surviving.

I think it would be better if every hint took more and more days of survival to unlock. Ya know?

First at 10.

Next at 25

Next at 50.

So on and so forth.

[tastycrayonsattacks]

I like it too, but it still sort of puts emphasis on dying, rather than surviving.

I think it would be better if every hint took more and more days of survival to unlock. Ya know?

First at 10.

Next at 25

Next at 50.

So on and so forth.

Hmmm... Yes I like this too..

[Excess]

I like it too, but it still sort of puts emphasis on dying, rather than surviving.

Good point. We don't want that.

But the problem here is not the amount of experience you need, but rather the need to die.

My idea was for each character to have 3 hint. First a vague one, then a more direct one and finally one that is rather obvious.

That's 15 exponential "xp levels" you need to create right now. If they keep adding character in the future this will grow very fast.

I would change my suggestion so you don't need to die. For each 15 days you survive, a new hint unlocks, and you are informed so in-game. This way, there's no need to die (except to start over with a different character).

[Xacktastic]

Good point. We don't want that.

But the problem here is not the amount of experience you need, but rather the need to die.

My idea was for each character to have 3 hint. First a vague one, then a more direct one and finally one that is rather obvious.

That's 15 exponential "xp levels" you need to create right now. If they keep adding character in the future this will grow very fast.

I would change my suggestion so you don't need to die. For each 15 days you survive, a new hint unlocks, and you are informed so in-game. This way, there's no need to die (except to start over with a different character).

Ah, I like that a lot more. Kind of a merge of both of our ideas, haha! =)

[Excess]

Ah, I like that a lot more. Kind of a merge of both of our ideas, haha! =)

Exactly, that's why I love debating the suggestions and ideas posted, because we can't always cover all angles or simply miss some potential problems. Also, debate fires up my imagination and "problem-solving" skills.

Thanks for the feedback

PS: Anyone else sees other flaws in what we posted or has a better idea to share/explore? Let's help Klei design a kick-ass character unlocking system!

[Xacktastic]

Maybe we should start a thread in the suggestion area?

[Excess]

Maybe we should start a thread in the suggestion area?

Good idea. I didn't noticed this was the general forum. Thanks

[Xacktastic]

Good idea. I didn't noticed this was the general forum. Thanks

Good job! The post looks good!