Santhor Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Currently i feel the usefulness of showers pretty...lacking? Honestly i admit i am actually not building any showers for my duplicants to not waste precious time of them , but i actually do feel it is wrong somehow, or why do showers have been implemented then? Now my suggestion would be make they a little bit more mandatory for duplicants while not making them extremely over important. My solution would be as follow: If a duplicant is not showering for more then one cycle, let the the natural immun system be surpressed. I.e. no basic +15/immunity regen/per cycle until he showers again. That doesnt makes any immediate pressure and yes you _could_ still ignore showering alltogether if you would manage to life totally germ-free, however the smallest presence of germs would slowly eat through your duplicants immunity and would make them sooner or later sick or eating through lots of vitamin pills - a shower would be then much more preferable! For me that would upgrade the usefullness from showers for not feeling totally wasted time of your duplicants and would make sense for me. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 That would be harsh on miserable immune systems because then it would be a -15% immunity unless all of your dupes shower. I certainly think showers should have a benefit. If there were a change in this vein, I would rather have it be that existing germs are more dangerous on grimy dupes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuch Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Eventualy the 'grimy' status effect will do something. It just hasn't been implemented yet.(one assume from the name it will likely impact both immune system and stress) And given how bad duplicants are at prioritizing things right now up to the point they'd rather take a shower than seek food when starving and other stupidity, I'm okay with shower still being both useless and unnecessary so i dn't have to build them for now.. (ll i guess they are a good source of water to polluted water if needed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santhor Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share Posted June 24, 2018 7 hours ago, Zarquan said: That would be harsh on miserable immune systems because then it would be a -15% immunity unless all of your dupes shower. I certainly think showers should have a benefit. If there were a change in this vein, I would rather have it be that existing germs are more dangerous on grimy dupes. It wouldnt however actively reduce your immune system, it would just stop the regeneration (so germs become more of a threat if you dont shower). As dupes tend anyway to shower if there is one available it wouldnt change much i guess, except you couldnt ignore showers as easily like now or at least the time would feel less wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Just now, Santhor said: It wouldnt however actively reduce your immune system, it would just stop the regeneration (so germs become more of a threat if you dont shower). As dupes tend anyway to shower if there is one available it wouldnt change much i guess, except you couldnt ignore showers as easily like now or at least the time would feel less wasted. It would actively reduce the immune system on miserable because miserable is already -15%. Another -15% would kill miserable dupes extremely fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vovik Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 How about sinks just remove not all germs? I dont understand how all surface germs ger removed by washing hands and face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy-Anemic Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 On 6/24/2018 at 11:47 AM, vovik said: How about sinks just remove not all germs? I dont understand how all surface germs ger removed by washing hands and face. Considering how there's "food spoiling germs" that don't show up at all in the overlay with the other germs, you can just head-canon it away by saying the interface is only showing up germs where they could possibly transmit to other surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santhor Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 On 24.6.2018 at 6:23 AM, Zarquan said: It would actively reduce the immune system on miserable because miserable is already -15%. Another -15% would kill miserable dupes extremely fast. Thats what i meant - it actually shouldnt debuff your dupe, just stop the natural immunity regeneration. So it never drops under 0% change no matter what before your basic natural immunity generation was(+8%/per cycle goes to 0% and same for +15%/cycle goes same to 0% for example). That way it would not infect any dupe by itself, just germs would become way more riskier (IF not showering). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 25 minutes ago, Santhor said: Thats what i meant - it actually shouldnt debuff your dupe, just stop the natural immunity regeneration. So it never drops under 0% change no matter what before your basic natural immunity generation was(+8%/per cycle goes to 0% and same for +15%/cycle goes same to 0% for example). That way it would not infect any dupe by itself, just germs would become way more riskier (IF not showering). The thing is that when you "turn off" natural immunity regen, that means that being a duplicant immunity gain becomes 0. That means that the -15% immunity from miserable isn't countered by the duplicant's natural immunity regen, meaning you would have a -15% net immunity change per cycle. Miserable is like all of your dupes having enough germs to almost reduce their immunity, but not quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicearific Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 5 hours ago, Zarquan said: The thing is that when you "turn off" natural immunity regen, that means that being a duplicant immunity gain becomes 0. That means that the -15% immunity from miserable isn't countered by the duplicant's natural immunity regen, meaning you would have