Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

babba

100 kW, 200 kW& 500 kW Powerline

Recommended Posts

babba    559

In guilty of playing ONI in Factorio style.

I hereby kindly ask for an 100 kW, 200 kW& 500 kW powerline - From super rare material. Thank you :)

IMHO it would also be great if the player can research and build the AETN coolers, just make them require a lot of research points and make them expensive in terms of rare materials.

image.thumb.png.bcd5fc68a1c98a9ddd61c17036175a2e.png

image.thumb.png.7eb83930cbcf461d85cc5472728a5504.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
babba    559

Hey crypticorb :)

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95053-how-well-does-oni-multithread/?do=findComment&comment=1079798

i7 7700k single core @ 5.4 GHz, delidded cpu,
1.3 kilo aircooler, currently 2 slots ddr4 64gb ram @ 2400 ( runs as well with 32gb ), no pc case

As people have written about 35 MB savegames - I suspect if the game would be played with a ( not existing ) single core cpu with 40 MB Level3 cache, the game would run at insane speed.
Ive noticed with a few different CPU`s that the game strongly depends on cpu caching.
Intel has some + 20MB L3 CPU`s, but they still charge $10000 and have too many cores and often too low base clock or too low turbo clock. But thanks to AMD some more good things will come to consumers over the next few years. The downside with AMD is that their Die designs often make pairs of cores share resources like cache, bus connections etc.
Too many games which work best with one core on high clock, all this multicoring is for the bin in terms of a lot of games.

Very few games like Ashes of the Singularity make use of multiple cores, that game is a technical masterpiece anyway,

To play ONI large scale its not good to have a zillion little rooms and all the automation gadgets.
So if one wants to play with mass showers as an example, just row up 50 showers :) Ive tested that the game runs better if one has 10-50 jet packers flying around, having zero ladders in the map. I noticed that flying in to space or general path finding in to space strongly reduces game speed.

ONI scales exactly to this list, so the game runs best on the top 5, 10 or 20 fastest single thread cpu`s. So one can make a tradeoff between price and ONI FPS :D
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

For budget folks playing ONI currently the Intel Core i3-7350K @ 4.20GHz is good value, as it has a high base clock. Older i3 like the 6100 are similar good.

At the bottom is a screenshot of my beloved mushroom farm, which I built with debug mode. The farm is 4 screens wide, the screenshot shows 1 screen. I dont do food anymore in the game, it just eats too much FPS. I ran out of Slime, the map +200 natural printed dupes took me 2000 cycles. Since then its only debug for me, to frustrating to reach dead ends in the game, need to be able to trade resources...I can recommend to play with 4 times the map size, much more fun :)

1.png

2.png

 

ONI Max Load.png

mushroom farm.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sasza22    2393
10 hours ago, babba said:

I hereby kindly ask for an 100 kW, 200 kW& 500 kW powerline

Fow about insulated wires made from refiend metal and plastic. Would be high tier so could support more load.

Eventually they could add a superconductor (electrical not heat) that can support unlimited wattage. This one would require stuff from space though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
D.L.S.    69

There is no difference between Heavi-Watt Wire and Heavi Conductive Wire, both 20kW, second should be 50kW i guess.

But i dont think we need more, without exploits and sandbox mode it would be hard to maintain > 100kW of power production, fuels are renewable but not that fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
babba    559
3 hours ago, D.L.S. said:

..."But i dont think we need more, without exploits and sandbox mode it would be hard to maintain > 100kW of power production, fuels are renewable but not that fast."

2

Yes, thats true and a valid point. If the game does not enable to have more things ( allowing more geysirs, more volcanoes and so on @ world generation ), then no larger carriers of electricity, gas & fluids are needed.

However, from my point of view that is like limiting the player to 500k inhabitants in Cities Skylines ( al la dumbing the last Simcity game down, creating a space and simulation limit and thereby killing the Simcity series ) or scrapping all advanced tech in Factorio a la fictional "Lets remove air drones from Factorio, they take too much additional cpu load". Factorio development would have ended at some point with that attitude. They took the approach to constantly perform load optimization instead of cutting existing gameplay elements, just like it was done by the developers of Prison Architect.

