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Anti Entropy Thermo-Nullifier What i did Wrong ?


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Hello Guys,

I Need your help with my Anti Entropy Thermo-Nullifier, as you can see form the pictures in attach it doesn't seems to work properly, Hydrogen is supplied and all the gas line is full of it. https://imgur.com/a/AFhkP19

I ran a second  gas line through it with Hydrogen  in order to cool down my clean water tank in the middle of my base, it works but i would like to have a more cooler  hydrogen output  in order to maximize the effect.

The actual Hydrogen out temp is -7/9 C. that to be hones it's a quite too "hot" for me. Nullifier  should cool down gases into liquids and here it's hard to keep gases below 0 C. :?

A quite more details

-Room filled up with Hydrogen

-Tempshift Plate build in Copper/Gold and Wolframite.

-Radiant Gas pipe Mainly in Iron and small parts in Wolframite.

-Metal tiles are a temporary experiment

Thanks for your help !

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Your thermal overlay shows all the places the cold from the nullifier is leaking out into the environment.  You want the nullifier surrounded by insulated tiles all the way around so that no cold leaks out into the environment surrounding it.  The water lock is fine to keep hydrogen in, but you need an air lock with vacuum to keep the cold in, you are leaking cold all the way down that long corridor.   As soon as the radiant pipes leave the "cold" room, they need to switch to insulated pipes as well so that you keep all that cold for the water tank and avoid it heating up along the way.   

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One way to get dupes in & out with no heat transfer is to make your entryway a vacuum chamber with two liquid locks. Better yet, use a vacuum chamber with a transit tube passing through it. Your inner liquid lock can freeze - a transit tube can't.

to do what @Denisetwin is talking about just surround the whole area with 2 tiles thick of insulated tile. Right now your AETN is spending a lot of its energy on the cold biome it's in. You want all that energy to go into your heat exchanger instead.

But one thing you have to think about. The AETN can only produce so much cooling, and it's really not as much as you might hope (what is it 12 wheezeworts?). If you load it too heavily you will get a warmer output than you want.

What to do if you insulate it and you're still not getting enough cooling? Make the hydrogen chamber bigger, start adding wheezeworts, and make sure your H2 pressure is high enough to get max use of wheezeworts. (you have to pump enough H2 in for all pockets of vacuum at the base of wheezeworts to go away)

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4 hours ago, Alessio277 said:

Hello Guys,

I Need your help with my Anti Entropy Thermo-Nullifier, as you can see form the pictures in attach it doesn't seems to work properly, Hydrogen is supplied and all the gas line is full of it. https://imgur.com/a/AFhkP19

I ran a second  gas line through it with Hydrogen  in order to cool down my clean water tank in the middle of my base, it works but i would like to have a more cooler  hydrogen output  in order to maximize the effect.

The actual Hydrogen out temp is -7/9 C. that to be hones it's a quite too "hot" for me. Nullifier  should cool down gases into liquids and here it's hard to keep gases below 0 C. :?

A quite more details

-Room filled up with Hydrogen

-Tempshift Plate build in Copper/Gold and Wolframite.

-Radiant Gas pipe Mainly in Iron and small parts in Wolframite.

-Metal tiles are a temporary experiment

Thanks for your help !

The primary problem is that your AETN is not isolated. Your radiant pipes are outside the cooling chamber, and the metal tiles are bleeding heat out of the chamber as well. There are a few things that need fixing to make it work.

  1. Deconstruct the tiles under the AETN and replace them with insulated tiles. The metal tiles aren't helping either.
  2. Replace ALL the radiant/normal pipes that are part of the cooling loop with insulated pipes. The only radiant pipes should be inside the chamber, and where you want cooling distributed.
  3. Get rid of the liquid lock. Those are great at keeping high pressure gasses in, but not heat. Replace it with 3 doors arranged like this:

vacuum_door.thumb.png.bd34e6dc4210650554479e56cd739bf4.png

This system is fantastic at keeping temperatures isolated. When a dupe steps on the weight sensor, it bumps the sensor above 200kg, which will quickly close and reopen the door, destroying the gas and creating a vacuum. You can use the liquid lock with this to keep gas pressure, but once the system is set up you shouldn't ever need to go in or out.

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10 hours ago, avc15 said:

But one thing you have to think about. The AETN can only produce so much cooling, and it's really not as much as you might hope (what is it 12 wheezeworts?). If you load it too heavily you will get a warmer output than you want.

It's 80 kDTU, so 6,66 Wheezewort in hydrogen.

As a rough estimate: 10 tiles of water would take 1 cycle to go down 1°C when cooled by an efficiently setup AETN.

Or if you are trying to cool down Sieve water from 40 to 20, AETN will cool down 1kg/s of water 40->21°C.

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16 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

It is far easier to "blow" the Hydrogen over the ATEN like this:

That uses power... IMO better to use a closed loop with radiant pipes which once setup will not require pumping (can use liquid or gas).

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18 minutes ago, thejams said:

That uses power... IMO better to use a closed loop with radiant pipes which once setup will not require pumping (can use liquid or gas).

I've been really enjoying using reservoirs for this purpose.  Using simple automation, temp sensors and shut-off valves it's pretty easy to build cooling loops that can handle flexible loads. 

