Gas filter using logic: 10W and 85 Refined Metal

[Lilalaunekuh]

19 minutes ago, martosss said:

my filter will save him exactly 12 fold of electricity on that system.

Ok if the guys was chaining 120W filters he used way more than 12times the energy of an optimal system

 

1 minute ago, Cilya said:

Oh, the gas shutoff only consumes electricity when there is gas going through it ?

Yes

=> You can build a filter for all gases/liquids using less than 10W in total.

(If you sort your ouputs you can minimize the energy usage even further, because the last sorted ouput will never need a shut off

=> If your got a filter with 80% of one substance you can reduce your power usage by 80%)

[Cilya]

If you don't use a shutoff for the last output, then how do you prevent problems in case of power down ?

[Lilalaunekuh]

I controll my pumps with automation to turn them of in the rare case of some power shortage

(A smart battery can controll the pumps to turn them off if power level are critical)

[martosss]

I think if you use valves and mechanical filters you might achieve energy free filtering ... 1 valve to limit input to 999, then mechanical filter with storage tank for each gas .. easy lol after reading this forum for a while the game is starting to look easier and easier. Knowledge is power!

[Lilalaunekuh]

29 minutes ago, martosss said:

I think if you use valves and mechanical filters you might achieve energy free filtering

There are many ways to achiev energy free filtering (But the topic was gas filer using logic)

You can filter liquids just by placing some drops of your wanted liquid in the right spots and letting a valve dump everything there^^

[martosss]

Here's some more info on the topic, you can use a chain of these filters to do the work without any energy. However, it needs some tinkering until you set it up. Up to now I didn't need it so I haven't implemented such a system - my worries are getting enough O-s for the Dupes. After I'm done with that I'll worry about the other letters. Besides, you can always dump the excess somewhere and forget about it, temporarily

[Megouski]

Hmm looks like an exploit to me. ..

 

 

Just kidding 

 

[The Flying Fox]

6 hours ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Ok if the guys was chaining 120W filters he used way more than 12times the energy of an optimal system

 

Yes

=> You can build a filter for all gases/liquids using less than 10W in total.

(If you sort your ouputs you can minimize the energy usage even further, because the last sorted ouput will never need a shut off

=> If your got a filter with 80% of one substance you can reduce your power usage by 80%)

The funny thing about this is that the shutoff valves don't actually consume power currently.  Despite what they say on the tin.  I found this out some ages ago and made a bug report but Klei never fixed it.  The only thing that shut-off valves do is detect if the system they're connected to has power or not, but they don't consume any joules from it when packets pass through them.  You can see this for yourself in the 'power consumer' display.  The shut-off valves never change from '0W /10W' to 10W / 10W'.  

 

So the reality is currently, for the moment, these systems with a shut-off valve and element sensors require just as much power as mechanical filters, which is zero.  

 

But yeah, a loop of these things works pretty well.

 

Note the inputs are on the top and the bottom using bridges with a bridge behind them.  If the loop is full, then the inputs can't dump anymore packets in and, since there's no output from the loop besides the shut-off valves themselves, it all has to get sorted.  A brief power drop isn't going to cause an issue.  The only problem would be a backed up output, but that would just clog it until you fix it and then it'll start sorting again.

[Megouski]

This sounds like what I'll use. Mechanical values are great but their layer of stability is thin. This solution has a much thicker reliability layer while still using little to no energy. I think it is balanced (mechanical too) because they both encourage the player to be smarter about design, and rewards the smart player with power efficiencies. 

[Lilalaunekuh]

11 minutes ago, The Flying Fox said:

So the reality is currently, for the moment, these systems with a shut-off valve and element sensors require just as much power as mechanical filters, which is zero.  

Pick your poison:

- Minor throughput reduction (a small amount needs to be kept inside the loop)  => mechanical filters

- Reliable power grid (a smart battery can provide a backup for up to 50 cycles) => logic based filters

- High power consumption                                                                                     => gas/liquid filter (building^^)

[Alex_D]

8 hours ago, martosss said:

Here's some more info on the topic, you can use a chain of these filters to do the work without any energy. However, it needs some tinkering until you set it up. Up to now I didn't need it so I haven't implemented such a system - my worries are getting enough O-s for the Dupes. After I'm done with that I'll worry about the other letters. Besides, you can always dump the excess somewhere and forget about it, temporarily

My version of mechanical filters:

The walls nor pipes need not to be insulated. The secret is to properly prime the system. A regular gas filter, which later can be deconstructed, helps with this task. The steps to build this mechanical gas filter room roughly are:

1. Build everything but do not flood it yet. Use the old trick of building a liquid/gas pipe as a dot and when ready connect the dots to allow the flow.

2. The above includes the gas pipes.

3. When everything is built and the water locks are flooded, activate the gas pumps to empty the storage rooms to a vacuum. This is fast. Pays off to have auto clocks connected to these pumps.

For priming the 1st filter (and any subsequent filter):

Spoiler

1. Connect the dots of the first loop, except for the exhaust of the filtered gas (valve white square). Also do not connect yet the unfiltered gas exhaust yet.

2. Release the pure gas into the pipe. Let that gas loop around for a few seconds. Check if it says 1 gr/s flow on all gas pipes. It's good if some of that gas backs up the pipe.

3. Connect the filtered gas output dot, so the filter can release its gas into the chamber. Let it release until the backup clears up.

4. Connect the dot of the filtered gas exhaust to the next filter.

5. Repeat process with another gas. If done correctly any gas dot in a pipe will carry on down the pipe until it reaches its corresponding filter.

The typical room measures 19 squares inside, and takes two stories (4 squares high each). It can be reduced to less, or expanded to more. It holds room for the six most common gasses: oxygen, polluted oxygen, CO2, chlorine, hydrogen, natural gas. Steam gas is not included as it may damage the pipes when condensates.

This is one of the first facilities I build in each of my bases. It allows me to collect excess gasses (CO2 from coal or nat gas gens, or from any other vent) and hoard all gasses for later use.

[martosss]

@Alex_D, I'd like to avoid the vent exploit(we can all agree that it is an exploit, right?) that allows you to use normal vents instead of pressurized ones. That means you can build this room much later in the game only when you have plastic available... or it has to be much bigger, especially for O2, P.O2 and CO2.

6 hours ago, Megouski said:

Mechanical values are great but their layer of stability is thin. This solution has a much thicker reliability layer while still using little to no energy.

Apart from the tedious setup process, mechanical filters are actually even more reliable - no power required.

[TLW]

On 7/9/2018 at 6:21 PM, Lilalaunekuh said:

Pick your poison:

- Minor throughput reduction (a small amount needs to be kept inside the loop)  => mechanical filters

There's a variation of the mechanical gas filter that allows up to 1000 full-sized packets of the same gas in a row to be filtered at throughput.

(Essentially, you have two bridges into the loop, the input and the loop being countercurrent. Each packet ends up with 999g output directly, and 1g stored temporarily. As soon as the input has a packet of a different gas, or a smaller packet, this stored gas is output.)