ONI`s map size had been reduced to 25% of size to cater for people complaining about low FPS. So some players like me have changed some values to play on the original much larger map size. Wherever else great features Klei will remove, players like me have to resort to some mods or hacks to enable those things which had been in the game. IMHO a much better solution would be to allow the original map size option before world generation, with some text information that it will create more processing load and to also allow us to be able to spawn much more things on map generation.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
D.L.S.    69

I dont think devs will increase map size. More realistic what we can expect is ability to move onto another asteroid(mankind style: deplete all resources on one place and move to another).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
babba    559

The forum users which had requested such things as to be able to transport higher capacity gas, have higher capacity storage compactors etc. and for power hungry players like me getting 100 kW, 200 kW& 500 kW Powerline`s...That would be fine :)

Digging fun:

image.thumb.png.f7edc2dcde09809807b33824d5c320e5.png

image.thumb.png.dcb8c427fd014a84688487d7c543dd13.png

image.thumb.png.36d1b419ccaaa8cafb884e6a71b6c61d.png

ONI is pure beauty, its just amazing fun :)

image.thumb.png.de9c36c66ad1d91064ba07714829bc78.png

Original map size 4x :

123.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sasza22    2393
3 hours ago, D.L.S. said:

I dont think devs will increase map size.

They could leave an option for it. they could just leave a warning note it may cause lag to do so. In a few years computers will handle it much better. Not to mention possible performance work that can be done.

Personally i`d prefer if the map looped around. It wouldn`t give you a claustrophobic feeling and would fit nice with the asteroid theme.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tekky    42

I really like Factorio's way of dealing with maps (when playing in sandbox mode, not campaign). The map automatically expands whenever you reach the edge of the map. That way, you have full freedom and the game world feels open.

However, I'm afraid that this would not work in ONI, since the larger the map, the more calculation work must be done by the computer. For example, ONI will have to always update all thermal values, even in unused parts of the map. This is not a problem in Factorio, as there are no calculations that must be done in unused parts of the map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
babba    559

In ONI debug I love that its possible to zoom out far. Factorio is also cool, I once had 100 trains with 20 wagons each riding across the map transporting resources. Right now Im connecting 8 toilets with 30 pumps, the toilets are 20 screens away at the top of the map. An atomic reactor would be handy... Hopefully, some crashes will be fixed, then I can switch to the new update and remove all ladders in the game. I really hope that someday resource trading or mass production of water/oil/slime etc. is possible in a "Normal game", with more spawn options on map generation. I really miss challenges like major accidents or problems, adding sparks/fire/combustion/explosions/hazard substance reactions would make my day ! Happy ONI everyone :)

image.thumb.png.70449505f3571de1c94e7dac4faf44f9.pngimage.thumb.png.417883905da58734b81bd5a9e36ff50e.pngimage.thumb.png.5a32800bc3e9a9050c20134d8aeefc87.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
D.L.S.    69

This game scale is just too small for you, in factorio we play on bigger scale.

How did you made map x4? it looks fun.

 

Also i believe devs could save some cpu time if move temperature calculations on gpu, game is 2d and not much complex shaders in use, so gpu can work for world simulation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
babba    559

Here my friend, you only need to change a few values - As in the description here:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1285243247&searchtext=4+times

OxygenNotIncluded\OxygenNotIncluded_Data\StreamingAssets\worldgen\worlds
in "Default.yaml"
X: 512
Y: 768

I saw a comment where someone is writing about generating a smaller map, this could be handy for people with a slow cpu.

 

Dr. Fred`s Nuke-Test-Chamber, take that Factorio !

image.thumb.png.f959c5d56a7af2d969c9a7a02787c783.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Madbro    542

Awesome base :) ;

by the way, superconducting wires that are like yours are just in need, you are right. Especially for large-scale cooling plants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TG pro    225
On 10/15/2018 at 6:36 AM, babba said:

Hey crypticorb :)

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95053-how-well-does-oni-multithread/?do=findComment&comment=1079798

i7 7700k single core @ 5.4 GHz, delidded cpu,
1.3 kilo aircooler, currently 2 slots ddr4 64gb ram @ 2400 ( runs as well with 32gb ), no pc case

As people have written about 35 MB savegames - I suspect if the game would be played with a ( not existing ) single core cpu with 40 MB Level3 cache, the game would run at insane speed.
Ive noticed with a few different CPU`s that the game strongly depends on cpu caching.
Intel has some + 20MB L3 CPU`s, but they still charge $10000 and have too many cores and often too low base clock or too low turbo clock. But thanks to AMD some more good things will come to consumers over the next few years. The downside with AMD is that their Die designs often make pairs of cores share resources like cache, bus connections etc.
Too many games which work best with one core on high clock, all this multicoring is for the bin in terms of a lot of games.