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23 hours ago, crypticorb said:

The primary problem is that your AETN is not isolated. Your radiant pipes are outside the cooling chamber, and the metal tiles are bleeding heat out of the chamber as well. There are a few things that need fixing to make it work.

  1. Deconstruct the tiles under the AETN and replace them with insulated tiles. The metal tiles aren't helping either.
  2. Replace ALL the radiant/normal pipes that are part of the cooling loop with insulated pipes. The only radiant pipes should be inside the chamber, and where you want cooling distributed.
  3. Get rid of the liquid lock. Those are great at keeping high pressure gasses in, but not heat. Replace it with 3 doors arranged like this:

vacuum_door.thumb.png.bd34e6dc4210650554479e56cd739bf4.png

This system is fantastic at keeping temperatures isolated. When a dupe steps on the weight sensor, it bumps the sensor above 200kg, which will quickly close and reopen the door, destroying the gas and creating a vacuum. You can use the liquid lock with this to keep gas pressure, but once the system is set up you shouldn't ever need to go in or out.

On 14/10/2018 at 8:20 PM, Denisetwin said:

Your thermal overlay shows all the places the cold from the nullifier is leaking out into the environment.  You want the nullifier surrounded by insulated tiles all the way around so that no cold leaks out into the environment surrounding it.  The water lock is fine to keep hydrogen in, but you need an air lock with vacuum to keep the cold in, you are leaking cold all the way down that long corridor.   As soon as the radiant pipes leave the "cold" room, they need to switch to insulated pipes as well so that you keep all that cold for the water tank and avoid it heating up along the way.   

 

Thanks to the precious advice, however, now it reaches a temperature of -24/27 C no more. Any efficient template (to use in real game) to reach the lower (or nearest) temperature with this machine ? I had 3 of this machines in game and a lot of hot temperature to dissipate.

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1 hour ago, Alessio277 said:

Thanks to the precious advice, however, now it reaches a temperature of -24/27 C no more. Any efficient template (to use in real game) to reach the lower (or nearest) temperature with this machine ? I had 3 of this machines in game and a lot of hot temperature to dissipate.

Make sure you have pure hydrogen in the room. The AETN will only operate if the gasses surrounding it aren't approaching their condensation point, even if it's just one pocket of it. If you have any CO2 or chlorine in the room, the AETN will seize up just before the gas reaches -34.6 for chlorine. Hydrogen condensation point is pretty close to absolute zero (-252.2), and is the most ideal for conductivity.

This is my current setup for my AETN. All pipes in the cooling room are wolframite radiant pipes, and anything outside of that is insulated igneous rock pipes. The entire room is pure hydrogen. I'm using a variant of the vacuum lock I showed you, with a tiny drop of petroleum at the door. This has perfect vacuum insulation AND zero gas leaking out.

AETN.png

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11 hours ago, thejams said:

That uses power... IMO better to use a closed loop with radiant pipes which once setup will not require pumping (can use liquid or gas).

It does. If that is a concern, you need some other design. It is not for me at the moment, I have no power problems and then this probides a simple end reliable solution. 

Come to think of it, could a zero-power loop be constructed with two storage tanks as well? That may be easier to set up.

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18 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Come to think of it, could a zero-power loop be constructed with two storage tanks as well? That may be easier to set up.

Yep. As long as you have at least 1 input/output mechanism (brisge, reservoir, valve, etc) on the loop, it pretty much runs itself. 

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On 16/10/2018 at 1:33 AM, crypticorb said:

Make sure you have pure hydrogen in the room. The AETN will only operate if the gasses surrounding it aren't approaching their condensation point, even if it's just one pocket of it. If you have any CO2 or chlorine in the room, the AETN will seize up just before the gas reaches -34.6 for chlorine. Hydrogen condensation point is pretty close to absolute zero (-252.2), and is the most ideal for conductivity.

This is my current setup for my AETN. All pipes in the cooling room are wolframite radiant pipes, and anything outside of that is insulated igneous rock pipes. The entire room is pure hydrogen. I'm using a variant of the vacuum lock I showed you, with a tiny drop of petroleum at the door. This has perfect vacuum insulation AND zero gas leaking out.

AETN.png

I builded exactly the same room, but it's seem take still too long for cool down to the minimum temp.

Do someone have an alternative template/way to cool down quickly gases or liquids ?

P.s. also using electricity

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26 minutes ago, Alessio277 said:

I builded exactly the same room, but it's seem take still too long for cool down to the minimum temp.

Do someone have an alternative template/way to cool down quickly gases or liquids ?

P.s. also using electricity

Use the thermo-regulators. They cool the gas passing through them by about 15oC, and radiate that heat into their surroundings. If you drip polluted water over them, you can easily keep them cool. They are inefficient and power hungry, but can directly cool the gas.

The better way is to use aquatuners. With crude oil, petroleum, or supercoolant, you immerse the aquatuner in your pit of polluted water and run the cooled liquid through granite/radiant pipes where you want to cool gas. This is initially more power hungry, but FAR more efficient than thermo-regulators, as using liquid to cool gas is faster and more efficient. After the gas is cooled to the desired temperature, use automation with a shutoff valve to only run the aquatuner on demand. This will keep the power usage far, far below the same number of thermo-regulators.

A tip: use temp-shift plates. Make them out of diamond, as it's the best at heat transfer, and can help spread heat across rooms.

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