a -15% net immunity change per cycle. Miserable is like all of your dupes having enough germs to almost reduce their immunity, but not quite. You're still suppressing an immune system. A dupe with even -1% in germs would be getting sick, instead of a dupe that requires -16%. That's the difference between 'my dupe can go into the plague-ridden area for a few cycles before I have to limit them' and 'they goddamn better have an exosuit if they're exiting the base'. Also related, if they do implement things that make showers required, they need to also update showers so dupes don't feel the need to use them 9172 times a cycle. Nevermind the actual planned bad-stuff like heat and (depending on viewpoint) water->polluted water, you also have to remember that dupes like to take showers as often as they're allowed to. If I'm expected to give dupes showers, I need to be able to control how often they're going to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he77789 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 No they only shower when they are wet or grimy as the shower removes those debuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Juicearific said: You're still suppressing an immune system. A dupe with even -1% in germs would be getting sick, instead of a dupe that requires -16%. That's the difference between 'my dupe can go into the plague-ridden area for a few cycles before I have to limit them' and 'they goddamn better have an exosuit if they're exiting the base'. Also related, if they do implement things that make showers required, they need to also update showers so dupes don't feel the need to use them 9172 times a cycle. Nevermind the actual planned bad-stuff like heat and (depending on viewpoint) water->polluted water, you also have to remember that dupes like to take showers as often as they're allowed to. If I'm expected to give dupes showers, I need to be able to control how often they're going to do it. I personally don't want the lack of shower to suppress the immune system in this way because it would make miserable almost unplayable on miserable immune systems. In less than 8 cycles, all of your non-germ resistant dupes would have 0% immunity. I would rather have germs be more dangerous on grimy dupes, like they multiply on the surface of the dupe and the germs spread more. 2 hours ago, he77789 said: No they only shower when they are wet or grimy as the shower removes those debuff. Yes, showers remove the soggy feet and sopping wet debuffs, but even on fatalistic I would rather take the occasional hit to stress (because no waterlock is accessible without an exosuit) than have all of my dupes shower every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpalerWrG Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I think some kind of Body Odor debuff makes more sense, makes them stressed AND folks near them. Showering could remove external germs as well, far more then any of the hand-stations. But immune suppression doesn't really make sense, showers are external cleaning, immunity is about internal germs. If anything should drop immunity it is stress, we all know that stress actually dose this and it would make stress management much more meaningful and disease more of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santhor Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 12 hours ago, Zarquan said: I would rather have germs be more dangerous on grimy dupes, like they multiply on the surface of the dupe and the germs spread more. That wouldnt be much of a difference for me, if the germs reduce your immune system faster or you stop gaining natural immunity(pills would still give) would make no difference, the overall point would be just to make showers not worthless, there shouldnt be a easy way to completely skip them. If you gain no immunity on miserable you'd still have no trouble if you shower your dupes and your immunity regen would be as normal, OR watch for not catching ANY germs (and you're willingly playing hardest mode so you shouldnt expect it being easy then to catch no germs). 10 hours ago, ImpalerWrG said: I think some kind of Body Odor debuff makes more sense, makes them stressed AND folks near them. Showering could remove external germs as well, far more then any of the hand-stations. But immune suppression doesn't really make sense, showers are external cleaning, immunity is about internal germs. If anything should drop immunity it is stress, we all know that stress actually dose this and it would make stress management much more meaningful and disease more of an issue. That would surely also improve a little bit the showers but i guess i would still need no showers cause stress is really no trouble for my dupes even if they get an additional debuff of stress except the debuff is really high (which would be out the line a bit), but honestly i can see that would be at least for not experienced players then making showers useful, currently my only suggestion to all is not build showers at all, that cant be the idea about or? Finally I do still like an idea to skip showering with advanced gameplay (ie if no germs are there, you need no showers) but as said it should be a reward and not easy to achieve. Its always good (for me) when you get rewarded for good/advanced planning(thats why i still miss the good old agricultural values where you could get better harvests). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoma_Nosme Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 The main problem with showers is that dupes tend to shower all the time. I would suggest a "germ meter"-scale like in disinfect. Where you can set how filthy they have to get before they go shower. I like the idea as well that the higher the germ count the lower the immunity should get or less recovery of immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Right now showers are just good for converting water to polluted water since dupes can spend half their life in the shower....painfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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