Very few games like Ashes of the Singularity make use of multiple cores, that game is a technical masterpiece anyway,

To play ONI large scale its not good to have a zillion little rooms and all the automation gadgets.
So if one wants to play with mass showers as an example, just row up 50 showers :) Ive tested that the game runs better if one has 10-50 jet packers flying around, having zero ladders in the map. I noticed that flying in to space or general path finding in to space strongly reduces game speed.

ONI scales exactly to this list, so the game runs best on the top 5, 10 or 20 fastest single thread cpu`s. So one can make a tradeoff between price and ONI FPS :D
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

For budget folks playing ONI currently the Intel Core i3-7350K @ 4.20GHz is good value, as it has a high base clock. Older i3 like the 6100 are similar good.

At the bottom is a screenshot of my beloved mushroom farm, which I built with debug mode. The farm is 4 screens wide, the screenshot shows 1 screen. I dont do food anymore in the game, it just eats too much FPS. I ran out of Slime, the map +200 natural printed dupes took me 2000 cycles. Since then its only debug for me, to frustrating to reach dead ends in the game, need to be able to trade resources...I can recommend to play with 4 times the map size, much more fun :)

1.png

2.png

 

ONI Max Load.png

mushroom farm.png

Yeah, like you haven't said that a thousand times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
babba    559

Hihihihi 10 FPS is still better than 1 or 0.1 FPS :D

Getting down to 0.1 is always possible in ONI with any savegame, the above mushroom farm screenshot is actually from the time where I was playing on the current standard size map of ONI - I now play on maps of the original size ( 4x bigger ). Happy ONI everyone :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oozinator    2570
2 hours ago, babba said:

Hihihihi 10 FPS is still better than 1 or 0.1 FPS :D

Getting down to 0.1 is always possible in ONI with any savegame, the above mushroom farm screenshot is actually from the time where I was playing on the current standard size map of ONI - I now play on maps of the original size ( 4x bigger ). Happy ONI everyone :)

For me it's a pain, when i can not play at triplespeed <25FPS and it seems to be some for ONI too.
I came across some "data hiccups" when frames dropped(temp change not right / sensor trigger delay or similar stuff).

I did OC my proc to test performance increase in singlecore games like oni, but got similar results like the other forum member with OC result. Not worth the energy bill.
How many FPS with your quadruplemegamultiultrabase?
image.thumb.png.71dbbbb3f6bb0f55b8b81101961b11f8.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
babba    559

Hey Oozinator ...I love that Klei users nearly always have either cute or cool names :)

"How many FPS with your quadruplemegamultiultrabase?"

> Well the area to the space, at the top of our maps, really has been bolted on by Klei. As soon there is some pathfinding interaction between the space and the rest of the map there can be really big slowdowns/lag spikes. So hopefully they will get the space area better integrated in to the rest of the map, in terms of pathfinding.

> Next on my list is to remove all ladders, the last beta patch made my savegame run stable - I think I was suffering the "Mole" crash. So hopefully I can get my dupes to fly to bed, where every placed bed has got sufficient spacing gaps for the jetpacks to fly through.

> Before I was playing in debug mode, running a normal game, I found it frustrating to have 20 - 200 storage compactors, with all the dupes running around and myself messing with storage compactor priorities. I was amazed back then when I read in the forum and discovered that the material simulation was running within every single 20 ton compactor.

Klei could make the decision to switch off the simulation of all the materials within every compactor. I dont know how much work it would be. I dont play with compactors anymore, they pull too much cpu as soon something is inside them, especially if they contain a lot of different materials.

Klei could maybe also improve the FPS if they would decide to just delete anything laying around which has not been picked up in the last 10 cycles. This delete process check could happen at a new cycle, where we all have a lag delay anyway. Currently I manually delete stuff laying around every now and then with the debug editor.

For power players it may be an improvement to have higher loaded gas & liquid pipes. I think it would make some players stop to lay down 10 or 20 parallel lines of piping.

If Klei autmatically puts down direction-vales on junctions where fluids or gas dont know where to go ( when they start bouncing back and forth within a pipe ) would also help to get a little bit more fps. Some players just build along without knowing, noticing or bothering. It all adds up to the FPS drag to the bottom.

It would be great if Klei can look in to the green colored lines above in my text, it may result in an good FPS increase for players :confused:

Need to make a coffee, happy ONI everyone :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites